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Old 09-16-2012, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
13,026 posts, read 7,196,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latina7 View Post
Did you report this to Animal Protection in the County, or the ASPCA? Or to animal rights' group?
I wanted to but there was no address and finding the farm again would have been next to impossible. We were taken by carriage and every farm looks alike. I don't think I could have found my way back if I wanted to. On the way to the farm I was more focused on the poor horse and encouraging the driver to let it go at it's own pace. I didn't pay much attention to streets or land marks. It was getting dark on the way back. It still haunts me to this day, especially leaving this little white kitten behind that I carried around the whole time we were there
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Old 09-16-2012, 04:34 PM
 
1,253 posts, read 1,779,935 times
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Originally Posted by beltrams View Post
I happened across an early review of Breaking Amish so I made a point to tune into the show when it aired.

I thought it was a very poorly edited, incoherent piece of junk.

Frankly, there have been a few of these Amish-meet-the-"real"-world shows and I think they all suffer from the same problem. I posted this to some friends recently who had asked me what I thought of the Amish situation:

"Having some casual knowledge of one of the Aroostook County, Maine Amish settlements and people, I cannot help but be repulsed by the likes of these shows. In this latest one, the show takes 4 Amish young people and one Mennonite woman and brings them to NYC, where according to the review I read they freak out at the operation of an ATM, going to strip clubs and bars, even getting overtaken by the sight of Grand Central Station (never mind the fact that Amish regularly patronize Amtrak around the country and are far from strangers in such places.)
I think what all these shows miss is that Amish life is NOT about the absence of TV or an SUV in the driveway, but rather about a strict devotion to following the teachings of Christ, and living in a way that cares about other people, while humbling one's own person-hood (which is a very worthy goal regardless of what one thinks about the divinity of Christ.) Yes, Amish keep people in very traditional roles, such as male wage earners and women as farm/housewives and of course these kinds of shows poke fun at that. But what bothers me is that these shows don't seem to examine those ways in order to free Amish people from their strict roles and life of drudgery sans automobiles and Internet connections. Rather, I think these shows accept the fact that most Amish are a bit more virtuous and good than we non-Amish are - that by and large they treat others better than we the "English" do and that these shows know that there is really, something deeply wrong with the "English" way of life - not that cars, bars, and the Internet are inherently bad in and of themselves, but that we serve up technology as a substitute way of living versus a more moral life based on helping and supporting others - that we use technology as a distraction in our lives in order to vindicate ourselves, and that if only these 5 young people can be convinced that our technological way of life, albeit with more liberal gender roles, is better, than we in the English world needn't feel as guilty about the poverty we ignore in our midst, the drone bombing of brown people with "towels" on their heads, the pollution, the rising sea levels and its impact on remote, Pacific Rim island people, the crime, and so on. Amish people and communities, despite their own cultural flaws, represent a supreme danger and challenge to our corrupted, distracted ' of life by showing up our way of life for what it really is. If said Amish can be brought into our fold of being intoxicated with SUVs, ATMS, smartphones and so on, that threat of exposing our bankrupt way of life, technological or not, is lessened."
Yes, well. 'Said Amish' get to live in peace, tranquility, in relatively isolationist communities, because we "English" do their fighting and dying for them.
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Old 09-16-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,722 posts, read 47,483,706 times
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Originally Posted by birdinmigration View Post
Yes, well. 'Said Amish' get to live in peace, tranquility, in relatively isolationist communities, because we "English" do their fighting and dying for them.
As a career US servicemember, I do not mind that at all. It takes courage to be pacifist. I do not mind giving them the opportunity to be pacifists.

US servicemembers do far more 'fighting and dying' than is required for defending our nation.

There is a man of the Anabaptist Faith that I see a couple times each year, I enjoy having discussions with him. [I hope to see him again this coming weekend] I was initially surprised to learn that he is also a retired US servicemember, he later converted. I have great respect for him, and I have came to understand why he decided to convert. No one hates the horrors of battle more, or desires peace more, than a combat vet.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:11 AM
 
1,253 posts, read 1,779,935 times
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Well-reasoned, Submariner.

My thought is -- where would the Amish be without the protection of our laws and freedoms? What if the same sense of autonomy were given to any isolationist sect of any religion? Are we as sentimental about Moonies, Branch Davidians, polygamists in rural Arizona, or enclaves of traditional Muslims, Jews, or Sikhs? We are okay with the Amish speaking Middle German as a first language, why do people get so upset at first-language speakers of Spanish?

Pacifist cultures trying to exist in other countries can wind up like the Buddhists of Tibet, disenfranchised refugees whose titular head, the Dalai Lama is revered but incapable of restoring their ancestral homeland.

I also spent decades in the service (Un-Armed Services -- the Foreign Affairs folk in embassies) overseas and everywhere. We know we are out there targets for anyone wanting to take pot-shots at us, but there we are anyway, all our pacifist preferences called into question by the need to defend our country.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,487 posts, read 6,426,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
As a career US servicemember, I do not mind that at all. It takes courage to be pacifist. I do not mind giving them the opportunity to be pacifists.

US servicemembers do far more 'fighting and dying' than is required for defending our nation.

There is a man of the Anabaptist Faith that I see a couple times each year, I enjoy having discussions with him. [I hope to see him again this coming weekend] I was initially surprised to learn that he is also a retired US servicemember, he later converted. I have great respect for him, and I have came to understand why he decided to convert. No one hates the horrors of battle more, or desires peace more, than a combat vet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdinmigration View Post
Well-reasoned, Submariner.

My thought is -- where would the Amish be without the protection of our laws and freedoms? What if the same sense of autonomy were given to...
There are many who cannot/do not/will not fight. Why single out the Amish? Some of us are fighters, some are not. Many have been proud to stand up and do their patriotic duty, knowing that there were others who could not or would not. Would you want to go into battle with a man who was convinced that he could not/should not do what must be done?

Some are simply not fit to fight, they cannot take up arms and kill, and be strong enough of mind to deal with what they have done. Many have been pressed into service, and returned 'broken'- called at various times 'shell shock', 'battle fatigue', or 'PTSD'. Some of them recover (to some extent) while others never do, some pretend they have though they have not- a battle scene comes on the TV and they pretend it doesn't bother them but if you observe closely their fists are clenched, muscles taught as they remember what they would like to forget. Some turn to alcohol or drugs to try to cope. I would venture a guess that only the truly and completely psychotic do not feel some effect.

I wouldn't want to go into a fight with someone who was convinced that he cannot/should not fight, and I would much rather fight alongside volunteers than draftees.

Quote:
US servicemembers do far more 'fighting and dying' than is required for defending our nation.
Ain't that the truth. And, not only during 'recognized war periods'...there are also those who fought (and died) just as hard during our [not always so] "Cold War" with the Russians while our misguided foreign policy used the peoples of other nations as pawns, in places and at times they cannot name, who wear no hash marks on their sleeves and no medals on their chests, often ill-equipped and poorly supplied, who get little or no recognition for their accomplishments because they 'never happened'.

And not to forget those who were injured and killed in training, standing ready to do what others could not or would not, giving years out of their lives because they could and would do what must be done if they were called on to do so.

Last edited by Zymer; 09-17-2012 at 02:47 PM..
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in deep in Maine
3,484 posts, read 2,534,004 times
Reputation: 4197
In our history as a country, very very rarely have the wars been the result of us being physically attacked by another country. They are usually caused by some politician or groups of politicians who decide that we need something and they use the power of the gun to get it.

Patriotism is always defined by those who are in power in government. There is no objective standard of patriotism in regard to going to war. The Vietnam War was certainly one of those. The Iraq war to rid the world of weapons of mass destruction that Saadam Hussein had which he didn't really have is another.

I wish it is/was as simple as it is being portrayed.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:49 AM
 
468 posts, read 611,322 times
Reputation: 561
Interesting comments, but I would say that the vast majority. of our wars of late have been for continued access to oil markets and by using far less oil, at least as the old order Amish we have in this part of Maine appear to use, I would say the service people I know are definitely defending me more than the Amish.

All of our wars in my lifetime have been because of or in support of US Imperialism and that's something I just cannot see my local Maine Amish supporting in the least.

I really didn't expect my initial post to generate so many political comments. Such comments don't belong on the Maine forum, but I felt I owed one response since I was directly quoted. I will not respond further here. Anything else please message me in private.
Thanks
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, CA/Dover-Foxcroft, ME
1,808 posts, read 2,891,840 times
Reputation: 2826
When I saw the thread title, Amish in Maine, I immediately thought of a friend that I'm having dinner with tomorrow night in our motorcycle riding Wednesday night dinner club (see list below). His name is Amish. Only he's from India. And they can't be more opposite from the Amish discussed here. He and his family and countrymen have an obsession with gold. The more you own and display, the more respect and admiration they have. Their country is going through a boom like we saw after WWll with a 2012 twist. Twin them with China and it makes us look like a lumbering giant.

As far as Amish in Maine, I have never met or even seen them. They don't seem to live near Dover. If they do, I've been living in my own world and will have to smarten up I guess.

1. Dan
2. Doug
3. Lisa
4/5. Fred/Jim - Not sure if you confirmed
6. Amish
7. Tim
8. Don. Sigh, no beer is ok...
9. Just Bob
10.Roger
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