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Old 05-12-2013, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Maine
3,524 posts, read 2,821,778 times
Reputation: 6803

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
I spoke with a board member of one of the "F" schools. Three students quit school. One family moved away. One family began home schooling their child and one family was out of state on the day of the test. According to the state records that brought the participation rate down to 88% so the school gets an "F". It makes no difference that the school math team wins the state math meet on a regular basis, that there are numerous students taking college courses in advanced placement or that other students are in Asia with exchange programs.

Rules are rules.
I agree that a school should not be penalized for participation unless they are manipulating things to there own advantage by leaving out children that are there but they know are failing, make every child take the test even if you have to wait a week or two or three, if a child moved away they should not be counted, if they were pulled out of school for home schooling then they do not count.


bill
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,239 posts, read 60,963,154 times
Reputation: 30133
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangorme View Post
What does budget have to do with it?
In public-funded education budget has everything to do with it.

That is exactly how private education is rated.



Quote:
... We can all agree that the expectation is that communities that spend more on education (because they can, or make huge sacrifices to) will do better than those that don't.
Ah, yes, expectations vs. reality.

We all know [from hundreds of studies] that how much is spent on education has NO relation to quality of education.

Some districts [nationwide] spend twice as much money for lower results, while other districts spend far less and achieve much better results.

If my school district were among those spending more tax-dollars for less performance, I would want to know about it. That is exactly why it is important.



Quote:
... Another being poverty. I could come with ten more if I put my mind to it. That's why you compare apples to apples and who cares about the reasons? Which schools systems do the best with what they have? Small town to small town. Poor town to poor town. etc... That is the important question. Then if you want to take reason by reason and analyze the results against those reasons, that's the whole different project... mainly one for academics.
Community poverty has shown a long running correlation to poorer schools. That is a hard topic to fix, though again spending more money has never proven to help the issue.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,239 posts, read 60,963,154 times
Reputation: 30133
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrat View Post
I agree that a school should not be penalized for participation unless they are manipulating things to there own advantage by leaving out children that are there but they know are failing, make every child take the test even if you have to wait a week or two or three, if a child moved away they should not be counted, if they were pulled out of school for home schooling then they do not count.


bill
Fortunately 'graduation Rate' only accounts for 20% of the overall grade.

For this to actually pull a high performing school down they would require a very high percentage of the students to drop-out. Transferring does not count into this equation.

Participation rate does not count into the overall grade either. [according to the link provided in the OP]
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:16 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,136,678 times
Reputation: 2677
I think they should bring back the once-a-year, middle-of-the-year test that NMLM referred to. The only thing we were told was to bring a #2 pencil and that was the day before. There was no buildup or discussion for weeks before it. It was a very basic test which proved we could multiply a two digit number and plug it into a word problem without a calculator, we could write a perfectly clear sentence, and we knew how basic science worked (at least in 1 - 8 grade anyway) Make it short, sweet, and to the point - add relevant content for today's technological world, but honestly, I think they go way overboard with the useless info now.

Personally, I think this whole "grading" system is just more gonadal rattling from the latest cowboy to try and clean up Dodge City. No, he's not the first one to try. Sure, it sounds great on paper and in sound bites, but IMO it is very difficult to truly assess 'achievement' only by testing.

I briefly worked in education and volunteered time as well. When NCLB came into play, I could no longer stand to watch what went on there and I left. I saw incredibly inane curriculum which did little more than (IMHO) frustrate too many kids and squeeze the last drop of any joy they had for learning right out of them. I saw teachers afraid to stand up to administration and tell them how useless that curriculum was.

I saw administrators who had to listen to parents, politicians. and ranting taxpayers (who no more knew what went on in the average classroom than a tomato plant does) complain about how their child isn't learning and demanding to know why. In other words, I saw too much time assigning blame instead of working toward what would be best for the students.

I saw parents scratching their heads at the propaganda of the reading program "You are your child's first and BEST teacher!" while their kids were told flat out not to ask their parents how to help them do their math homework because "they won't know how to do it." I saw the new Accelerated Reading computer program and at first thought "Hey, this is great!" Until, that is, I would show my children books I thought they might enjoy and the very first thing they said was "Is there an AR quiz for it? I don't want to read it unless I can use the points."

I sat and watched child after child get a specialized IEP (Individual Educational Plan) because they couldn't pass one or another (Math or Reading - that was pretty much all they had time for) if their parents couldn't afford to pay a tutor for them. <-----That right there is the number 1 reason that test scores go up BTW - tutoring, but don't tell the "experts" in pedagogy. They don't like to hear that. It's easier just to assign blame to the parents or the teachers or the lazy, unmotivated students who drag the scores down.

I saw full-fledged test preparathons with pizza parties and "Now just do the best you can - no pressure" (But give this paper that tells your *stoopid* parents to make sure you get a good night's sleep, and a good breakfast so you'll get a good grade!).

After a while it became quite clear to most of the students that if they didn't 'perform' well, their teachers would get blamed for it - even if the teacher hadn't expressly stated that fact. Fortunately that practice has slowed (with the exception of the "Dear *stoopid* Parents note).

I saw not just NECAPS, but NWEAs which are computer based and in between the NECAPS. I started wondering just exactly how much time was spent learning to fill in the best possible bubble answer rather than what the material actually was.

I saw schizophrenic test results pretty much based on the fact that one of my kids stressed to the point of not being able to sleep at night (yes, I got the "go to bed memo") and developed a fine case of test anxiety. I'm sure that'll be my fault for catering to my "special snowflake" though if I were to bring it up at a meeting.

But I think the worst travesty in this whole mass obsession over a stupid number on a test sheet, is the number of kids who are currently sitting in Special Ed bored to rage because they can't seem to fill in the correct bubble. They may be able to develop and build the greatest structure/program/invention on earth, but they'll never get there because they can't seem to figure out which "best possible answer" out of 4 or 5 that are perfectly plausible on a NECAP and therefore, cannot achieve even a "Partially Meets Standards" designation.

What do you do then if you don't have the resources (or parental a$$ booter) in your life? You say "screw it" and drop out until you finally get it through your head that you aren't going to get anywhere without an education.

If I had known then what I know now, I'd have homeschooled my kids or found a co-op like the one a couple of towns over. It's too late for that regret now, but the prospect of charter schools intrigues me for my younger child.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:01 AM
 
19,959 posts, read 30,011,147 times
Reputation: 39992
yesterday while at the mother's day table, my brother went out to his car to get his sons high school report card- the new grading system- i asked how his son did...he said i dont have a clue- i read it twice and made little sense- so i went to the teachers comments in the back- and they were ok, so i assume he did ok
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,136,678 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
yesterday while at the mother's day table, my brother went out to his car to get his sons high school report card- the new grading system- i asked how his son did...he said i dont have a clue- i read it twice and made little sense- so i went to the teachers comments in the back- and they were ok, so i assume he did ok
Yup. Color me not surprised. It's extremely difficult to make heads or tails out of a lot of the 'information' we get.

The days of short, sweet, and to the point are solidly over IMO.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:34 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,150,209 times
Reputation: 2567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
I disagree. We used to have "the Iowas" where students all across the nation took progress tests. You could compare your school or your child with the nation or the next district over. It was true accountability. Faculties did not want to be evaluated and they went through several new systems of evaluation. The most recent one is the most ridiculous yet. If fewer than 95% of the students in a school take the test the school is dropped one letter grade. If fewer than 90% of the students take the test the school gets an "F:. This is not about academic achievement. It is about compliance.

I say we should go back to the Iowas and find out where we really stand. We know we are #32 among the developed nations. If they are successful in imposing Common Core or the Soviet model we will soon be at #40.
"Must spread Reputation around before giving it to Northern Maine Land Man again"

Consider yourself repped anyway
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:43 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,150,209 times
Reputation: 2567
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrat View Post
What's wrong with Charter schools, last I checked a majority of Mainers voted for them. And the teachers union and it's democrat cronies have been trying the kill them outright.
Maybe the governor would not have to fight the teachers union if they stopped trying to thwart the will of the Maine people.




bill
I dare say the governor will do some back-walking if a lot of charter schools start cropping up in Maine that turn out to be Muslim madrasas.

Religious schools, because why not.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:56 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,136,678 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdinmigration View Post
I dare say the governor will do some back-walking if a lot of charter schools start cropping up in Maine that turn out to be Muslim madrasas.

Religious schools, because why not.
Excellent point.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:25 AM
 
1,874 posts, read 2,857,199 times
Reputation: 2032
Students at Brewer High School respond to their grade.

Brewer High Students Respond To LePage’s “C” Grade – Mike Tipping - BDN Maine Blogs
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