05-12-2013, 03:40 PM
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Northern Maine Land Man
I spoke with a board member of one of the "F" schools. Three students quit school. One family moved away. One family began home schooling their child and one family was out of state on the day of the test. According to the state records that brought the participation rate down to 88% so the school gets an "F". It makes no difference that the school math team wins the state math meet on a regular basis, that there are numerous students taking college courses in advanced placement or that other students are in Asia with exchange programs.
Rules are rules.
I agree that a school should not be penalized for participation unless they are manipulating things to there own advantage by leaving out children that are there but they know are failing, make every child take the test even if you have to wait a week or two or three, if a child moved away they should not be counted, if they were pulled out of school for home schooling then they do not count.
bill
05-12-2013, 04:50 PM
Location: Forests of Maine
37,239 posts, read
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Reputation: 30133
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bangorme
What does budget have to do with it?
In public-funded education budget has everything to do with it.
That is exactly how private education is rated.
Quote:
... We can all agree that the expectation is that communities that spend more on education (because they can, or make huge sacrifices to) will do better than those that don't.
Ah, yes, expectations vs. reality.
We all know [from hundreds of studies] that how much is spent on education has NO relation to quality of education.
Some districts [nationwide] spend twice as much money for lower results, while other districts spend far less and achieve much better results.
If my school district were among those spending more tax-dollars for less performance, I would want to know about it. That is exactly why it is important.
Quote:
... Another being poverty. I could come with ten more if I put my mind to it. That's why you compare apples to apples and who cares about the reasons? Which schools systems do the best with what they have? Small town to small town. Poor town to poor town. etc... That is the important question. Then if you want to take reason by reason and analyze the results against those reasons, that's the whole different project... mainly one for academics.
Community poverty has shown a long running correlation to poorer schools. That is a hard topic to fix, though again spending more money has never proven to help the issue.
05-12-2013, 04:53 PM
Location: Forests of Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
roadrat
I agree that a school should not be penalized for participation unless they are manipulating things to there own advantage by leaving out children that are there but they know are failing, make every child take the test even if you have to wait a week or two or three, if a child moved away they should not be counted, if they were pulled out of school for home schooling then they do not count.
bill
Fortunately 'graduation Rate' only accounts for 20% of the overall grade.
For this to actually pull a high performing school down they would require a very high percentage of the students to drop-out. Transferring does not count into this equation.
Participation rate does not count into the overall grade either. [according to the link provided in the OP]
05-12-2013, 06:16 PM
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
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Reputation: 2677
I think they should bring back the once-a-year, middle-of-the-year test that NMLM referred to. The only thing we were told was to bring a #2 pencil and that was the day before. There was no buildup or discussion for weeks before it. It was a very basic test which proved we could multiply a two digit number and plug it into a word problem without a calculator, we could write a perfectly clear sentence, and we knew how basic science worked (at least in 1 - 8 grade anyway) Make it short, sweet, and to the point - add relevant content for today's technological world, but honestly, I think they go way overboard with the useless info now.
Personally, I think this whole "grading" system is just more gonadal rattling from the latest cowboy to try and clean up Dodge City. No, he's not the first one to try. Sure, it sounds great on paper and in sound bites, but IMO it is very difficult to truly assess 'achievement' only by testing.
I briefly worked in education and volunteered time as well. When NCLB came into play, I could no longer stand to watch what went on there and I left. I saw incredibly inane curriculum which did little more than (IMHO) frustrate too many kids and squeeze the last drop of any joy they had for learning right out of them. I saw teachers afraid to stand up to administration and tell them how useless that curriculum was.
I saw administrators who had to listen to parents, politicians. and ranting taxpayers (who no more knew what went on in the average classroom than a tomato plant does) complain about how their child isn't learning and demanding to know why. In other words, I saw too much time assigning blame instead of working toward what would be best for the students.
I saw parents scratching their heads at the propaganda of the reading program "You are your child's first and BEST teacher!" while their kids were told flat out not to ask their parents how to help them do their math homework because "they won't know how to do it." I saw the new Accelerated Reading computer program and at first thought "Hey, this is great!" Until, that is, I would show my children books I thought they might enjoy and the very first thing they said was "Is there an AR quiz for it? I don't want to read it unless I can use the points."
I sat and watched child after child get a specialized IEP (Individual Educational Plan) because they couldn't pass one or another (Math or Reading - that was pretty much all they had time for) if their parents
couldn't afford to pay a tutor for them. <-----That right there is the number 1 reason that test scores go up BTW - tutoring, but don't tell the "experts" in pedagogy. They don't like to hear that. It's easier just to assign blame to the parents or the teachers or the lazy, unmotivated students who drag the scores down.
I saw full-fledged test preparathons with pizza parties and "Now just do the best you can - no pressure" (But give this paper that tells your *stoopid* parents to make sure you get a good night's sleep, and a good breakfast so you'll get a good grade!).
After a while it became quite clear to most of the students that if they didn't 'perform' well, their teachers would get blamed for it - even if the teacher hadn't expressly stated that fact. Fortunately that practice has slowed (with the exception of the "Dear *stoopid* Parents note).
I saw not just NECAPS, but NWEAs which are computer based and in between the NECAPS. I started wondering just exactly how much time was spent learning to fill in the best possible bubble answer rather than what the material actually was.
I saw schizophrenic test results pretty much based on the fact that one of my kids stressed to the point of not being able to sleep at night (yes, I got the "go to bed memo") and developed a fine case of test anxiety. I'm sure that'll be my fault for catering to my "special snowflake" though if I were to bring it up at a meeting.
But I think the worst travesty in this whole mass obsession over a stupid number on a test sheet, is the number of kids who are currently sitting in Special Ed bored to rage because they can't seem to fill in the correct bubble. They may be able to develop and build the greatest structure/program/invention on earth, but they'll never get there because they can't seem to figure out which "best possible answer" out of 4 or 5 that are perfectly plausible on a NECAP and therefore, cannot achieve even a "Partially Meets Standards" designation.
What do you do then if you don't have the resources (or parental a$$ booter) in your life? You say "screw it" and drop out until you finally get it through your head that you aren't going to get anywhere without an education.
If I had known then what I know now, I'd have homeschooled my kids or found a co-op like the one a couple of towns over. It's too late for that regret now, but the prospect of charter schools intrigues me for my younger child.
05-13-2013, 04:01 AM
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Reputation: 39992
yesterday while at the mother's day table, my brother went out to his car to get his sons high school report card- the new grading system- i asked how his son did...he said i dont have a clue- i read it twice and made little sense- so i went to the teachers comments in the back- and they were ok, so i assume he did ok
05-13-2013, 08:21 AM
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read
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Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mainebrokerman
yesterday while at the mother's day table, my brother went out to his car to get his sons high school report card- the new grading system- i asked how his son did...he said i dont have a clue- i read it twice and made little sense- so i went to the teachers comments in the back- and they were ok, so i assume he did ok
Yup. Color me not surprised. It's extremely difficult to make heads or tails out of a lot of the 'information' we get.
The days of short, sweet, and to the point are solidly over IMO.
05-13-2013, 08:34 PM
1,250 posts, read
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Reputation: 2567
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Northern Maine Land Man
I disagree. We used to have "the Iowas" where students all across the nation took progress tests. You could compare your school or your child with the nation or the next district over. It was true accountability. Faculties did not want to be evaluated and they went through several new systems of evaluation. The most recent one is the most ridiculous yet. If fewer than 95% of the students in a school take the test the school is dropped one letter grade. If fewer than 90% of the students take the test the school gets an "F:. This is not about academic achievement. It is about compliance.
I say we should go back to the Iowas and find out where we really stand. We know we are #32 among the developed nations. If they are successful in imposing Common Core or the Soviet model we will soon be at #40.
"Must spread Reputation around before giving it to Northern Maine Land Man again"
Consider yourself repped anyway
05-13-2013, 08:43 PM
1,250 posts, read
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Reputation: 2567
Quote:
Originally Posted by
roadrat
What's wrong with Charter schools, last I checked a majority of Mainers voted for them. And the teachers union and it's democrat cronies have been trying the kill them outright.
Maybe the governor would not have to fight the teachers union if they stopped trying to thwart the will of the Maine people.
bill
I dare say the governor will do some back-walking if a lot of charter schools start cropping up in Maine that turn out to be Muslim madrasas.
Religious schools, because why not.
05-14-2013, 02:56 PM
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read
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Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by
birdinmigration
I dare say the governor will do some back-walking if a lot of charter schools start cropping up in Maine that turn out to be Muslim madrasas.
Religious schools, because why not.
Excellent point.
05-26-2013, 07:25 AM
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Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)