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Old 01-01-2008, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Waldo County
1,220 posts, read 3,918,055 times
Reputation: 1414

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According to the specs, the two larger stoves produce 22,000 btu and the smaller one, 8000.

I am thinking of replacing the oldest Monitor which develops 20000 BTU (Monitor 24, I think it is), with a small Toyo like I have in the study. In the Atrium which is open to the second floor, it will probably run longer and harder, but the Monitor 24 shuts down faily quickly unless the wind is howling. With the two small Toyo stoves running, both will provide convection to the second floor, as the ceiling in the study is open to the upper floor by design. At the head of the stairs, I have a ceiling fan that is moving lazily all the time in winter to circulate heat upstairs. Bear in mind, if I close the bathroom or either bedroom doors upstairs, those rooms will get VERY cold, but with the doors left open, the rooms are always warm.

I will not buy another Monitor. They simply are inferior to the Toyo products that are quieter, and last far longer before rebuild. Monitor has cheapened its product line chiefly in the area of fan bearings and burners.

Last edited by Acadianlion; 01-01-2008 at 03:53 PM.. Reason: corecting specifications on the Monitor heater: it is a Monitor 22 that has been rebuilt twice.
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Kittery
26 posts, read 57,242 times
Reputation: 21
Do any of you have any knowledge about Passive Solar (for new construction)? All your comments seem to revolve around paying for heat. It would seem to me, properly designed, a home could be heated for free.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,246 posts, read 60,976,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinnsBestDad View Post
Do any of you have any knowledge about Passive Solar (for new construction)? All your comments seem to revolve around paying for heat. It would seem to me, properly designed, a home could be heated for free.
'Hot and Cold' [a local radio talk show here in Maine] routinely discusses solar heating systems.

The flat panel tech verses the Chinese vacuum tube collectors seems to be the big contenders in this field.

In both of these systems you are still paying for electricity to circ heated fluid through the collectors and back to your home.

We heat with a stove, and mostly burn free fuels.
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Maine's garden spot
3,466 posts, read 7,196,508 times
Reputation: 4016
It's possible for passive solar to do alot of work for you. A well designed and super insulated house is key. I don't know all the particulars about how to do it. Most always some form of back-up heat is required.

Forest has mentioned the guys from 'hot and cold' and I listen to them also. They are really good at the practical aspects of home heating.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:03 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,082 posts, read 38,718,847 times
Reputation: 17006
I know that the college that is now Northern Maine Community College had a building that they were studying solar heat with. They tried every conceivable configuration for several years and came to the conclusion that it just wasn't practical for winter time this far north, with the technology that was available at the time. That was several years ago, so I don't know how much the solar has evolved in the meantime. Very limited duration, and very low angle of the sun during the winter, I don't know how cost effective it would be even if the technology has came that far in the ensuing years. It would be interesting to see the pay-back time on a system.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Corinth, ME
2,712 posts, read 5,627,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinnsBestDad View Post
Do any of you have any knowledge about Passive Solar (for new construction)? All your comments seem to revolve around paying for heat. It would seem to me, properly designed, a home could be heated for free.
I am looking forward to experimenting with passive solar when I get to ME. I built a passive solar greenhouse/summer kitchen onto the 80YO addition to an 100 YO house in WI a long time back... couldn't get energy credit for it as "they" (utility co) said it wouldn't work... did it anyway... house was not super insulated, just had blown-in and we added plastic to the inside of the windows (single ply with single ply storms) in winter.

It did not fill the bill 100% but made enough of a dent in the natural gas bill that we had the utility co wanting to give tours after a year of operation. We got SOME warming even on days that were only "bright overcast"
and that helped a lot. Of course we were also in town, in a location that was well protected from winds...

I will likely play initially with a "temporary" solar greenhouse, from my PVC and heavy plastic design that was written up in Backwoods Home Mag in its early days... that will give me an idea how well it will work, and then I can design a roof structure and depth of addition that will allow the winter sun to shine on an insulated cement floor with rock under it, all insulated from the earth... and where the same floor will be shaded at the peak of the summer heating season, when I swap out the glass panels for screens and keep my canning heat out of the kitchen.

In WI I put the clothes dryer out there as well, and during long overcast/bad weather spells, the heat from the dryer helped moderate the temp for the greenhouse plants.
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Waldo County
1,220 posts, read 3,918,055 times
Reputation: 1414
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinnsBestDad View Post
Do any of you have any knowledge about Passive Solar (for new construction)? All your comments seem to revolve around paying for heat. It would seem to me, properly designed, a home could be heated for free.
Passive solar is indeed possible. There are several keys to it, including the orientation of the house, the type and amount of insulation including the type and insulation method of the glass. There is a website about a house that was built entirely around being a solar energy generator, including heating itself, and generating its own electricity. Since Maine has a "net metering" plan, that particular house puts enough electricity from its solar array into the net to nearly achieve zero electricity consumption annually.
Try Maine Solar House. This is a private home that was built a few years ago, so some of the construction methods and materials used are a bit dated. Also, WHEN the house was built, it was built with a great big budget, AND it is also a great big house, but the results are undeniably good, and as the cost of fuel oil increases, the expense of the house decreases rapidly.

When we build our new home we will be building on an excellent passive solar site, and will be doing as much as possible to achieve a zero carbon footprint. Our choices will probably include passive solar array, geothermal heatpump and some form of alternative heat, most likely a wood burning stove, or a Russian fireplace of some sort, since our plans include a large stone thermal mass in the center of the house....still working on that.

From the reading that I have done, as well as the construction that I have done, the key to passive solar heating is orientation and construction. My home here is oriented toward the southwest. I have woods to the south, but in winter with the leaves gone, I get good sun through the large windows in the southwest until sunset. On the coldest days, the liviing room and master bedroom get great solar gain even with winter winds from the Northwest that come across the bay and hit the house's northwest corner. The house is "conventional: 2x6" construction with large, Andersen insulated windows...nothing especially fancy. I do NOT use drapes or shades at night, which would help I suppose, but my fuel consumption (3 kerosene heaters) is around 6-800 gallons a year. Incidentally, in the summer the house is cool because it was built within and under the oak trees so that I get shielding from the heat of the summer sun, and that consideration is also a part of solar construction...getting maximum gain in the winter is nice, but if you fry in the summer it sort of takes the edge off.

There is an enormous amount of information available on the web and elsewhere, and several monthly magazines are published with continuous articles about solar and passive solar design. It isn't rocket science, but conventional construction alone will prove not substitute to intensive study, OR hiring an architect to do it all for you....probably the best choice is to do both.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Gary, WV & Springfield, ME
5,826 posts, read 9,579,006 times
Reputation: 17323
I currently heat with propane and to a lesser degree, K1 - but am not currently in Maine nor happy with either of those sources of heat.

Tried to get the Maine homestead ready for year-round habitation last summer, but failed. No heat source lined up for Maine and have issues with an open flame anything and thanks to this year not interested in propane or K1. I'll be installing solar panels next summer. Keep your fingers crossed.

Have found that using an electric space heater aimed directly on me - not trying to heat the house or even the room - has raised my utility bill by only $11. Makes my bill $35 instead of $24. Not sure that it will be that much in Maine since my camp is a total of 318sf. Between the utility company and solar, that should cover it without breaking the bank.

Everyone knock on wood for me.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,246 posts, read 60,976,905 times
Reputation: 30134
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceT View Post
I currently heat with propane and to a lesser degree, K1 - but am not currently in Maine nor happy with either of those sources of heat.

Tried to get the Maine homestead ready for year-round habitation last summer, but failed. No heat source lined up for Maine and have issues with an open flame anything and thanks to this year not interested in propane or K1. I'll be installing solar panels next summer. Keep your fingers crossed.

Have found that using an electric space heater aimed directly on me - not trying to heat the house or even the room - has raised my utility bill by only $11. Makes my bill $35 instead of $24. Not sure that it will be that much in Maine since my camp is a total of 318sf. Between the utility company and solar, that should cover it without breaking the bank.

Everyone knock on wood for me.
I do understand reasoning behind avoiding oil and propane.

Are you specifically avoiding wood fuel?
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Gary, WV & Springfield, ME
5,826 posts, read 9,579,006 times
Reputation: 17323
I need to specifically avoid any open flame home heating.
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