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Old 04-22-2014, 08:06 AM
 
1,453 posts, read 2,187,478 times
Reputation: 1740

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
Remember the street person in Boston who sued Maine fishermen to save the whales? One of the giant conservation corporations told him if he would sign the paper to save the whales they would give him a lifetime pass to the soup kitchen in the South End. He signed the paper which turned out to be a federal lawsuit. It put every single Maine long line fisherman out of business.

John Kerry lived in his old Chrysler LeBaron for a while until he charmed Theresa Heinz. Now he's secretary of state and doesn't know any more about foreign policy than he did when he was on the Mekong River - briefly.

When Roxanne was living in the back seat of her K-car she met Bert and they formed a partnership. The business plan was that they could mix beeswax and goat's milk and people would rub it on themselves. A giant environmental corporation bought the goat's milk and beeswax company for a huge amount of money and the North Woods National Park plan was off and running. Somebody else who knows the story sent me one of their lip balm products as a Christmas gag gift.

Read their stuff. You'll see that they want to prevent business and economic development:

Global Sustainability requires: "the deliberate quest of poverty . . . reduced resource consumption . . . and set levels of mortality control."
Professor Maurice King

“The collective needs of non-human species must take precedence over the needs and desires of humans."
Dr. Reed F. Noss, The Wildlands Project

"Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsibility to bring that about?"
Maurice Strong, Head of the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro

“Economic growth is not the cure, it is the disease.”
Maurice Strong

"Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs."
John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal


Everything these people touch becomes an economic, social and political disaster. Deluded garden variety progressives are the least of our problems. It's their leaders we need to worry about.
So, instead of addressing the debunking of your "NASA pen" story, you come up with some more diversions which, after the foregoing, have questionable veracity. Let's try another approach. What if the Koch Brothers owned 100,000 acres next to Baxter Park and wanted to donate it as a National Park? They would be heroes, wouldn't they? Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion: REAL pros and cons of a National Park? Economics? Nearby property values? Loss of tax revenues? Reality versus diversionary political tripe?
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:17 PM
 
19,959 posts, read 30,011,147 times
Reputation: 39992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuffler View Post
I can't believe that this issue is still being pursued. Way back years ago, while visiting, we were approached with someone holding a clipboard to sign a petition to have Baxter made into a NP. We courteously explained that we were not residents and could not vote. I didn't see much more about this subject until now.

I've spend plenty of time at Baxter fly fishing for some of the extraordinary wild trout in the cleanest, clearest water I've ever seen. You could see 30' down in the lake we were in it was that clear. It was a tough trek to get in there but boy was it worth it. Why would anyone want to change that environment from what it currently is to having a NP status complete with paved roads, guard houses, carved signs and more traffic? You've already got all of that a Acadia, the NP we are in love with but only after Labor Day. That is not the kind of traffic you need to bring to North Central Maine and at Baxter. In my most humble opinion, Baxter should stay just as it is; a rural local State Park that is visited by locals and people "from away" like me and my family from time to time. It's rugged, wild, and alluring. We don't need concessions, bathrooms and gift shops there.......just the trees and the wildlife thank you very much. I sure hope, for Maine's sake, that this stays local. As mentioned above, when the Feds get involved things can only become a lot more complicated.

Rome (Currently from CT but moving to Maine in the next 24 months or so!)
cuffler-excellent post!!
thanks for taking the time to write it
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:40 PM
 
1,453 posts, read 2,187,478 times
Reputation: 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
cuffler-excellent post!!
thanks for taking the time to write it
The thought is nice, but the reality is that Percival Baxter left the land, after a war with the clearcut and pave crowd, who hated him as much as their modern equivalent hate Roxanne Quimby, in a perpetual Trust that could never become a National Park, so I don't know who was asking you to sign a petition, but they were full of baloney. Note that all proposals for a National Park EXCLUDE Baxter State Park and its boundaries. Kinda funny they haven't proposed putting Baxter into the NP plan, don't you think? Maybe because it might be a legal impossibility? Or viewed as a virtually insurmountable legal battle? I've been here for 59 years, and never heard of anyone proposing to turn Baxter over to the Feds. In any event, the whole thing may be moot, as even the Federal moneywasters have declined to pursue a study of the potential for a National Park. I've just been asking "what if", without personally deciding one way or the other. Beyond the fact that if it will negatively impact that region economically, if taken out of Quimby ownership and put in a National Park, then it probably isn't a good idea. However, with the advent of massive data storage facilities, and the lessening need for paper other than toilet paper (god forbid!) and decline in magazines and written texts, it seems like the argument for the fiber and the attendant jobs might not hold water, either.

It's spring. When the river drops a little more, I'll go upta Lunksoos for a few days and hit the trout on the East Branch and Wassataquoik and report back. I DO know that Patten is somewhat divided over the issue, some hate, some love, some wondering where they will be next year.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:33 PM
 
506 posts, read 679,141 times
Reputation: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by maineguy8888 View Post
That's not what she said at all. And do YOU live in the area that would be impacted by this park?
Here's the deal: WE ALREADY HAVE A NICE, BIG PARK THERE.......one that is ten times better than anything that Roxie wants to do.
So obviously the people who are behind this are really just into power grabs. The are just Statists.
Cate Street will rescue you. Good luck!
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:37 PM
 
506 posts, read 679,141 times
Reputation: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
Remember the street person in Boston who sued Maine fishermen to save the whales? One of the giant conservation corporations told him if he would sign the paper to save the whales they would give him a lifetime pass to the soup kitchen in the South End. He signed the paper which turned out to be a federal lawsuit. It put every single Maine long line fisherman out of business.

John Kerry lived in his old Chrysler LeBaron for a while until he charmed Theresa Heinz. Now he's secretary of state and doesn't know any more about foreign policy than he did when he was on the Mekong River - briefly.

When Roxanne was living in the back seat of her K-car she met Bert and they formed a partnership. The business plan was that they could mix beeswax and goat's milk and people would rub it on themselves. A giant environmental corporation bought the goat's milk and beeswax company for a huge amount of money and the North Woods National Park plan was off and running. Somebody else who knows the story sent me one of their lip balm products as a Christmas gag gift.

Read their stuff. You'll see that they want to prevent business and economic development:

Global Sustainability requires: "the deliberate quest of poverty . . . reduced resource consumption . . . and set levels of mortality control."
Professor Maurice King

“The collective needs of non-human species must take precedence over the needs and desires of humans."
Dr. Reed F. Noss, The Wildlands Project

"Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsibility to bring that about?"
Maurice Strong, Head of the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro

“Economic growth is not the cure, it is the disease.”
Maurice Strong

"Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs."
John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal


Everything these people touch becomes an economic, social and political disaster. Deluded garden variety progressives are the least of our problems. It's their leaders we need to worry about.
Remind us how the mill is doing?
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:38 PM
 
506 posts, read 679,141 times
Reputation: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
for 20 years i use to travel to many of the small towns all over maine,

i log on many miles,,,and twice i've sworn ive seen a mountain lion,,, crossing a road in rural maine,,hundreds of miles apart..
when i get a chance, i will ask a game warden or registered guide if they have seen mountain lions or wolves in maine- the wardens will all say no...but the guides arent so black and white, one guide told me ...there is a cat in the area-he has seen it,, i asked, why the effort to keep this hushed up-and his answer hit me like a brick-tho so obvious- "if mountain lions are proven to exist, same with wolves, then there will be a very strong effort to close down/post/restrict huge tracts of habitat under the name of "protection" and thus- our freedoms to use the land will be gone..lost forever.. like putting lipstick on a pig,,the word "protection" will fit an agenda"
Paranoia is sad.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:40 PM
 
506 posts, read 679,141 times
Reputation: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuffler View Post
I can't believe that this issue is still being pursued. Way back years ago, while visiting, we were approached with someone holding a clipboard to sign a petition to have Baxter made into a NP. We courteously explained that we were not residents and could not vote. I didn't see much more about this subject until now.

I've spend plenty of time at Baxter fly fishing for some of the extraordinary wild trout in the cleanest, clearest water I've ever seen. You could see 30' down in the lake we were in it was that clear. It was a tough trek to get in there but boy was it worth it. Why would anyone want to change that environment from what it currently is to having a NP status complete with paved roads, guard houses, carved signs and more traffic? You've already got all of that a Acadia, the NP we are in love with but only after Labor Day. That is not the kind of traffic you need to bring to North Central Maine and at Baxter. In my most humble opinion, Baxter should stay just as it is; a rural local State Park that is visited by locals and people "from away" like me and my family from time to time. It's rugged, wild, and alluring. We don't need concessions, bathrooms and gift shops there.......just the trees and the wildlife thank you very much. I sure hope, for Maine's sake, that this stays local. As mentioned above, when the Feds get involved things can only become a lot more complicated.

Rome (Currently from CT but moving to Maine in the next 24 months or so!)
How does Baxter do employing people that live in the area?
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Caribou, Me.
6,928 posts, read 5,857,066 times
Reputation: 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartMaine View Post
Cate Street will rescue you. Good luck!
I assume that you mean that a national park WILL do good for the area. But answer this: what good will it do when there already IS a big, awesome park there?? One that's far better than anything proposed for the new park.
I don't get it. Why would a ton of people suddenly come into the Millinocket area and spend money solely because a new, second-rate park is created right next to an already-existing awesome park?? The whole concept makes absolutely no sense. The best park in New England is already there.
(Oh, and I don't live near Millinocket. My family DOES visit as tourists, but we'd stop if the feds started taking over. We don't support that kind of nonsense).
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Old 04-23-2014, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
10,428 posts, read 18,562,067 times
Reputation: 11562
Yesterday was Earth Day and the granola crunchers were out! Bigger government is always a bad thing and I don' think the Koch brothers are in favor of it. That's just a hunch since I am as likely to meet them as I am to met Michael Bloomburg.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:29 AM
 
1,453 posts, read 2,187,478 times
Reputation: 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
Yesterday was Earth Day and the granola crunchers were out! Bigger government is always a bad thing and I don' think the Koch brothers are in favor of it. That's just a hunch since I am as likely to meet them as I am to met Michael Bloomburg.
Well, you got me there. Those damn granola crunchers are preventing us all from littering, destroying watersheds and watercourses for profit and wiping out living habitat. Bastids! I miss the days of the old straightpipe right into Cold Stream Pond, when men were men and could defecate anywhere they wanted.

What about Quimby moving toward a State Park? (Not that she would, and I've never heard any discussion of it). For now, the Feds don't seem interested. I'm pretty sure if she's under TGTL she has an obligation to manage for fiber production. And I do know, from my last spin in beyond Siberia, that they have been harvesting in there. Also hunting, fishing, snowmobiling, ATV'ing, etc.
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