Newbie- Introductions (Ellsworth, Unity, Waltham: credit, transfer, calculated)

[wnc-eky-me]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Maine has three incentives for land owners to keep their land in a natural state. First is the tree growth program. Maine needs woods to provide the resource base for our forest product industries. If you agree to raise trees for eventual harvest the state will agree to value your land at around $90 per acre for tax purposes. It han be a huge saving if you NEVER intend to develop that land. The penalties for taking it out of tree growth can be severe.

Next is the farm program. Your farm will be valued as farm land, even though it could be worth much more has house lots.

The third program is the open space program. You agree to leave the land in its natural state. This allows you to maintain old woods roads, trails, meadows, dams and woods. Again, there are big penalties if your needs change.

When you go into your town office to ask about this the town clerk or tax collector may mention farmandopenspace as though it is all one word. That's because the state combines checks for the open space program and the farm program. The town fathers are very happy when they get that check.

All that said, none of my properties are enrolled in any of those programs. the risks and penalties are too severe. Remember from my post a few days ago that no paper mill in Maine owns forest land any more. They can't manage their lands if they can't plan. Our legislature took away the opportunity to plan. I caution anybody considering these programs to weigh the penalties very seriously before taking the bait.

I wonder what the penalty is? I know you say severe, but what does that mean. I know in NC they had penalties but where just paying back the difference in back taxes that you saved because of tree growth program but after some many years (can't remember the #) you reached the ceiling and the penality no longer increased.

[Zymer]

Originally Posted by wnc-eky-me

I wonder what the penalty is? I know you say severe, but what does that mean. I know in NC they had penalties but where just paying back the difference in back taxes that you saved because of tree growth program but after some many years (can't remember the #) you reached the ceiling and the penality no longer increased.

It's a sliding scale that decreases according to the length of time the land has been in the program. I posted it in another thread, use the search feature to find it...or go to the tax section of the Maine .gov website.

[mainebrokerman]

Originally Posted by wnc-eky-me

Hey Forest, I plan on having a great time and learning a lot. Since I am a married man and father of a beautiful daughter my definition of fun is probably different than a lot my fellow students. But you can bet I am still going to have a blast.

We are hoping to only have to make one trip out to get Apt. and send out resumes etc. But since we will have extremely limited budget I think we will have to stick with the cars we have (95' toyota previa van and 00' ford ranger 4x4) there paid for. Although I really don't want the ford to rust out as i was wanting to make it last me for another 10 yrs or so.

Definately look forward to meeting some of you guys and gals at the hippy fair this fall.

thats the best cars to own "paid for" i had a 94 corolla that was one of my best cars i ever had, the last 5 vehicles i've owned were at least ten yrs old,,but "paid for"!! (and i travel a lot!!)
unity is a nice area, try looking around the towns of benton, troy, monroe, albion, even winslow, clinton and fairfield, and oakfield, and sidney (all towns within a short drive of watervile, or unity) and most of those towns are "out in the country" you just may be able to find an inexpensive house to rent also.
be sure to look in the classifieds of the "morning sentinel" i believe thats the waterville local newspaper, also look on maines' craiglist, for rentals or houses, and in unclehenrys.com a maine buy/swap/sell magazine that has a bit of everything. also for rentals check on vrconnections.com tho they may be vacation rentals, you just may find something affordable in the towns i mentioned previously,
it also never hurts to check under "property management" companies for the areas you are targeting, they specialize in rentals, the more places you search, the better chance of finding something!!
good luck!! and welcome to maine!!
if you live by the golden rule, you will find maine people very friendly, helpful, and welcoming!!

[wnc-eky-me]

Thanks mainebrokerman for all the info. This will be very helpful in our serch for rentals. Maybe if we do our reseach here before we come up in March then we will have extra time to spend enjoying maines beautiful scenery.

[AliceT]

Welcome to God's Country.

We won't make fun of your accent if you don't make fun of ours.

Want my personal opinion on child care? Hire a baby sitter. Your home, your rules, your directives, individual care and personalized attention to your favortie little person. Can't afford a full time babysitter? Get a slightly larger home and offer a live-in position exchanging room and board for part of the salary.

Don't let strangers formulate your child with their rules, their beliefs and their morals.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

The worst case scenario is that the state will take 30% of the value of your property when you take it out of tree growth. Suppose you own land on a lake and that land is in tree growth. It is valued under the tree growth program at $85 an acre. You sell a 5 acre lot on the water for $150,000. The state will send you a tax bill for $45,000. There are lake front lots worth $150,000 in Maine. If that lot had never been in the tree growth program there would be a capital gains tax, but nothing like 45 grand.

[wnc-eky-me]

Originally Posted by AliceT

Welcome to God's Country.

We won't make fun of your accent if you don't make fun of ours.

Want my personal opinion on child care? Hire a baby sitter. Your home, your rules, your directives, individual care and personalized attention to your favortie little person. Can't afford a full time babysitter? Get a slightly larger home and offer a live-in position exchanging room and board for part of the salary.

Don't let strangers formulate your child with their rules, their beliefs and their morals.

its a deal about the accent thing AliceT. Although I may repeat yours if I like it and try to adapt a southern/maine combo accent now that would be an interesting one.
Thats an interesting idea about hiring a babysitter. I will have to run that by the DW. It may work out well for us since I will be in school and will have a "flexible" schedule. Then when I am done for the day I can go home and let the babysitter off early as well as save some $$$.
Thanks

[wnc-eky-me]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

The worst case scenario is that the state will take 30% of the value of your property when you take it out of tree growth. Suppose you own land on a lake and that land is in tree growth. It is valued under the tree growth program at $85 an acre. You sell a 5 acre lot on the water for $150,000. The state will send you a tax bill for $45,000. There are lake front lots worth $150,000 in Maine. If that lot had never been in the tree growth program there would be a capital gains tax, but nothing like 45 grand.

That is definately a severe penality. I guess you just have to plan ahead. If you think you are not really attached to the land and plan on selling some lots for income then you should just pay your full taxes.

[Zymer]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

The worst case scenario is that the state will take 30% of the value of your property when you take it out of tree growth. Suppose you own land on a lake and that land is in tree growth. It is valued under the tree growth program at $85 an acre. You sell a 5 acre lot on the water for $150,000. The state will send you a tax bill for $45,000. There are lake front lots worth $150,000 in Maine. If that lot had never been in the tree growth program there would be a capital gains tax, but nothing like 45 grand.

As I read the law, the penalty is not a percentage of the value of the land, rather it is a percentage of the taxes that were not paid (that would have been paid without the exemption):



• Reimbursement to municipalities for taxes lost -- Municipalities shall be reimbursed up to 90% of the taxes lost.

For purposes of this section, the tax lost is the tax that would have been assessed, but for this subchapter, on the classified forest lands if they were assessed according to the undeveloped acreage valuations used in the state valuation then in effect, or according to the current local valuation on undeveloped acreage, whichever is less, minus the tax that was actually assessed on the same lands in accordance with this subchapter.

The reimbursement as calculated above may not exceed an amount determined by calculating the tree growth tax loss less the municipal savings in educational costs attributable to reduced state valuation.





Maine Revenue Services: Property Tax -

[boonelsewhere]

i hope this is ok for Newbie thread.

let assume i want to take 5 acre off tree growth plan to grow vegetables. we will use mil rate at $20 per $1000 of the assessed value,
valued under the tree growth program at $85 an acre, at $900 under normal assess.

tree growth 85 x 5 x .02 = $ 8.50
normal 900 x 5 x .02 = $90.00
tax save $ 81.50

remove from tree growth to grow vegs
900 x 5 x .30 = $ 1350.00
penalty $ 1350.00

no one would put land on tree growth plan, unless you want to keep under tree growth for ever.
i been told it will cost $600-700 to set up tree growth plan and it will need to re certify every 10 years.

The worst case scenario is that the state will take 30% of the value of your property when you take it out of tree growth. Suppose you own land on a lake and that land is in tree growth. It is valued under the tree growth program at $85 an acre. You sell a 5 acre lot on the water for $150,000. The state will send you a tax bill for $45,000. There are lake front lots worth $150,000 in Maine. If that lot had never been in the tree growth program there would be a capital gains tax, but nothing like 45 grand.