Maybe it's time to Nationalize Oil (Portland: health insurance, mortgage, unemployed)

[Coaster]

Ah good, K-Luv, you're back on the board. I had a question from an earlier page you might not have seen concerning one of your posts.

K-Luv said:

There is a state mandate for the lowest possible price per gallon that a gas station can sell for. Of course they can go over that amount by as much as they please, but if they go below it, they risk a fine. Most gas stations barely break even and the ones that do turn a profit are the 'mega' store type or ones that are located right off the highway (and 5 to 10 cents more a gallon).

Now this is news to me. I know the Maine Milk Commission sets a floor price for milk, or used to, but I have never heard that gasoline has a similar rule. Nor have I seen a single news story or legislative bill concerning the state-mandated price for gasoline. Got a link?

[Shuffler]

Perhaps it's the dawn of a new era...."Responsible Capitalism".......?? If that is even possible...

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

I tend to disagree on the 'greedy oil company' argument. They are merely capitalizing on our consumption. They will turn the price screws more and more until people simply stop buying gas/oil, then they will lower prices so people will start buying again. At what price point that happens, who knows. People will complain, but honestly I see no fewer cars on the roads! Plenty of big new SUVs being piloted by smiling, cell-phone-yakking, credit-leveraged wankers who don't have a clue. Insulate your house, turn the thermostat down, put on some sweaters. Nobody's holding a gun to our collective head telling us we have to buy gas and oil...it's a choice. While not convenient or comfortable, there ARE options. Generally speaking, our 'happy motoring' way of life has made many people fat, lazy, and incapable/unwilling to pursue alternatives. Having it so good here in America has made a lot of people.....well, weak. I think the party's over, and we're in for a rough ride.

You are wrong there! If there was a viable alternative to oil myself and millions of others would be all over it! They DO have a gun to our heads and that's the whole problem. THERE IS NO VAIBLE ALTERNATIVE. We have based the whole nation on oil. It is certainly not the fault of the individual for buying the only thing Detroit or Tokyo sells for transportation. Where are the electric cars that will run 400 miles between charges? Where are the hydrogen cars?? What choice do we have??? NONE. To say there is not a monoploly with oil is to not understand a monopoly. Do you think if there was an alternative to $4.00 a gallon gas the trucking , airlines and private automobile owner wouldn't flock to it? The oil companies know this full well and that is the only reason they can charge what they do. There is NO competition and they can charge anything they want to and get away with it. People drive because they HAVE to. They have to work they have to go to the store the doctor etc. I live in Freeport which depends on vehicular tourist traffic visiting the shops for it's survival. Last year the number or cars in this town was half the number of a few years ago. People are NOT driving as much as they were. They're not taking the weekend shopping trips to LL Bean. They're not coming to Maine in the numbers they had been in the past. I took a trip up route 302 by Sebago Lake last summer. I had expected the usual bumper to bumper traffic once I hit North Windham and was surprised when the traffic was as light as it is in the spring.
I asked a man in a store what was going on and he instantly cited the high gas prices for keeping the tourists away.

There is no honest need by the oil companies to overcharge people for oil. They just collectively decided the time was right to quintuple their profits
and that the people of the country could pay or stay home. Sure Europe and Canada pay high prices for oil but in a supply and demand economy USA is a demand goldmine. Oil companies were making money hand over fist on the sheer volume of gasoline they sold in the USA as compared to other countries. They could keep the price low and just make the profits from the billions of gallons sold. Someone finally said well if we can make $x off a billion gallons we can make $xxxx off the same billion gallons and they really have no other choice than to just pay it. It's just plain old uncontrolled GREED! pure and simple. Any of the reasons they were giving us for raising prices, seasonal changes, hurricanes (we haven't had one in two years now), Iraq, Chinese demand, India's demand,old refineries, envrionmentalists, are just bull****. There may be long term problems or just sound bites for the media but have no real affect on short term pricing. Only uncontrolled speculation and the knowlege that they are untouchable due to their malignancy in the country's lifeblood allows them to get away with this abhorrant behavior.
Their time is coming......soon I hope.

[knightjohannes]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

Tell me about it. I'm struggling with a decision of giving up a helluva good life here in Colorado to be in Maine with my girlfriend...you make some great and obvious points here that some people never even consider because they get lost in the 'fantasy'...

I left Summit County for Maine for love. Now we're married (8.5 years) with two kids.

And I'm pretty happy I moved.

I wouldn't mind a place in colorado, but I'm happy to be here. I missed deciduous forests. Among other things. But the Summit was certainly a part of my life that I'm happy I went through.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

I posted the Weigand article as a frame of reference. It is not a sure thing. However, it is certain that we are headed in that direction. If we as a people don't do something very substantial we will go a very long way toward that economic apocolypse. Maine has an economy somewhat separated from the national and economic economies on a macroeconomic level. Augusta is just beginning to realize that we can't increase spending at it's habitual rate forever. Nobody in Augusta has ever mentioned cutting spending; not once. When the mention the word "cuts" they are talking about a slight reduction in the additional amount they would like to have. That is not a cut.

[Shuffler]

Maineah, I appreciate your point. No renewable form of energy has the return on investment that oil does. My point is that as a country, we've completely misallocated our most precious energy resource to build out a living arrangement that cannot continue. Things must change, period.

People have to drive because our past leadership had absolutely zero foresight about the possibility of peak oil, or that the availability of cheap energy to run America might start petering out and be harder to get, or that we'd see the rapid industrialization of countries like India and China. No, we've built, and continue to build, all this 'stuff' that is costing more and more to use and maintain and the world population grows and the dwindling resources need to be spread out among more users.

Until we're willing to let go of some of it, I suppose big energy companies are going to benefit greatly, and some will see this to be a scam, where in reality it's simple supply and demand economics....sort of like the crackhead to the dealer....the car-dependent person to the gas pump. People can change if they want to...life is chock full of choices.

[Shuffler]

Originally Posted by knightjohannes

I left Summit County for Maine for love. Now we're married (8.5 years) with two kids.

And I'm pretty happy I moved.

I wouldn't mind a place in colorado, but I'm happy to be here. I missed deciduous forests. Among other things. But the Summit was certainly a part of my life that I'm happy I went through.

You left at the right time. SummitCo is a mess now....merely an extension of the Front Range suburban cancer...with WalMart, Home Depot, crime, etc. On top of all that, the pine beetles are devastating the White River Nat'l Forest...they predict all the trees to be dead within the next 3-5yrs. People are freaking out.

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by Maineah

You are correct about the purpose of the thread to stimulate debate and possibly stumble across some answers in the process. I'd argue that the situation is much worse than the press and news media would have you believe. There are people and industries being severly impacted right now due to the high fuel costs. Ask the RV salesmen how sales are. Ask Ford how many F250's they have sold since gas went to $3.00 and stayed there. Have you seen the added costs in fuel to just about everything? My plumber lives 10 miles from here and charged me $20.00 for fuel the last time he had to fix something here.
UPS, Fedex, DHL have all added fuel surcharges to their rates. Surcharges will become permanent if fuel stays high

.

All I can say is...............with all the "so called" problems caused buy the fossil fuel industry..and the high cost of it......I say The more expensive it gets.........the looser the stranglehold. I see it the other way....its when OIL is cheap that they have a strangled hold on us. High fuel prices are the best thing to happen to push alternative energy...and creative thinking!!

CHEAP OIL WILL ONLY DELAY, AND WORSEN, OUR PROBLEMS.

And to be totaly honest.......I am tired of feeling sorry for everyone. Especially some RV salesman. Or some truck salesman. The downfall of the american auto industry was/ or has not been a poor economy. It's because it took them 20 years to build a car that doesn't fall apart, and poorly educated workers that held the companies hostage because they felt working on an assembly line deserved $25.00 an hr, ridicules pensions, and free healthcare for life.

Originally Posted by Maineah

I don't buy the Chinese using more oil as an excuse for raising prices in the short term. What are they burning it in? They have no cars to speak of over there. Sure the demand is up in China but they have a real long way to go before they even come close to the number of cars in California, let alone the rest of the USA. Even if they do eventually put together an infrastructure that will support a multitude of cars they cant afford $4.00 a gallon to run them!! You can bet that the third world does not pay a comparible price for gas...they simply would not use it. They only pay the equivalent of $2500.00 for a car.They sure aren't going to be able to pay $4.00 a gallon to keep it on the road.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! Forget about reading....haven't you watched TV in the last 5 years. do me a favor and google "china's growth" Take a look at the how many Cities are created each month!...its 1.3 billion people..as far as cars...they have as many highway miles as the US..and by 2020 will have twice as many. They are using the majority of the worlds concrete, iron, OIL, ...Its very good reading...and every now and them cable has some special airing about it you should really watch it.

Originally Posted by Maineah

How about heating oil. Perhaps you don't use oil and are not directly affected by the high price. There are a good many people in Maine that are going literally broke trying to pay three times more for oil than they did just a couple of years ago and there's no end in sight! Maine has a large population on a fixed income burning oil to keep warm. They are the ones who have to decide between heat, food and medical care. When it's 15 degrees out which one of the three do you think they will choose?

Give me a break!! I get so tired of hearing sob stories about people who feel they are owed something....Blame Maine's HIGH TAX BURDEN and poor business climate for not creating a stronger economy here.

AND I own apartment buildings and I pay for oil...2 years ago I used 15,000 gallons..I know what it costs. And I care about my elderly tenants. But I do NOT expect anyone to come rescue me.....no one has to live here.

I don't like the government sticking it's nose in where it doesn't belong. I do however think the country is being exploited by a greedy oil monopoly thet needs to have it's wings clipped. When the country depends on a commodity as much as we do oil you cannot leave the price control of that commodity in the hands of the producers. I don't know what the answer is but I know I don't like the strangle hold the oil companies have over this country today

I am a little confused about what you took away from my post.......and it's not fair to judge someone based soley on one post or thought......but I couldn't disagree with you anymore..........it is this libral/socialist line of thinking that is destroying this country......you want to clip their wings a little...how....a windfall tax....nationalizing oil.....Like I said before.......the last thing the OIL industry wants is for oil to be too expensive to buy...Sorry but thats how I feel.

The morality of socialism can be summed-up in two words: envy and self-sacrifice. Envy is the desire to not only possess another’s wealth but also the desire to see another’s wealth lowered to the level of one’s own.

[Shuffler]

good stuff, Cessna...pretty much what I was trying to say. High prices will force people to make better decisions. Or not, depending on the person. This country is teetering, that is for sure. I don't hear any nominees talking about it, and that is disconcerting...

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Teetering? I would say we're done teetering. We are on a slippery slope and gaining speed on the way down. Take a look at this economist's paper:

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/wp-...bini022608.pdf