Any chance BNAS to stay open? (how much, high school, gated)

[Coaster]

When my wife and I taught night school in Topsham back in the dark ages of the Cold War 1980s, many of our students were BNAS Marines who were part of the guard detachment at the base. The fact that there were nuc weapons there was widely known, and in fact the local paper carried articles about new equipment and armored vehicles being brought in to augment the guard force around the bunkers.

During the days of the Soviet Union, its planes patrolled as far south as Virginia and most of the way to Europe -- pretty much the entire North Atlantic. I was aboard one flight as a civilian observer when we were asked if we had our passports with us; the pilot had just gotten word that the flight might be extended to England. Didn't happen in the end, darn it.

With the closure of Loring AFB back in the early 1990s, BNAS became the closest military airfield to Europe in the US. The place was absolutely buzzing before and during Gulf War I and II with cargo aircraft and tankers heading to and from Europe and, I suppose, the Middle East.

As for saving it, the most recent news articles have revealed that, according to the latest numbers, it will cost the Pentagon more to close the base than to keep it open, but that hasn't yet changed the decision. With Russia rattling its sabers (and its submarine force) more lately, perhaps someone will have second thoughts. Doesn't look hopeful right now, though.

[forest beekeeper]

I was not aware of the history of these bases, prior to retiring to Maine. Thank you all for that.

The Navy was going to routinely send me to Norfolk to out-process me. I knew that NOB commonly messes up such paperwork [so out-processing may take months], and that while waiting there I would likely be placed as a crew-boss in their famous 'X-division' [the fleet's dis-enfranchised malcontents and medical discharges] doing road-side clean-up details.

Since I had decided that we wanted to retire in Maine, I asked if there was any base in New England capable of doing the task of my out-processing.

They kindly sent me to BNAS from Italy, for the clerks there to review my retirement paperwork and to process me out of Active Duty. I was only there for a week. I could only comment on what I saw going on at that time.

Because my duties in Europe had been Law Enforcement, the folks at BNAS had me spend my week at the base Police Department, where I wordsmithed their Police Reports. The Chief of Police there at the time was a gentleman that I had trained years previously.

It appeared to be a tiny base, and the only really active concern seemed to be the school. Bunkers just sit there quietly after all.

[Maineah]

I agree with forest beekeeper's earlier post about the Navy wanting to keep silent the presence of nuclear weapons on the Brunswick base but it really was no secret. It very well could have been a threat to the Soviets on how far we would go to stop their submarine fleet. Nothing like the press to spread the word even as far as Russia.
I once saw a science display on the effects of nuclear weapons on target areas.
They listed several high priority targets in Maine that they were sure the Soviets had targeted and the reason for the targeting. Limestone was a nuclear Air Force base. They listed the Large Submarine antenna array in Cutler. BNAS as a nuclear equipped anti-sub base. Bath Iron works for obvious reasons. An antenna array in Andover. and Portsmouth Naval ship yard for building submarines. It was nice to know that if they ever nuked BNAS we were sitting less than five miles from ground zero and would never know what hit us! Pleasant thought! No wonder we're all neurotic!

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

'Anti-sub'

LOL

Yeah cute, okay, well we did need to spend that money to see if that was a dead-end tech, or if it had legs. It died a long slow death. But thankfully it died.

ET1(SS)
USNavy retired

I am confused........I thought the P3's were based out of there......I thought that was a strong program........Of course i have no idea..

was that what you meant forest??

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by Maineah

They were the primary anti submarine base for the East coast to Hatteras during the cold war.They had a nuclear weapons depot there as well .I know this first hand as we were contracted through Maine Line Fence company in Yarmouth to put in chain link fence around the magazine. We got to know the guards pretty well while we were there and they told us the reason the security was so high was the nuclear weapons. They used to do intruder drills where they would tell everyone to hit the deck. You hit it or you got shot. We poo pooed it at first until they told us they'd shoot us too. After that we hit the deck !

I worked as a fencer back in Minneapolis (job I had before I moved to Maine). The company I worked for did the entire perimeter around MSP. The amount of back-ground checks and security measures was pretty hard-core. We were watched the entire time, but for some reason we were the one's responsible for any breach of security, and could only have the fence down in 50 foot increments.

I could be wrong, but I think that nuk's would be guarded by something more then a chain-link fence and a couple of armed guards who go around talking about its contents unless it was at least 6 gauge or 1" mesh and steel ties accompanied by barb and razor wire-- which would not have been fun to install to say the least.

I remember when Mather AFB and McClellen AFB (both in Sacramento, CA.) closed in the early 90's. Mather was turned into a recreational park, housing, Sacramento Mather Airport (an all-cargo airport), and business park while the hospital was transformed into a VA hospital. Not sure if the aviation museum is still there. McClellan became mostly business park, with an uncontrolled airfield. I think that the Air National Guard, Air Force Reserve and Coast Guard still operate out of it, but I am not sure. The AAFES and commissary are still there and active, mainly used by retirees, Guard and Reserve personnel. McClellan is still highly contaminated and is on the EPA's priority list. I am sure that once they clean the place up it will open for more uses. The place is huge.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by flycessna

I am confused........I thought the P3's were based out of there......I thought that was a strong program........Of course i have no idea..

was that what you meant forest??

I'm no expert and forest knows far more about this than I do. The P-3 Orion used a older locating technique for finding submarines. They dropped plastic sono buoys with pingers and telemetry electronics in them to help triangulate a submarine. Then they could come back around and drop depth charges. Forest is right about it being an old technology. Now adays there are a great many permanent echolocation stations attached to the bottom of the ocean in numbers plentiful enough to set up a grid. They can detect the most silent of submarines and triangulate them kind of like underwater GPS. Guided by the echo location grid and some other technologies to narrow down the location (still quite secret) the newer type of guided torpedoes and missles can do their work quite efficiently. When the Russian sub Kursk went down the USA knew exactly where it was and knew from the sounds they picked up from their underwater microphones that it had had both internal explosions and the hull breached by pressure. Believe me they pretty much know where everyone's subs are at any given moment these days. Then there's the stealth subs!

[forest beekeeper]

Originally Posted by flycessna

I am confused........I thought the P3's were based out of there......I thought that was a strong program........Of course i have no idea..

was that what you meant forest??

Over numerous patrols, sometimes when we had our target packages re-assigned and we awaiting new target packages, we would be assigned for a few days or a week to play with P3 Orion squadrons.

We would first mount a 150 foot whip antenna [we would always be restricted to shallow depths anyway for P3 exercises, but this allowed us to maintain continuous radio comms with each plane], go to the assigned grid, maintain radio comms with the P3s as they pass over-head and attempt to 'detect' us. Then go to periscope depth and poke up a periscope, then our radar mast and begin transmitting 5K watts at them, then our snorkel mast fire-up the diesel and run it rich so we spit out the thickest blackest column of smoke that had to be visible for forty miles in every direction.

Their air-crews would berate us for not being within the assigned grids. They could not find us so obviously we were not there.

Routinely we would be talking with their crews, following the planes visually and giving them 'marks' as they pass directly overhead.

On occasion they could finally 'detect' us.

I have never been on a boat doing P3 ops, where the planes 'detected' us without us first going to the surface and at least transmitting. Most of the time they require us to transmit and throw up smoke and give them audible 'marks' of when they are directly overhead.

We spent an entire week once with long heavy chains welded onto our hull, so they rattled as we slide through the water. It was a terribly loud noise, that just shook the boat and did not allow for any sleep. But they needed practice dropping sono-bouys and trying to figure out how to 'detect' a sub.

It was a 'strong' program. A lot of money was dumped into it. And we maintained a bunch of those planes. The aviation community is a 'strong' community with 'strong' ties to the civilian side of DOD and congress. It's 'strength' is what keeps it running.

[forest beekeeper]

Originally Posted by Maineah

... When the Russian sub Kursk went down the USA knew exactly where ...

I believe that the USS Silversides and the USS Philadelphia were both already onscene before the Kursk 'incident' became an incident.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

Over numerous patrols, sometimes when we had our target packages re-assigned and we awaiting new target packages, we would be assigned for a few days or a week to play with P3 Orion squadrons.

We would first mount a 150 foot whip antenna [we would always be restricted to shallow depths anyway for P3 exercises, but this allowed us to maintain continuous radio comms with each plane], go to the assigned grid, maintain radio comms with the P3s as they pass over-head and attempt to 'detect' us. Then go to periscope depth and poke up a periscope, then our radar mast and begin transmitting 5K watts at them, then our snorkel mast fire-up the diesel and run it rich so we spit out the thickest blackest column of smoke that had to be visible for forty miles in every direction.

Their air-crews would berate us for not being within the assigned grids. They could not find us so obviously we were not there.

Routinely we would be talking with their crews, following the planes visually and giving them 'marks' as they pass directly overhead.

On occasion they could finally 'detect' us.

I have never been on a boat doing P3 ops, where the planes 'detected' us without us first going to the surface and at least transmitting. Most of the time they require us to transmit and throw up smoke and give them audible 'marks' of when they are directly overhead.

We spent an entire week once with long heavy chains welded onto our hull, so they rattled as we slide through the water. It was a terribly loud noise, that just shook the boat and did not allow for any sleep. But they needed practice dropping sono-bouys and trying to figure out how to 'detect' a sub.

It was a 'strong' program. A lot of money was dumped into it. And we maintained a bunch of those planes. The aviation community is a 'strong' community with 'strong' ties to the civilian side of DOD and congress. It's 'strength' is what keeps it running.

I love the heavy chains! Now all we have to do is convince the enemy to weld chains to their subs.Great technology. Someone's pet project no doubt. Like the incindiary bats of WW2!

[forest beekeeper]

It was an effort to make our quite sub to generate the level of noise that a soviet sub produces.