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Old 01-24-2019, 11:51 AM
Status: "Real estate broker. 33 yrs." (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Northern Maine
10,277 posts, read 17,274,382 times
Reputation: 10981

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Berlin, NH had a thriving paper industry a quarter century ago. The mills have been up and down several times since. I heard (did not read) that ND now owns the Berlin mills. ND is Nine Dragons which is Red China. They own the Rumford mill, the mill in Old Town and the mill in Baileyville, known locally as Woodland. They know how to run a mill efficiently and make money. We do too. The difference is that legislatures see American corporations as robber barons and Red China as a benevolent owner providing jobs.
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:37 AM
 
4,016 posts, read 3,632,440 times
Reputation: 3118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
Berlin, NH had a thriving paper industry a quarter century ago. The mills have been up and down several times since. I heard (did not read) that ND now owns the Berlin mills. ND is Nine Dragons which is Red China. They own the Rumford mill, the mill in Old Town and the mill in Baileyville, known locally as Woodland. They know how to run a mill efficiently and make money. We do too. The difference is that legislatures see American corporations as robber barons and Red China as a benevolent owner providing jobs.
It’s no surprise that one of the world’s largest paper manufacturers (ND) bought profitable mills in Maine (and also in WI, where I have friends employed). This has nothing to do with American legislatures opinions favoring one over another. If an American firm would have been willing to pay more instead of a typical low-ball, short sighted ‘only look at the next two business quarters’ approach, these mills would still be American owned.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
34,867 posts, read 56,669,196 times
Reputation: 26234
Quote:
Originally Posted by damba View Post
It’s no surprise that one of the world’s largest paper manufacturers (ND) bought profitable mills in Maine (and also in WI, where I have friends employed). This has nothing to do with American legislatures opinions favoring one over another. If an American firm would have been willing to pay more instead of a typical low-ball, short sighted ‘only look at the next two business quarters’ approach, these mills would still be American owned.
"(ND) bought profitable mills in Maine" What???

Mills here have all shut-down. Every attempt to re-open them has failed up to this point. Pulp mills here have not been 'profitable' for decades.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:19 PM
 
5,703 posts, read 5,660,801 times
Reputation: 4355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
Berlin, NH had a thriving paper industry a quarter century ago. The mills have been up and down several times since. I heard (did not read) that ND now owns the Berlin mills. ND is Nine Dragons which is Red China. They own the Rumford mill, the mill in Old Town and the mill in Baileyville, known locally as Woodland. They know how to run a mill efficiently and make money. We do too. The difference is that legislatures see American corporations as robber barons and Red China as a benevolent owner providing jobs.
I need agree w/ this comment.

US in last 20yrs has lost more jobs/companies than we can count. Maine is a clearly a state that can't thrive & do well -- w/out industries that were once thriving & bread n butter to their capital/economy.
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:22 PM
 
4,016 posts, read 3,632,440 times
Reputation: 3118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
"(ND) bought profitable mills in Maine" What???

Mills here have all shut-down. Every attempt to re-open them has failed up to this point. Pulp mills here have not been 'profitable' for decades.
The mill(s) in Maine will re-open. The WI location near Stevens Point is still a working mill AFAIK. You guys need to update your knowledge base. Often when prices fluctuate you see international investments of this nature.

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/10/...disclosed-sum/
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:23 PM
 
4,016 posts, read 3,632,440 times
Reputation: 3118
Quote:
Originally Posted by movintime View Post
I need agree w/ this comment.

US in last 20yrs has lost more jobs/companies than we can count. Maine is a clearly a state that can't thrive & do well -- w/out industries that were once thriving & bread n butter to their capital/economy.
Please comment on the last part of his post.
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:30 PM
 
5,703 posts, read 5,660,801 times
Reputation: 4355
Quote:
Originally Posted by damba View Post
The mill(s) in Maine will re-open. The WI location near Stevens Point is still a working mill AFAIK. You guys need to update your knowledge base. Often when prices fluctuate you see international investments of this nature.

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/10/...disclosed-sum/
Yes, but how do they help US investments? Loot goes overseas & less workers here employed, etc.

PS - Not here to start a prob but if Maine is the OLDEST pop aged state in US, it stands to reason more closures or layoffs will NOT attract more folks here. Elderly won't work those jobs. If they send them overseas even less folks will move here & thus, cause a larger deficit in pop via this exodus of younger workers to higher wage & better business states. The pop gets older & no one moves in to offset that. Just my .02 FWIW.
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
34,867 posts, read 56,669,196 times
Reputation: 26234
Quote:
Originally Posted by damba View Post
The mill(s) in Maine will re-open.
Obviously, anyone who comes into town with $20Million burning a hole in their pocket, could re-tool an old mill and get it running again.

So long as a mill has new equipment in it, there will be enough workers to operate the mill, for a few years.

My question is whether there will be enough fore-thought among mill managers to keep the new equipment properly serviced. So in 2040 when all this new equipment begins breaking down, we will not see a repeat of what has happened in the past 10 years.
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Old 01-30-2019, 06:52 PM
Status: "Real estate broker. 33 yrs." (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Northern Maine
10,277 posts, read 17,274,382 times
Reputation: 10981
I have been in every mill in Maine. There were six mills on the Penobscot River. Five of them are gone. I don't mean closed and ready to open back up. They are GONE as in not there. Millinocket, East Millinocket, Lincoln, Brewer and Bucksport are GONE!

There is not one acre of Maine paper mill land in Maine today. NONE! Oh, the land is still there, but it is either owned by the environmental industry or has conservation easements on it so nobody will ever build a camp, home, saw mill, maple sugar operation, outfitter, marina, general store, construction company or airport. Pick any business. You can't locate in the 5,000,000 acres that used to paper company land. Buy a new DeLorme Atlas. Look at all the red markers on the maps. Those are gates. We cannot drive to fish or hunt where have for generations. How far can you drag a moose?

Ten years ago there were over 18,000 people living in the unorganized territories. Today there are fewer than 8,000. The process that caused all that displacement of our population is called rural cleansing. It is like ethnic cleansing in other places in the world.

Now the state wants any new homes or camps to be near existing homes or camps. If your family owns land and this is the year grandson wants to build a camp, they don't want him to build it unless it is within 15 minutes from an ambulance service or hospital. That eliminates about 99% of the unorganized territories. I have attended the hearings. I have the maps. I have their plans. THey want clustered development. Most people who want a camp in the woods are cluster averse. I was on the board of Unorganized Territories United back in the 1990s. In 1992, we published a map showing what the environmental industry wanted, based on their own information. Well, 27 years later, they have it.

As John Belushi said in Animal House, "Game over, Man."
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania/Maine
2,836 posts, read 1,731,458 times
Reputation: 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
I have been in every mill in Maine. There were six mills on the Penobscot River. Five of them are gone. I don't mean closed and ready to open back up. They are GONE as in not there. Millinocket, East Millinocket, Lincoln, Brewer and Bucksport are GONE!

There is not one acre of Maine paper mill land in Maine today. NONE! Oh, the land is still there, but it is either owned by the environmental industry or has conservation easements on it so nobody will ever build a camp, home, saw mill, maple sugar operation, outfitter, marina, general store, construction company or airport. Pick any business. You can't locate in the 5,000,000 acres that used to paper company land. Buy a new DeLorme Atlas. Look at all the red markers on the maps. Those are gates. We cannot drive to fish or hunt where have for generations. How far can you drag a moose?

Ten years ago there were over 18,000 people living in the unorganized territories. Today there are fewer than 8,000. The process that caused all that displacement of our population is called rural cleansing. It is like ethnic cleansing in other places in the world.

Now the state wants any new homes or camps to be near existing homes or camps. If your family owns land and this is the year grandson wants to build a camp, they don't want him to build it unless it is within 15 minutes from an ambulance service or hospital. That eliminates about 99% of the unorganized territories. I have attended the hearings. I have the maps. I have their plans. THey want clustered development. Most people who want a camp in the woods are cluster averse. I was on the board of Unorganized Territories United back in the 1990s. In 1992, we published a map showing what the environmental industry wanted, based on their own information. Well, 27 years later, they have it.

As John Belushi said in Animal House, "Game over, Man."
Always an interesting read. Thanks.
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