questions about Brunswick and Machias (Portland, Lewiston: military, gated, for sale)

[ogre]

I've posted on this forum from time to time over the past year. I first became interested in this forum because Maine is high on my list of states to consider when it's time to settle down for once and for all. With that in mind, I'm interested in learning about locations in Maine.

Right up front, I'm still several years from the time I'll be ready to make the move, close enough, though, that it's not too early to begin making a list of possible locations. I'm aiming to be able to work for myself, so for now let's assume that availability of any certain line of work is not an issue.

About a year ago, I posted a description of an ideal town, which I borrowed from another state's forum, because it resembled my ideal town. I then threw out the general question of what towns in Maine might fit. I got some interesting responses, but let's see whether I can narrow things down by providing my own description of what I'd prefer, and asking whether two towns in particular might fit. Please feel free to suggest other places, however.

Some of the characteristics I prefer in a town might seem contradictory, but that's not always true if you view it as a matter of finding the right balance between opposites. I'm realistic enough to know I'm not likely to find everything, but as close as possible would be good.

The first area where I'd like to find a nice balance: I'd like an economically prosperous town, not one where the economy is fading and all the young people are moving away. I'd like a nice clean town, where the houses are not run down, and downtown is not grimy and faded and all boarded up. At the same time that I'd like economic prosperity, I very much would like a neighborly kind of town, and I find that too much affluence tends to compromise a real sense of community. A basically prosperous town, with people working in a variety of occupations would be good.

I'd like an economically viable downtown area, not retail dominated by strip malls/big box. Downtown would have businesses to serve everyday needs (grocery store, drug store, bank, places to eat, etc.), as well as stores to serve practical needs, even if you might patronize them less often than daily (shoe store, clothing stores, barber shop, hardware store, book store, dry cleaners, etc.). Very likely, I'm looking at a town that is the commercial and service center for its local area. I would like to be able to find most shopping and everyday recreation right in town. It would be a plus, for example, if I lived in the town where people from the local area would go to see a movie or go bowling. Notice that I'm talking about simple everyday entertainment, and stores that serve practical needs. Antique shops might be okay, but not if they dominated downtown in place of more practically oriented businesses. I'd like a town that's not too toristy. Another balancing act here since I'm looking for a service center town, because I do want a town with a sense of community, which is most likely in a smaller town, while somewhat larger towns are more likely to have the commercial variety I seek. So, I'd strike the balance by looking for the smallest town that would have the variety of businesses and services I'd like.

Another balancing act: It's not absolutely necessary, but being fairly close to a city would be a plus. However, again there's that sense of community I'm looking for. I would want my town to be far enough from a city not to be a suburb. When a good portion of the local populace live and work and seek entertainment right in town, people cross paths with their neighbors more frequently than they do if they're all commuting all over a metropolitan area. Seeing your neighbors throughout the day enhances that sense of community. So, kind of close to a city would be a plus, not absolutely necessary, but a plus if it can be found, but not too close to a city. Obviously, of the two towns I'm asking about specifically, Machias is not near a city, so my question would be whether Brunswick is far enough from Portland to avoid being mainly a bedroom town.

I'd prefer to live in a neighborhood, rather than a rural area on the edge of town. I'd like to be able to walk to many of the places I'd need to get to around town.

Looking for down-to-earth attitudes and politcs. My views are more or less mainstream conservative (it gets a little more complex, but this gives you the basic idea). Debate and discussion are fine, as long as people respect others' right to their views. Mainly, my ideal town's prevailing attitude would temper the various political views with a good dose of common sense. I would VERY much prefer to avoid oppressive politcal correctness, with its attitude of undisguised hostility toward those whose views are not far to the left. This is another balancing act, because, though again it's not an absolute requirement, I'd like to live in (preferably), or at least very close to, a town with a college, for the opportunity to use the college's library, listen to a speaker on campus, attend the occasional sports event, maybe take a class every so often. I wonder whether the small size of the colleges in Brunswick and Machias means that the colleges do not dominate their home towns with far-left politics.

The same balance applies to the presence of students as well. If there are some young people around, it lends a community a good dose of idealism and energy, but too many college kids is . . . too many. The question would be whether the student population in Machias and/or Brunswick is small enough to avoid the problems of encountering noisy, drunken college kids at every turn all over town.

Well, okay, those are the basics. I'd appreciate any insight any of you could provide about whether Brunswick or Machias, or other towns, would have a lot of what I'm looking for. Thank you. Hmm, this is kind of a long post. There are a lot of details to consider in finding the right place to settle down. Thank you for reading through, and offering your ideas. Take care all.

[Acadianlion]

I gather that you have never been to Maine for a longer period than a short vacation at that.

Maine is a very small state in terms of population. Most towns in Maine are very small towns, and elsewhere on this forum are discussions about towns of a variety sized and shapes. Look up the populations of the towns in Maine, and then consider what it might mean for a "large" town in one area to have three thousand people, and then think about how many downtown stores, restaurants, and friendly neighborhoods there might be in such a small town. Many towns in Maine are probably not more populous than the neighborhood that you live in right now.

You should probably give up the idea that you are going to live in a town whose economic and mercantile scene isn't dominated by big boxes or strip malls. The little downtowns of Maine are fast disappearing and in place is Generica: the big box, strip mall way of doing business. Maine is not some "Our Town" utopia that is immune to the greater forces that drive commerce in this country. However, the further east and north in Maine that you go, the smaller the towns, and the fewer the strip malls and big boxes you will find. For a while, there will be no big boxes in Machias, but Brunswick is a suburb of greater Portland now, and that is pretty much a city like any other generic city in this country.

Politically Maine is a very liberal state. The colleges in Maine have relatively little impact on the politics of the state. I lived in Waterville for some years, and found that the impact of Colby College on the town was next to zero, politically. Maine's liberalism comes from years of labor union mentality that pervaded the Democratic Party, and made it the strongest political force in Maine. One by product of that has been the large scale desertion of Maine by large employers who have taken there employment elsewhere when faced with a state that is largely hostile to employment and to business.

A recurring theme on this forum is the absense of "good jobs". That is correct. "Good jobs" are very hard to find in Maine, in part because of the small population base, and in part because being an employer in Maine is a very very difficult row to hoe. This is not going to change until new kinds of industry are made welcome here, and those industries will need to be on some sort of econmic/industrial model than the old fading industrial model of the 19th century. Since Maine is so far from everywhere, and since transportation costs are, and have become so high, it is unlikely that there will be much improvement in the job's scene in the next decade or so.

If coming to Maine requires that one find a good "job", I would suggest that one stay in the greater Portland area. If the essential small town atmosphere is what is of interest, then one will feel comfortable in most of Maine, provided that that person has an entrepreneurial spirit and a willingness and ability to find a way to create his own job and welfare system.

As I always say to people writing comments like these, if you can't spend some serious time with your "boots on the ground" here in Maine, and I am speaking of more than a fast paced vacation where you cover a most of the state in two weeks, you simply won't "get it" and have no more than an inaccurate fantasy about what Maine is.

You sound like you are either fairly young and trying to find a place for yourself, or you are nearing retirement age. If it is the latter, then you need to plan on taking several trips over the next few years and visiting this very large and diverse state.

[Mainer61]

If it's between Brunswick and Machias....from what you say, I think Brunswick.

[dramamama6685]

Originally Posted by ogre

I've posted on this forum from time to time over the past year. I first became interested in this forum because Maine is high on my list of states to consider when it's time to settle down for once and for all. With that in mind, I'm interested in learning about locations in Maine.

Right up front, I'm still several years from the time I'll be ready to make the move, close enough, though, that it's not too early to begin making a list of possible locations. I'm aiming to be able to work for myself, so for now let's assume that availability of any certain line of work is not an issue.

About a year ago, I posted a description of an ideal town, which I borrowed from another state's forum, because it resembled my ideal town. I then threw out the general question of what towns in Maine might fit. I got some interesting responses, but let's see whether I can narrow things down by providing my own description of what I'd prefer, and asking whether two towns in particular might fit. Please feel free to suggest other places, however.

Some of the characteristics I prefer in a town might seem contradictory, but that's not always true if you view it as a matter of finding the right balance between opposites. I'm realistic enough to know I'm not likely to find everything, but as close as possible would be good.

The first area where I'd like to find a nice balance: I'd like an economically prosperous town, not one where the economy is fading and all the young people are moving away. I'd like a nice clean town, where the houses are not run down, and downtown is not grimy and faded and all boarded up. At the same time that I'd like economic prosperity, I very much would like a neighborly kind of town, and I find that too much affluence tends to compromise a real sense of community. A basically prosperous town, with people working in a variety of occupations would be good.

I'd like an economically viable downtown area, not retail dominated by strip malls/big box. Downtown would have businesses to serve everyday needs (grocery store, drug store, bank, places to eat, etc.), as well as stores to serve practical needs, even if you might patronize them less often than daily (shoe store, clothing stores, barber shop, hardware store, book store, dry cleaners, etc.). Very likely, I'm looking at a town that is the commercial and service center for its local area. I would like to be able to find most shopping and everyday recreation right in town. It would be a plus, for example, if I lived in the town where people from the local area would go to see a movie or go bowling. Notice that I'm talking about simple everyday entertainment, and stores that serve practical needs. Antique shops might be okay, but not if they dominated downtown in place of more practically oriented businesses. I'd like a town that's not too toristy. Another balancing act here since I'm looking for a service center town, because I do want a town with a sense of community, which is most likely in a smaller town, while somewhat larger towns are more likely to have the commercial variety I seek. So, I'd strike the balance by looking for the smallest town that would have the variety of businesses and services I'd like.

Another balancing act: It's not absolutely necessary, but being fairly close to a city would be a plus. However, again there's that sense of community I'm looking for. I would want my town to be far enough from a city not to be a suburb. When a good portion of the local populace live and work and seek entertainment right in town, people cross paths with their neighbors more frequently than they do if they're all commuting all over a metropolitan area. Seeing your neighbors throughout the day enhances that sense of community. So, kind of close to a city would be a plus, not absolutely necessary, but a plus if it can be found, but not too close to a city. Obviously, of the two towns I'm asking about specifically, Machias is not near a city, so my question would be whether Brunswick is far enough from Portland to avoid being mainly a bedroom town.

I'd prefer to live in a neighborhood, rather than a rural area on the edge of town. I'd like to be able to walk to many of the places I'd need to get to around town.

Looking for down-to-earth attitudes and politcs. My views are more or less mainstream conservative (it gets a little more complex, but this gives you the basic idea). Debate and discussion are fine, as long as people respect others' right to their views. Mainly, my ideal town's prevailing attitude would temper the various political views with a good dose of common sense. I would VERY much prefer to avoid oppressive politcal correctness, with its attitude of undisguised hostility toward those whose views are not far to the left. This is another balancing act, because, though again it's not an absolute requirement, I'd like to live in (preferably), or at least very close to, a town with a college, for the opportunity to use the college's library, listen to a speaker on campus, attend the occasional sports event, maybe take a class every so often. I wonder whether the small size of the colleges in Brunswick and Machias means that the colleges do not dominate their home towns with far-left politics.

The same balance applies to the presence of students as well. If there are some young people around, it lends a community a good dose of idealism and energy, but too many college kids is . . . too many. The question would be whether the student population in Machias and/or Brunswick is small enough to avoid the problems of encountering noisy, drunken college kids at every turn all over town.

Well, okay, those are the basics. I'd appreciate any insight any of you could provide about whether Brunswick or Machias, or other towns, would have a lot of what I'm looking for. Thank you. Hmm, this is kind of a long post. There are a lot of details to consider in finding the right place to settle down. Thank you for reading through, and offering your ideas. Take care all.

Very descriptive, but one thing seems to be omitted. You said you would likely be working for yourself when you make your move. What field would you be working in as that may play a key factor in the recommendations/feedback you get?

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by ogre

The first area where I'd like to find a nice balance: I'd like an economically prosperous town, not one where the economy is fading and all the young people are moving away. I'd like a nice clean town, where the houses are not run down, and downtown is not grimy and faded and all boarded up. At the same time that I'd like economic prosperity, I very much would like a neighborly kind of town, and I find that too much affluence tends to compromise a real sense of community. A basically prosperous town, with people working in a variety of occupations would be good.

I'd like an economically viable downtown area, not retail dominated by strip malls/big box. Downtown would have businesses to serve everyday needs (grocery store, drug store, bank, places to eat, etc.), as well as stores to serve practical needs, even if you might patronize them less often than daily (shoe store, clothing stores, barber shop, hardware store, book store, dry cleaners, etc.). Very likely, I'm looking at a town that is the commercial and service center for its local area. I would like to be able to find most shopping and everyday recreation right in town. It would be a plus, for example, if I lived in the town where people from the local area would go to see a movie or go bowling. Notice that I'm talking about simple everyday entertainment, and stores that serve practical needs. Antique shops might be okay, but not if they dominated downtown in place of more practically oriented businesses. I'd like a town that's not too toristy. Another balancing act here since I'm looking for a service center town, because I do want a town with a sense of community, which is most likely in a smaller town, while somewhat larger towns are more likely to have the commercial variety I seek. So, I'd strike the balance by looking for the smallest town that would have the variety of businesses and services I'd like.

That's Brunswick.

Just yesterday, my wife old me: "You know what I like about Brunswick? All the stores on Maine Street are open, and none of them (except for a bank or two) are chains. They're all independently owned."

Originally Posted by ogre

Another balancing act: It's not absolutely necessary, but being fairly close to a city would be a plus. However, again there's that sense of community I'm looking for. I would want my town to be far enough from a city not to be a suburb. When a good portion of the local populace live and work and seek entertainment right in town, people cross paths with their neighbors more frequently than they do if they're all commuting all over a metropolitan area. Seeing your neighbors throughout the day enhances that sense of community. So, kind of close to a city would be a plus, not absolutely necessary, but a plus if it can be found, but not too close to a city. Obviously, of the two towns I'm asking about specifically, Machias is not near a city, so my question would be whether Brunswick is far enough from Portland to avoid being mainly a bedroom town.

Brunswick is a bedroom town, not only for Portland, but also places like Augusta, Lewiston, and Auburn. But there is still a viable sense of community. It's not like it's all 'burbs.

When we feel the need to go to a city (which ain't very often), we tend to go to Portland.

Originally Posted by ogre

I'd prefer to live in a neighborhood, rather than a rural area on the edge of town. I'd like to be able to walk to many of the places I'd need to get to around town.

In Brunswick, there are definitely close-to-downtown neighborhoods. There are also farther-out neighborhoods. You can have either.

Originally Posted by ogre

Looking for down-to-earth attitudes and politcs. My views are more or less mainstream conservative (it gets a little more complex, but this gives you the basic idea). Debate and discussion are fine, as long as people respect others' right to their views. Mainly, my ideal town's prevailing attitude would temper the various political views with a good dose of common sense. I would VERY much prefer to avoid oppressive politcal correctness, with its attitude of undisguised hostility toward those whose views are not far to the left. This is another balancing act, because, though again it's not an absolute requirement, I'd like to live in (preferably), or at least very close to, a town with a college, for the opportunity to use the college's library, listen to a speaker on campus, attend the occasional sports event, maybe take a class every so often. I wonder whether the small size of the colleges in Brunswick and Machias means that the colleges do not dominate their home towns with far-left politics.

Brunswick has both. Being both a college and military-town, as well as a long history of blue collar workers, you'll get all views. You'll find far left hippies sipping green tea and espousing the virtues of hemp underewear, and you'll find guys with crewcuts driving pick-up trucks. There's a very live and let live attitude. As long as you don't push your views on others, they'll generally give you the same respect.

Originally Posted by ogre

The same balance applies to the presence of students as well. If there are some young people around, it lends a community a good dose of idealism and energy, but too many college kids is . . . too many. The question would be whether the student population in Machias and/or Brunswick is small enough to avoid the problems of encountering noisy, drunken college kids at every turn all over town.

Unless you live next door to a frat house (most are on Maine, right by the college) or next door to a building that rents to students, you should be fine. There are occasional complaints, but Bowdoin really isn't known as being a party school.

Most of the encounters you'll have with college kids are seeing them on their laptops at the local coffee house.

Originally Posted by ogre

I'd appreciate any insight any of you could provide about whether Brunswick or Machias, or other towns, would have a lot of what I'm looking for.

We moved to Brunswick last year. We love it. I've heard Machias is nice, too, but I've never been there.

My only complaints about Brunswick so far:

Summer bugs. But you're going to get that anywhere in New England, and it's definitely less buggy here than New Hampshire or Massachusetts.

I have to drive to Portland to get to the nearest comic book store.

Tourist season. Don't get me wrong. 95% of the tourists are great. But come mid to late June, it seems like there are 5,000 more cars on the road. If you have stuff to do on Maine Street on a Saturday, your best bet is to find a place to park and walk.

The upcoming base closure has some people nervous. I don't think it's going to kill the town, but it's definitely going to hurt. Some other industries are already slotted to move in, but there's definitely going to be a lot of homes for sale in a few years.

[ogre]

Thank you for all of your ideas and info. It sounds as if Brunswick might be a decent fit, though it does lose a few points when I read that s-word (suburb) associated with it. We'll see what happens when I do get a good list of possibilities and then give them a close look.

I get the feeling that some of you may have the idea that I'm getting kind of pie-in-the-sky, looking for a fantasy town that doesn't exist in the real world. Truth is that I actually did once live in a town very similar to what I've described as ideal. Even that town had a few details I would have changed to make it perfect, but the real-world version was close enough. Unfortunately, that particular town is no longer what it was. It's located in an area that back when was the outer fringe of a metro area, beyond the primary commuting range. The area has grown quite a bit, though, and my ideal all-American independent real town of yesteryear is now pretty much a suburb. What that place used to be does show that towns of the sort I'm seeking do exist. Difficult to find, unfortunately.

Also, what I describe in the original post as the ideal is exactly that--an ideal to use as a model. As close as possible to that model would be what I'd like to find, but I am realistic about the fact that no place is likely to have all those qualities 100 percent.

That said, thanks for your responses. I'll keep your ideas in mind.

[AustinB]

Originally Posted by ogre

Thank you for all of your ideas and info. It sounds as if Brunswick might be a decent fit, though it does lose a few points when I read that s-word (suburb) associated with it. We'll see what happens when I do get a good list of possibilities and then give them a close look.

I get the feeling that some of you may have the idea that I'm getting kind of pie-in-the-sky, looking for a fantasy town that doesn't exist in the real world. Truth is that I actually did once live in a town very similar to what I've described as ideal. Even that town had a few details I would have changed to make it perfect, but the real-world version was close enough. Unfortunately, that particular town is no longer what it was. It's located in an area that back when was the outer fringe of a metro area, beyond the primary commuting range. The area has grown quite a bit, though, and my ideal all-American independent real town of yesteryear is now pretty much a suburb. What that place used to be does show that towns of the sort I'm seeking do exist. Difficult to find, unfortunately.

Also, what I describe in the original post as the ideal is exactly that--an ideal to use as a model. As close as possible to that model would be what I'd like to find, but I am realistic about the fact that no place is likely to have all those qualities 100 percent.

That said, thanks for your responses. I'll keep your ideas in mind.

It did sound like you wanted to live in Mayberry, with Mt. Pilot just up the way.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by ogre

It sounds as if Brunswick might be a decent fit, though it does lose a few points when I read that s-word (suburb) associated with it.

I hear you, but don't let the concept scare you off. We moved out of the Seattle/Tacoma suburbs, where were H-E-double-hockey sticks. Awful place.

Brunswick doesn't fit my own concept of the word "suburb," which conjures images of cookie-cutter developments interspersed with strip malls. That isn't Brunswick.

That being said, definitely pay a visit. And take the time to look around. When we made our move, we drove all over northern New England and upstate New York. Some of the places we thought we'd love, we didn't like much at all. Places we didn't think we'd like, we ended up liking quite a lot. And we discovered some real gems that hadn't even made our list to begin with.

If you're looking for a Mayberry in the northeast, keep in mind that New England is tourist country. It seems like half of Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York flood northern New England come late June. Nothing wrong with that, and most of the summer folks are great people. But it doesn't make for much of a Mayberry.

Besides New England, you ought to check out upstate New York as well. There's some very nice areas up there.

[ogre]

Originally Posted by AustinB

It did sound like you wanted to live in Mayberry, with Mt. Pilot just up the way.

Even though I'd prefer to actually live in a town rather than a city, since I'd like somewhat of a full-service town (basic services and businesses), I guess it's more like Mt. Pilot with Raleigh just up the way , but you do have the idea. As I said, though, this is the ideal model, and I'm trying to ferret out something as close as possible to the ideal, rather than expecting any place to be perfect in every way. I think you're onto the basic idea of approximately what I'd be looking for. Thanks for adding your thoughts.

[ogre]

Originally Posted by Mark S.

I hear you, but don't let the concept scare you off. We moved out of the Seattle/Tacoma suburbs, where were H-E-double-hockey sticks. Awful place.

Brunswick doesn't fit my own concept of the word "suburb," which conjures images of cookie-cutter developments interspersed with strip malls. That isn't Brunswick.

That being said, definitely pay a visit. And take the time to look around. When we made our move, we drove all over northern New England and upstate New York. Some of the places we thought we'd love, we didn't like much at all. Places we didn't think we'd like, we ended up liking quite a lot. And we discovered some real gems that hadn't even made our list to begin with.

If you're looking for a Mayberry in the northeast, keep in mind that New England is tourist country. It seems like half of Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York flood northern New England come late June. Nothing wrong with that, and most of the summer folks are great people. But it doesn't make for much of a Mayberry.

Besides New England, you ought to check out upstate New York as well. There's some very nice areas up there.

Some good ideas here. Thanks for sharing them. I do realize that there are suburbs and then there are other suburbs. Truth be told, the town I mentioned a few posts ago where I once lived that was close to what I'm looking for (and actually is the basic model for same) had a portion of its population that commuted, even back then before it had become the unmitigated suburb that it is now. However, there was a large enough portion of the town's population living, working, shopping, etc., right in town, so that you'd run across people you knew all over town while going about your daily activities. To me, this seems to enhance a sense of community that gets kind of watered down when a town's entire population leaves town every day and traipses all over a metro area for their daily activities, basically just sleeping in the town where they have their homes.

It also helps enhance that sense of community when a town has a variety of activities that make it more than a bedroom community. The model for my ideal town had a small college and a substantial economic base of light manufacturing, which added to the sense that it was its own independent town.

I was hoping that Portland was a small enough city so that Brunswick would lie beyond prime commuting range. People everywhere do seem to be going in for longer commutes than they used to, though. As you pointed out, not all suburbs are the same. And, in line with what several people have suggested, once the time comes to home in on the right place, I'll certainly plan on visiting to see what various towns are really like.

Thanks for sharing your ideas.