Should Northern Maine have a right to exist?? (Portland, Lewiston: school, property taxes)

[Northern Maine Land Man]

"didn't dhs lose like 30 million dollars a few years ago?"

It was $138,000,000, but Augusta isn't even interested enough to look to see who got it!

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by CapeCodder

Doesn't this happen in a lot (if not all/most) of states? I have no children...I still pay taxes for schools, lots of people don't drive, yet pay taxes to maintain roads. Maine is Maine...north or south...doesn't matter. Maybe I'm simplifying this...but arguments like these drive me nuts (I know...don't read it...but it's like a car accident...you just hafta look).

I don't know..........does it?


Do all states have dying areas where there is little to no industry. Are those areas geographically twice the size of the rest of the state. Do those states have libral policies that enable anyone below a certain income to get government assistance, and Maine care.

There's a lot to discuss......but there's too much pride for some to open their eyes to have broad based discussions. And some just hate any kind of negativity that comes with a debate. Out of three/four pages of posts....only a few were informative.....everyone else was just ranting.

[Labamba]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

"didn't dhs lose like 30 million dollars a few years ago?"

It was $138,000,000, but Augusta isn't even interested enough to look to see who got it!

Was it really that much? My memory is getting fuzzy.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by flycessna

I don't know..........does it?


Do all states have dying areas where there is little to no industry. Are those areas geographically twice the size of the rest of the state. Do those states have libral policies that enable anyone below a certain income to get government assistance, and Maine care.

There's a lot to discuss......but there's too much pride for some to open their eyes to have broad based discussions. And some just hate any kind of negativity that comes with a debate. Out of three/four pages of posts....only a few were informative.....everyone else was just ranting

Guilty as charged....No one got hurt and it was pretty spirited!
We could always return to recipe swapping and the best place to get Fluffy groomed if you like!! LOL

[Maine Writer]

Originally Posted by shadowfax1997

Finally a debate on this forum. It does get tiring reading some of the threads - all nice and neat and such.

Here are some facts for my town - raymond and eastport. The data comes from 2004 Fiscal Survey Report index

It's much easier to debate when the facts are in front of me. Thanks! I'll distract myself from writing a new business plan by reading this info.

I do enjoy a good debate when it doesn't get personal (debate issues, not people). I was a union negotiator for three years and enjoyed the debating and bargaining.

We haven't had our town meeting yet. I'm not concerned about going to the meeting this year. The school budget was lower this year, it's already been approved and voted on (early because of consolidation needs) and not one person asked a question once I was done explaining the budget. The school budget dropped 3 mils off the tax bill this year. We've stripped it down to absolutely no extra as we get ready to move into the new RSU.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by Zymer

This fits my town, so I'll throw in my 2 cents...I just got my property tax bill for $2G, the bulk of that (IIRC) goes to the school system (and I don't have kids).

What's left over, plus vehicle excises taxes pays for the rest of the stuff. Obviously, roads that are designated as State Routes get maintained with state funds. The other roads...well, they vote the budget and whatever money is appropriated gets used for that, for example a small stretch (less than 1/2 mile?) of the road I live on was re-paved this year- that's all the money there was, so that's all that got done.

(Snow plowing & salt are a seperate item in the budget.)

I think the FD is mostly volunteer, what little money there is for that goes to maintain the equipment.

We don't have a police department- a line item in the budget sets aside some money to pay for a Deputy from the County to be on call for 40 hrs/wk. (Which I think is a waste of money.)

I think the bigest town salary is the Code Enforcement Officer...which I think is another waste of money but that's just me.

We do what we can with what we have, I don't recall seeing anything in the budget showing funds rec'd from the State, but I could very well have missed it.

If memory serves, I think nearly 3/4 of the property tax money goes to the school system. I think the subject of schools deserves some debate, in particular, "What level of education should be regarded as minimally acceptable?" and "Just exactly how much responsibility for what level of education should the public be required to pay for?"

I think there is a great deal of money being wasted, not just in the state, but in the school systems throughout the country. Sure, a state-of-the-art, multi-million dollar HS chem lab is nice...but how many of the students will actually USE any of the knowledge that teachers [try to] impart there? How many students actually USE advanced mathematics like Algebra, Trigonometry and Calculus once they get out of school?

Frankly, we are NOT all created "equal". We all have different levels of comprehension and abilities. Take me, for example- "solve for 'x'? Forget it, I suck at math. Give me a pencil and paper and I can do the basics, but the money spent trying to teach me Alg, Trig and Calc was a total waste.

Personally, I think school systems should be totally revamped. There is no need for every school in every town to [try to] teach everything. We waste gobs of money trying to teach kids things they'll never use, and then [in comparison] almost completely neglect things that will be important for the rest of their lives and in return we get generations of kids that can't manage their own personal budget or use credit responsibly and know little or nothing about the history of out country and responsible government...who then become politicians and *really* screw things up for *everybody* (my apologies to any honest politicians who are really trying to do some good for the public rather than themselves...we do still have some of those left...don't we?).

/rant

That's right Zymer...we should teach brewing in school!! Something practical!

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Zymer posts"
"We do what we can with what we have, I don't recall seeing anything in the budget showing funds rec'd from the State, but I could very well have missed it."

The state sends incorporated towns some money for the "highway fund". The town uses it to maintain roads. This money comes from our gas taxes which went up on July 1 this year. The Unorganized Territories don't get this reimbursement.

[Maineah]

Again no one is blaming Unorganized Townships for anything. The fact they are unorganized should tells us something! Many in the unorganized areas DO NOT want State help. They enjoy the independence of being an unorganized town! More power to them! The State needs a town structured government in place to deal with for any funding issues. Stay unorganized and avoid all the hassles of town politics. Brilliant!

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

flycessna asks:
"1st................what fight??

2nd.......So I guess you feel there is no net migration of tax dollars flowing into northern maine from souther maine?"

Glad you asked.

We have been in a struggle for freedom since 1971 when we lost the right to govern ourselves or even vote for those who do govern us. It isn't a matter of civil procedure. It's a matter of human rights.

We have about 9 million acres up here that pay taxes to Augusta directly and all the citizens that also pay the same income and sales taxes as those in the incorporated towns. Sure we have people on welfare up here and some schools in the incorporated towns. We pay for them. Augusta skims the cream off the top. We don't have huge concert halls and swimming pools in our public schools.

So I "think" your beef is this; You represent 2/3 of Maine geographically and pay taxes on that land, your residence pay the same taxes as everyone else, but you don't get the same representation in Augusta through concert halls and swimming pools (examples I know).

IF I am getting your point, I can't say I agree. You have the right to live there, you also have the right to band together and build your own concert halls and pools ect. I guess its hard for me to be in your shoes because I don't live there....But I DO believe there IS a net migration of tax dollars already going into to support most of the people who live north of Bangor. I also question what kind of return on investment we will ever see.

People up there get the benifit of recieving nearly twice the subsidies that people down here get.....but when ever there is an opportunity for growth I see a lot of envriomentals coming out of the wood work.

[CapeCodder]

Originally Posted by flycessna

I don't know..........does it?


Do all states have dying areas where there is little to no industry. Are those areas geographically twice the size of the rest of the state. Do those states have libral policies that enable anyone below a certain income to get government assistance, and Maine care.

There's a lot to discuss......but there's too much pride for some to open their eyes to have broad based discussions. And some just hate any kind of negativity that comes with a debate. Out of three/four pages of posts....only a few were informative.....everyone else was just ranting.

For the sake of discussion...do you have any thoughts for a solution?