Heating issues (Waterville: section 8, apartment, rental)

[nicnicman]

Hi everyone,

Recently, my grandfather offered to sell me his house in Waterville, ME. It's a two story house that was once two units. My grandfather has never used the upstairs for anything other than storage.

I've been renting for about seven years now and I am ready to buy my own property. My plan is to renovate the upstairs into a livable apartment to help pay the bills. As nothing has been done to the second floor apartment in 25+ years, there is a lot of work to do. The biggest question I have is how to heat it.

The downstairs unit is heated using a oil forced hot air system with an electric tank hot water heater. The only heating the upstairs ever had was a small kerosene heater which was also used to cook meals. The floor between the two units is insulated because my grandparents only used the first floor. The attic is not, but will be. The windows are decent. There are no forced air ducts in place for the upstairs. The upstairs unit is about 900 sq feet. The existing furnace is about 20 years old but has been extremely well maintained.

Some ideas others have given me include: electric baseboard, monitor heaters, and munchkin boilers. From what I heard the last will provide the hot water for the baseboard units, and the sinks, shower, etc. No separate hot water heater. Also, right now electric seems to be comparable to propane and oil but history shows that this could change.

I would like to keep the heating bills and water heating bills separate if possible. It is important to me to keep the tenants heating bills reasonable while keeping my upfront costs reasonable.

I have very little experience in these areas and I am having a hard time to make a decision. Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Thanks
nicnicman

[Cornerguy1]

If you're going to rent on a "monthly rent + utilities" basis, then there's no real reason to keep the water heating and general heating bills seperate.

The most economical method (assuming your electrical service has the capacity) for you, the landlord, is to bung in some electric baseboard heaters and install an electric hot water tank for the upstairs unit.

Does the upstairs unit currently have a seperate electrical service and meter? In some jurisdictions, these are required if teneants are to be responsible for utility payments.

[nicnicman]

To me it seems that the tenant would be more conservative with their heat if they were footing the bill. Thre are separate electric service and meters but it is an old fuse box type and will need to be updated. Electric baseboard seems like the best upfront cost but I'm also trying to think of the future.
I've heard a lot of negatives about electric (mainly cost) and I'm worried that the tenant or myself will have outrageous electric bills.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions please keep them coming.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

The most efficient heating unit today is a Monitor type heater. Personally I prefer a Rinnai because the long term maintenance costs are lower. For them to work properly of course, the room doors must be open. With a rental unit, privacy can be a concern so electric heat could be used for one or two rooms.

What is the access to the second floor?

Good luck with your project.

[roadrat]

Being a land lord even for just a single apartment can be a real pain in the a$$, If you don't include the heat you will have to offer very low rent, this will draw tenants that are shall we say "low rent" , you also don't want your "low rent tenant" getting creative and tring to heat the apartment with something that ends up burning the place to the ground.
I would tie the heat into your furnace if you can and maybe suppliment your heat with a pellet stove to help keep your oil use down, also if you can afford it replace the 20 year old furnce with a new more effient model.
Some other tips for the apartment make it a one bedroom, this will make it harder to rent but will also give you the option of refusing to rent to anyone with children (welfare mothers on section 8 tend to attract large drunk/stoned baby daddys who will then proceed to unoffially move in), you can also refuse to rent to a couple of young 20 somethings who will party till dawn with 30 of there closes dringking buddies on a tuesday night.
tip #2 Do not allow smokers, you will have to repaint the place for each new tenant.
tip #3 establish a strict overnight guest policy, no more than one guest for 1 or 2 nights per month or week,(there is nothing like being late for work because Joe tenants 6 drinking buddies are spending the night and have blocked your car in) figure out what is best for you.
tip #4 establish a strict parking policy (see tip #3).

hope this helps.

bill

[nicnicman]

Wow Bill (roadrat) I appreciate the tips, but your starting to make me a little nervous about being a landlord. Like you said it may be wise to replace the 20 yr old furnace, then run basboard upstairs, and leave the option open to hook to the new furnace in the future to heat the downstairs. Are there furnaces that heat both hot water baseboard and forced air in one unit?

What about the hot water for the sinks, showers, etc? Will one furnace take care of this or will I need to install another hot water heater. There is an existing electric hot water to heat the downstairs but I believe its only large enough for the downstairs (I think it may be a 30 gallon tank).

There are so many options that I'm having a hard time to decide which will work best.

NMLM there is a stairway in the front (inside but separated from the house with a door) and I will be building a second outdoor stairway and small deck in the back. The existing stairway goes directly over the master bedroom and I don't want to hear the foot traffic.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and please post more.

Nick

[wordsmith680]

I had a similar situation with an duplex I purchased and rehabed. Initially I had intended to install a hot water (nat gas) boiler. After weighing all options inculding initial cost I went with Hydrosil baseboad electric for the unheated upstairs. After four years this has been a resonable cost option. (I do have residual heat from the lower unit) Electric Heater, Electric Baseboard Heat - Hydro-Sil (For your info, I am a customer from four years ago)

[nicnicman]

Wordsmith680

The floor between the two units is insulated and probably wouldn't allow much residual heat to pass through (Blown in insulation).

By the way did you pay for the heat or your tenants?

[nicnicman]

I've read mixed reviews on Hydro-sil electric baseboard heaters. They almost seem to good to be true. Anyone have any experience with these?

[island mermaid]

Originally Posted by roadrat

Being a land lord even for just a single apartment can be a real pain in the a$$, If you don't include the heat you will have to offer very low rent, this will draw tenants that are shall we say "low rent" , you also don't want your "low rent tenant" getting creative and tring to heat the apartment with something that ends up burning the place to the ground.
I would tie the heat into your furnace if you can and maybe suppliment your heat with a pellet stove to help keep your oil use down, also if you can afford it replace the 20 year old furnce with a new more effient model.
Some other tips for the apartment make it a one bedroom, this will make it harder to rent but will also give you the option of refusing to rent to anyone with children (welfare mothers on section 8 tend to attract large drunk/stoned baby daddys who will then proceed to unoffially move in), you can also refuse to rent to a couple of young 20 somethings who will party till dawn with 30 of there closes dringking buddies on a tuesday night.
tip #2 Do not allow smokers, you will have to repaint the place for each new tenant.
tip #3 establish a strict overnight guest policy, no more than one guest for 1 or 2 nights per month or week,(there is nothing like being late for work because Joe tenants 6 drinking buddies are spending the night and have blocked your car in) figure out what is best for you.
tip #4 establish a strict parking policy (see tip #3).

hope this helps.

bill

Bill, isn't illegal to discriminate against a single woman w/kids? When I was a landlord at home I had to be very careful regarding the wording. Maybe it has changed within the last couple years?
I agree with the rest of your post, it's all spot on regarding guest policies and parking issues. I did allow a section 8 tenant once. At least I knew the rent was going to be paid on time. He was fine for the most part, it was his cat that had to go. Eventually they both left. After investing another couple grand into it, it was re-rentable. Lesson learned, the hard way.