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Old 10-18-2008, 04:35 PM
 
10,537 posts, read 10,328,574 times
Reputation: 14108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcarim View Post
I still think taxes should be equal across the board, rather than a sliding scale. I don't think I agree with the rich being taxed more than the poor. 10% of a million is still more than 10% of $30K. Equal taxing is only fair. I've never understood being penalized for being successful.

Next they're going to raise taxes on beautiful people and lower them for poor ugly souls! That's about how much sense it all makes to me!
good post el,, i agree to punish achievement and hard work,,is so...un-american,,,,
if you keep taxing the so called rich,,,most are small business (small businesses make up 85% of all business) then those companies doing well,,will not hire more,,will not pay health insurance,,will not expand,,,,you choke businesses,,you choke the whole economy,,
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
21,535 posts, read 27,180,026 times
Reputation: 8613
Elcarim, Mainebrokerman -

These are two different issues.

Taxing higher income brackets at higher rates, and the taxing of businesses are entirely different.

Only the 'wage-slave' [a person who knows nothing of tax-planning] will truly decide to declare a higher taxable income. Over a third of American tax-payers do not pay income taxes, they have some understanding of how income taxes work and they have plenty of tax write-offs.

Higher salaried jobs tend to be filled by people who are in a higher class where they are aware of how taxes are done, so they use a financial planner and they do not pay claim their gross income as a taxable income.



Businessmen have a huge selection of business write-offs. Their taxes are not income taxes, their taxes are in other the forms. So trying to discuss income taxes to businesses is like discussing dog food with a cat. A cat may see dog food, but it has it's own food, so why should it care if dog food is good or bad.

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Old 10-18-2008, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, CA/Dover-Foxcroft, ME
1,782 posts, read 1,862,142 times
Reputation: 2713
Here's a high energy, high caffeine 3 minute explanantion of how poor Joe is being portrayed by the media. At least this one guy's version.


YouTube - First Socialism. Now Communism...

I am one of those small businesses that will be squeezed because of any new proposed tax laws that more than likely will include small sole proprietorship businesses. I will have no incentive to expand and add employees or look for higher revenues if all I am doing is "busy work" just to keep more people working. I have paid quarterly taxes 85 times and the government has made enough money on me, I assure you. I think they could have resurfaced a small highway on my tax burden by now. People need the economy to expand, small businesses to grow and available money to borrow at reasonable rates to combat this current business atmosphere. I can only hope now that the next administration will see the light and not raise taxes to try to expand the economy. It won't help me. Even with my current tax burden, I have been fighting for my business life over the past few years. Give me incentives to add revenue and employees, not stay "small" because it is the prudent thing to do.
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Southwestern Ohio
4,104 posts, read 4,095,003 times
Reputation: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Elcarim, Mainebrokerman -

These are two different issues.

Taxing higher income brackets at higher rates, and the taxing of businesses are entirely different.

Only the 'wage-slave' [a person who knows nothing of tax-planning] will truly decide to declare a higher taxable income. Over a third of American tax-payers do not pay income taxes, they have some understanding of how income taxes work and they have plenty of tax write-offs.

Higher salaried jobs tend to be filled by people who are in a higher class where they are aware of how taxes are done, so they use a financial planner and they do not pay claim their gross income as a taxable income.



Businessmen have a huge selection of business write-offs. Their taxes are not income taxes, their taxes are in other the forms. So trying to discuss income taxes to businesses is like discussing dog food with a cat. A cat may see dog food, but it has it's own food, so why should it care if dog food is good or bad.

Forest, I have to disagree with you on one point. (this has never happened before and feels a bit awkward). I don't think of my self as a wage slave we both have jobs with no side income and our daughter is past the child tax credit age.

We have no medical, dental, or home write offs to deduct so we owe most years. That being said we were able to get a little bit back from 2 years ago due to major out of pocket dental write offs and some more back last year because our daughter is commuting to college and we're paying. I have now maxed out my 401K contribution % so that when she moves out and we cannot claim her or the money we are spending on her college, we should only be liable for a small sum instead of what we contribute plus another $2K.

For the record, the property taxes and interest on our home were only high enough the first 2 years we were here as it is a very modest home and we got it for $70K. Our standard deduction always runs higher than any exemptions though I do keep checking each year to make sure.

We also won't be able to afford to put her through college and contribute to an IRA for DH whose employer has no retirement benefits.

Also for the record, I do NOT consider myself or my DH a wage slave, but honest people who works very hard for their money and don't want to pay the tax rate for a socialist type system!

*stepping off my soapbox*
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Maine
498 posts, read 1,075,557 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by maine4.us View Post
Way to go Forest. I only disagree with you on one thing. There is NO medical procedure that costs a million bucks!!! There is no way the care can cost that much. I had a $144K hospital bill that my insurance company settled for less than 20K. Do the math and a million dollar procedure would only actually cost 140K. Hospitals are like used car dealers, if you are dumb enough to pay the asking price........
While I don't want to argue medical pricing, medical can cost a million dollars.

example -my brother in CT just had a baby in July. It had issues during pregnancy and they had a 4d catscan, or something like that, every week. When born it went straight to surgery and had several issues repaired, It still had MANY issues including no anus, colon, large intestine. It is still in the hospital. Cost for first month alone for hospital was over $250K billed to the insurance carrier. I don't know if it was reduced. Total has to be well over a million at this point, and will continue to grow.

While technically not one procedure, it is an expensive baby. Mentally it seems fine, but physically has challenges.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Glendive, MT
7,392 posts, read 8,253,695 times
Reputation: 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMoore007 View Post
Here's a high energy, high caffeine 3 minute explanantion of how poor Joe is being portrayed by the media. At least this one guy's version.


YouTube - First Socialism. Now Communism...

I am one of those small businesses that will be squeezed because of any new proposed tax laws that more than likely will include small sole proprietorship businesses. I will have no incentive to expand and add employees or look for higher revenues if all I am doing is "busy work" just to keep more people working. I have paid quarterly taxes 85 times and the government has made enough money on me, I assure you. I think they could have resurfaced a small highway on my tax burden by now. People need the economy to expand, small businesses to grow and available money to borrow at reasonable rates to combat this current business atmosphere. I can only hope now that the next administration will see the light and not raise taxes to try to expand the economy. It won't help me. Even with my current tax burden, I have been fighting for my business life over the past few years. Give me incentives to add revenue and employees, not stay "small" because it is the prudent thing to do.
My parents were also small business owners, and while I think they never really wanted to expand, I can understand exactly your position on this! great post
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
21,535 posts, read 27,180,026 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by dramamama6685 View Post
Forest, I have to disagree with you on one point. (this has never happened before and feels a bit awkward). I don't think of my self as a wage slave we both have jobs with no side income and our daughter is past the child tax credit age.

We have no medical, dental, or home write offs to deduct so we owe most years. That being said we were able to get a little bit back from 2 years ago due to major out of pocket dental write offs and some more back last year because our daughter is commuting to college and we're paying. I have now maxed out my 401K contribution % so that when she moves out and we cannot claim her or the money we are spending on her college, we should only be liable for a small sum instead of what we contribute plus another $2K.

For the record, the property taxes and interest on our home were only high enough the first 2 years we were here as it is a very modest home and we got it for $70K. Our standard deduction always runs higher than any exemptions though I do keep checking each year to make sure.

We also won't be able to afford to put her through college and contribute to an IRA for DH whose employer has no retirement benefits.

Also for the record, I do NOT consider myself or my DH a wage slave, but honest people who works very hard for their money and don't want to pay the tax rate for a socialist type system!

*stepping off my soapbox*
That is fair.

The phrase "Wage slave" sounds very insulting. For which I do apologize.

Business owners understand that according to the IRS, there are a series of schedules that can be filed out, and you list all of your business expenses.

The business owner controls this.

If he wants to have his business pay for his medical expenses, he can. The money can do documented as coming from his business instead of his personal account, and it all becomes a 'business expense'.

If a business owner wants to avoid showing any taxable profits from his business, he can.

Business owners can play great games with the IRS. And the IRS has a lot of documentation in how the game is to be played.

We have owned a catering business for example. It paid for itself, it paid the employees their wages, it stocked our home with food, and it fed us. That business never showed a taxable profit, but it paid it's employees and it fed our family.

We have owned a laundromat. It also paid for itself and it's employees, ... yet we never showed a taxable profit.

We have also owned apartment buildings. They pay for themselves, they pay for repairs, and they have provided us with a home to live in.

We were once very close to owning a car dealership. It would have paid for itself, it would have paid the employees their wages, it would have kept us supplied with autos and it would have never showed a taxable profit.




On the other hand, a wage-earner often does not feel as if he has this level of control over his taxes. If a wage-earner does not own a home, then he has no mortgage write-off. If a wage-earner has very low medical expenses, then he can not write them off either. So it is that common among wage-earners, they select a withholding status on their W2 and a set amount is with-held form their pay-checks. they feel as if they have no control in the process.

Thus they are 'slaves' to the system. They rent a home from a landlord, they pay a store for their clothing, they pay another store for their food. When the day is done, they have paid all of their money away to various business owners. They are entirely a slave to the system.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:58 PM
 
Location: southern california
48,948 posts, read 45,179,278 times
Reputation: 39921
the economy is nothing more than the collective printout of our own individual behavior.
here it is greed, unfair labor practices, and an unwillingness to pay for things that we so love to purchase.
whether a 90 inch color TV or a war in bagdad, the final result is the same, americans don't wana pay that VISA.
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Old 10-19-2008, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, CA/Dover-Foxcroft, ME
1,782 posts, read 1,862,142 times
Reputation: 2713
My federal tax forms each year are about a one inch thick. I do everything I can legally to my advantage and that is all that I can do. Same tax accountant for 20 years. If I make a taxable profit, then I must pay taxes on that amount. Also payroll, fuel, sales and local and state taxes are considerable.

What Forest says is true. You can run a business and show no taxable profit. I know about catering and it is one of the highest businesses to fail. Many are back in business under different names. Bankruptcies are high. I've always thought that laundromats and aptartment complexes were good investments.
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
6,097 posts, read 7,693,140 times
Reputation: 4073
The IRS calls us DINKs. That's Double Income, No Kids. When I worked in the paper mill and my wife was a teacher the IRS loved us. We had no mortgage and we paid huge tax rates. Now we are both self employed and have some tax deductions such as 1.5 vehicles. My truck is a business expense and part of my wife's van is business. The van is also the family vehicle so it is not completely deductible. One room in the house is an office for the two of us. We still pay high rates, but nothinmg like when I was in the mill and she was teaching.
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