Fixing the Economy-What's your thinking? (Washington: mortgages, appliances, credit card)

[dramamama6685]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

That is fair.

The phrase "Wage slave" sounds very insulting. For which I do apologize.

Business owners understand that according to the IRS, there are a series of schedules that can be filed out, and you list all of your business expenses.

The business owner controls this.

If he wants to have his business pay for his medical expenses, he can. The money can do documented as coming from his business instead of his personal account, and it all becomes a 'business expense'.

If a business owner wants to avoid showing any taxable profits from his business, he can.

Business owners can play great games with the IRS. And the IRS has a lot of documentation in how the game is to be played.

We have owned a catering business for example. It paid for itself, it paid the employees their wages, it stocked our home with food, and it fed us. That business never showed a taxable profit, but it paid it's employees and it fed our family.

We have owned a laundromat. It also paid for itself and it's employees, ... yet we never showed a taxable profit.

We have also owned apartment buildings. They pay for themselves, they pay for repairs, and they have provided us with a home to live in.

We were once very close to owning a car dealership. It would have paid for itself, it would have paid the employees their wages, it would have kept us supplied with autos and it would have never showed a taxable profit.




On the other hand, a wage-earner often does not feel as if he has this level of control over his taxes. If a wage-earner does not own a home, then he has no mortgage write-off. If a wage-earner has very low medical expenses, then he can not write them off either. So it is that common among wage-earners, they select a withholding status on their W2 and a set amount is with-held form their pay-checks. they feel as if they have no control in the process.

Thus they are 'slaves' to the system. They rent a home from a landlord, they pay a store for their clothing, they pay another store for their food. When the day is done, they have paid all of their money away to various business owners. They are entirely a slave to the system.

Apology accepted! We have never owned our own business and yes, we are at the mercy of the ever increasing tax burden of various welfare state programs and pork and things like the bailout.

Sad, but it is sad to think that if we were able to at least keep our portion of ss taxes in our own retirement accounts, we would end up extremely wealthy(by our standards) Eastport retirees. Instead, we support, not so much those who need it or those milking the system, but all the administrative costs inherently entagled in the system.

[GregW]

IMHO any thinks like food, clothing, cars, housing that a buisness provides to the owner should be considered taxable income for the owner in order to level the playing field for the rest of us.

[flycessna]

Does anyone "not" beleive that this election is about buying votes with gifts. How easy and simple minded it is to stand in front of a group of people and promise the majority of them..."I'll make your life better buy giving you stuff"

Our governement has become an extension of the materialistic ideals of the people of this nation....we all want cool stuff that we think will make us happier (new tv, nicer car, free health care) but we don't want to pay for it so we all put it on credit. Or mandate that someone else pay for it........and continue to think it doesnt costs us anything.

I will say that the one thing that really frustrates me and has not seemed to have been mentioned is our coorporate tax rate...we already have one of the highest taxes in the world...and all you have to do is look at Ireland and see the kind of transformation that country took when it lowered its coorporate tax rate to one of the lowest levels in the world...booming economy!

[boonelsewhere]

i read it from some where too, wonder what kind of bussiness that booming.
some Irish who were here in America seek to better themself went back because more opportunity back in Ireland now. i remember the housing price went up, more people move in to the area, new construction going up more services to provide. may be by have more people in the area creating jobs.

Originally Posted by flycessna

I will say that the one thing that really frustrates me and has not seemed to have been mentioned is our coorporate tax rate...we already have one of the highest taxes in the world...and all you have to do is look at Ireland and see the kind of transformation that country took when it lowered its coorporate tax rate to one of the lowest levels in the world...booming economy!

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by boonskyler

i read it from some where too, wonder what kind of bussiness that booming.
some Irish who were here in America seek to better themself went back because more opportunity back in Ireland now. i remember the housing price went up, more people move in to the area, new construction going up more services to provide. may be by have more people in the area creating jobs.

[/b]

Someone was talking about how they just came back from there and it was a "forest" of constructions cranes.

I had some friends from europe here for the summer and they said lots of young europeans are moving to ireland for work. Ireland still has many socialistic ideals and a few of them I might agree with....but even they realized by creating a more affordable place to conduct business would actually bring in more business.

[Elcarim]

Originally Posted by flycessna

Does anyone "not" beleive that this election is about buying votes with gifts. How easy and simple minded it is to stand in front of a group of people and promise the majority of them..."I'll make your life better buy giving you stuff"

Hasn't it been for years and years? And I've yet to see a president in my lifetime who has delivered on even half of his promises. These days, voting is more or less choosing the lesser of two evils, IMO.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by GregW

IMHO any thinks like food, clothing, cars, housing that a buisness provides to the owner should be considered taxable income for the owner in order to level the playing field for the rest of us.

To my knowledge, it has never been truly debated that 'Income Taxes' for the masses should be a 'level playing field'.

Income taxes for the masses is a fairly new concept in America. Before the Great Depression, our Federal government was small and had few employees. Only the Uber-wealthy paid income taxes. Most of the Federal Revenue came from import tarrifs and corporate taxes [much like it remains to this day].

Income taxes for the masses were introduced in an era when very few had jobs. The Federal government was on a drive to hire as many as they could, to try and get the economy moving. And our Income tax system was designed with the idea within it, of influencing citizen behavior.

Our system influences the masses toward home ownership, and toward being business operators.

There are things put into the tax code, as inducements to encourage folks to do.

When it was designed in the 1940s, it was not meant to be a 'level playing field'.

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by GregW

IMHO any thinks like food, clothing, cars, housing that a buisness provides to the owner should be considered taxable income for the owner in order to level the playing field for the rest of us.

I think it is. I am pretty sure if you own a restaurant you are not supposed to be eating for "free". It is reportable. who cares.......well...the IRS does!

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by GregW

IMHO any thinks like food, clothing, cars, housing that a buisness provides to the owner should be considered taxable income for the owner in order to level the playing field for the rest of us.

Actually, I think Forest should be more specific and mention that he may be using a corporation. He may not be, but that is the easiest method to avoid income taxes. If I was running a business (which I am) and wished to reduce my tax liability (which I do), I would incorporate (which I have).

This stuff is not rocket science. There are many corporate entities that can serve as tax shelters, and they do not cost much to set up nor do they require much time to operate. All you need do is contact an attorney who sets up corporations, and ask away. Should not cost you much for 1/2 hour of his time.

You do not need to be running a business to incorporate. Most folks who own corporations do run businesses - sometimes many of them. They did not start out rich. Do not call down those of us who have risked large sums of our own savings to start businesses, just to sometimes (often...) see them fail. It is quite different than being an employee. Those who take the risk, get the rewards.

If you want a level playing field, go see what your local small businessman has to put up with on a daily basis. Like most folks, you will likely prefer to remain an employee!

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

Actually, I think Forest should be more specific and mention that he may be using a corporation. He may not be, but that is the easiest method to avoid income taxes. If I was running a business (which I am) and wished to reduce my tax liability (which I do), I would incorporate (which I have).

This stuff is not rocket science. There are many corporate entities that can serve as tax shelters, and they do not cost much to set up nor do they require much time to operate. All you need do is contact an attorney who sets up corporations, and ask away. Should not cost you much for 1/2 hour of his time.

You do not need to be running a business to incorporate. Most folks who own corporations do run businesses - sometimes many of them. They did not start out rich. Do not call down those of us who have risked large sums of our own savings to start businesses, just to sometimes (often...) see them fail. It is quite different than being an employee. Those who take the risk, get the rewards.

If you want a level playing field, go see what your local small businessman has to put up with on a daily basis. Like most folks, you will likely prefer to remain an employee!

I agree.

I do not have a corporation. Though your points are valid. I have known folks who have incorporated. In many cases owning a corporation does make the paperwork easier.

I am tax exempt. No income taxes come out from my paychecks, and I have no tax obligation at the end of each year. It takes attention to detail, itemizing each year, and doing a schedule 'C', 'E' and 'F'.

I have been tax exempt since the early 80s.

During my AD career I was sent to schools to do this, and to keep up on doing this. I was certified by the IRS, and during my AD Naval career I helped my fellow sub sailors to do their taxes was one of the many hats that I wore.

I have been audited 3 times. Each audit ended with slight changes in our math, but still no tax obligation.

'Taxes' is not rocket science. I have known rocket scientists, and even that is not 'rocket science'.