Buying and building in Maine. (Farmington, Athens: sales, assessor, broker)

[Acadianlion]

You have gotten quite a lot of information here, some of which is pretty close to correct. However what you need to do is to come and spend time in each of the towns, talking with the town clerk and whomever the code enforcement officer is for that town. I don't know if the towns you mention have one COE that they share, which many small towns do, or if they have grown enough to have their own. The part of the state that you are looking at used to be very rural and quaint. It still is pretty much so, but it has grown and developed a lot in the past twenty years, so much has changed. In addition, quite a lot has changed in Maine in the past twenty years, and what was commonly done easily is now much more complicated.

You will need to find out what each town's ordinances are for building whatever it is that you want to build. Most organized towns in the state now have ordinances that will tell you exactly what you can do in whatever area of the town you want to do it in. In addition, if you are going to be putting in a driveway off the road, it may make a considerable difference whether or not it is a town road or a state numbered road. If it is a state numbered road you will need an entrance permit from MDOT, which is normally not difficult to get, but will require an Maine Department of Transportation route guy to approve the application. No cost and you can apply on line.

The soil test will determine where and what sort of house you can build. There may be towns that do not require a soil test in order to build a house (and install a septic system), but I have no idea where they are since the base regulation for subsoil waste disposal comes from the Maine Department of Environmental Regulation.

Depending on the type and variety of soils that your lot has, your septic system may well prove to be a very expensive project....or not. I won't buy ANY land for building until I have at least a basic soils test completed and at least a preliminary septic plan drawn. The last test that I had done involved three different test "pits" and one complete septic plan at a cost of $450. The septic design will be very simple and the resulting cost will be quite low.

If the lot that you buy is in a an approved subdivision, then you will want to be VERY clear about what kinds of restrictions and covenants are included in the subdivision documents. As a matter of policy I will NOT even look at a lot that is in a subdivision for the simple reason that far too many subdivisions have been drawn by an owner who was trying to sell off some land, but wasn't trying to develop a community. It makes quite a lot of difference, and the guy who is just trying to sell off some land may well have not given any consideration, or made any provision for who will repair the road when it washes out, who will plow the road during the winter and pay for it and so forth. You could buy into a subdivision and find out that there is NO one who is required to pay for a culvert that has suddenly popped out of the ground, AND you find out that your neighbors don't want to pay for it, can't pay for it, and that leaves you with the entire bill if you want to be able to get out of the subdivision without a helicopter.

Don't underestimate what the cost of putting in a road or running a power line will cost. Don't underestimate what it will cost to cut down the trees and remove them where you are going to build a driveway.

You will want to discuss the right of way issue with Central Maine Power because they will want to know details of the right of way if they are going to end up being responsible for maintaining the power line up the driveway. If you have a 50 foot right of way to put in your driveway, they may not want maintain a power line in that narrow an easement, and will require additional width. Bangor Hydro wants at least 60 feet at this moment in time, and they want it to be cleared of all trees.

As far as a real estate broker is concerned, my advice is to deal with them using a very long pole. The so-called "buyer's broker" scam is a cutsey way of feathering the nest of another real estate broker who can't make it on his own listings. What you will need to do after you find the land in the town that you want to be in, is to find a lawyer who deals in real estate issues, and place your faith in him/her. You don't care what cutsey deals and jargon the real estate types use because all they are doing is splitting commissions paid out fo the sale price. Basically a real estate broker ALWAYS represents the SELLER, despite what they call it, because it is from the SELLER that their money comes. That is rule #1 for dealing with real estate brokers and Rule #2 is simply, REPEAT Rule #1. Don't assume that a real estate broker knows anything about real estate. Most don't some are very, very good. Most are part timers and some are very very professional. Assume nothing, and make sure that your lawyer develops most of his work out of real estate law, because the lawyer will be a good person to have on your side. The lawyer works for YOU, and that will be your ace in the hole.

The person on this list who said that it was easier to buy an existing house was absolutely spot on. it is MUCH easier to buy something that is there, that has a road in, and has a septic system and wiring than to cut open the ground and create new. It is also far less expensive, unless the house is ready to fall down, the septic doesn't work, the well is dry, and the old house was built on a bog...then it is a bit less espensive but rebuilding, doing a new septic system, drilling a new well will prove a hassle, but still be easier than cutting open the woods to create all new.

Be careful, and expect it to take at least twice as long as you want, and cost at least twice as much as you hope, and you will probably be half right.

[retiredtinbender]

Acadianlion is absolutly right. Despite the reps these folks at Town Hall have, they are certified and know the state and fed regulations. The CEO can also give you the equirements for the lot size setback and other zoning questions. The assessor is a good place to check on the price the realtor/owner are asking. Check the assessment and the towns certified ratio. 100% means the assessment is in line with what the property should draw on the open market. Also a good place to find out what the taxes would be. Plumbing Inspector will help you with wells v. septic locations. Take your list and talk in each town at the Town Hall. Whether people like them or not, they are still an excellent resource that you shouldn't overlook. They may also keep a list of different contractors and surveyors.

Good luck to you. Hope you find what you're looking for.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

"Basically a real estate broker ALWAYS represents the SELLER, despite what they call it, because it is from the SELLER that their money comes."

There is just no way to beast around the bush about this. That is a bald faced lie. All of the purchase money in the transaction comes from the buyer. The only money the seller normally puts up is the preparation of a deed, the transfer tax and an back taxes he owes. That isn't much.

As to assessors; It is in a town's interest to keep property values as low as possible. That way the town pays less county tax to the county. Eventually the county will appeal to the state and the state will force a town to revaluate.

[Acadianlion]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

"Basically a real estate broker ALWAYS represents the SELLER, despite what they call it, because it is from the SELLER that their money comes."

There is just no way to beast around the bush about this. That is a bald faced lie. All of the purchase money in the transaction comes from the buyer. The only money the seller normally puts up is the preparation of a deed, the transfer tax and an back taxes he owes. That isn't much.

As to assessors; It is in a town's interest to keep property values as low as possible. That way the town pays less county tax to the county. Eventually the county will appeal to the state and the state will force a town to revaluate.

Perhaps you have been into the Allen's lately?

The SELLER pays the real estate broker's commissions out of the proceeds of the sale. The SELLER receives his final, negotiated price for the sale of the land which th e BUYER pays, but the SELLER pays the commission to the brokers, and can deduct the commissions from the taxable receipt from the sale.

The BUYER does pay a gross price, true. But it is the SELLER who actually pays the commission.

I will not debate the motivations of a town regarding raising or lowering taxes. But I doubt that it has much to do with the County's assessment. What I know it does have a LOT to do with, is the State's revenue sharing approach, which is directly effected by the relative tax revenues generated in a town. Towns with high tax revenues receive less from the state because they are "wealthier" than other towns. The archane formulas that are used by the State are varied, but without state aid such things as local schools would be in worse shape than they already are.

[BoundtofindME]

Originally Posted by retiredtinbender

100% means the assessment is in line with what the property should draw on the open market.

A word of caution...don't confuse the town's assessed value with the market value of a home. In the current buyer's market we're in right now a lot of properties are selling for close to or below town's assessed value. In a normal market, if you were to list your home for the town's assessed value, it would be snatched up so quick it would make your head spin.

[chiisai]

So, from this info., what I want to do is possible.

Once we have the land, the rest will come in time.

MORE INFO ON WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR;

Approx. 10 acres
Not wet
Build-able lot
No restrictions
No covenants
Soil tested would be great
Able to have a few chickens, NO roosters! (mine are in the basement right now) SSSHHH....

We have a Jeep Wrangler 4X4, and hope to ditch the minivan for a Crew-Cab truck in the future. (Jeep has a plow, and yes I know how to use it.)

We are huge DIY'ers, the ONLY thing we haven't done is framing. (We have friends to help with that)

Hubby is a professional firefighter full time, but has a part time (LMAO, part time) job, working maintenance for a 200+ unit apartment complex.

We have cleared trees, moved brush, installed everything from cabinets to toilets.

I am getting that happy feeling, nothing seems too out of line with what I was thinking for costs.

Thank you for the Guess-ti-mates!!

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

chiisai seeks:
"If anyone has some guess-ti-mates, PLEASE SHARE!!!"

Fort a $20,000 property;

Transfer tax; $44
Title search and closing; $550
Property tax for 6 months; $165
Title insurance; $125
Soil test and septic design; $300

Total; $1,184

That will get you to the ownership stage. The soil test is not required. You just do that if you suspect the lot is quite wet.

As to driveways, site clearing, septic installation and a well you could be looking at what you paid for the lot in a worst case situation. We are not exactly having a building boom right now. Many contractors in Northern Maine can be hired for bargain prices. Your Realtor will know who these people are.

FROM:AcadianlionYou have gotten quite a lot of information here, some of which is pretty close to correct. However what you need to do is to come and spend time in each of the towns, talking with the town clerk and whomever the code enforcement officer is for that town. I don't know if the towns you mention have one COE that they share, which many small towns do, or if they have grown enough to have their own.


We would love to spend a night in each town, but most of them don't have hotels. We stayed on the other-side of the river in Bangor one night.
Mostly we just drive up early in the a.m. and get back late at night.

So far they are just drive by's, and quick walk abouts.

Most of the Town Halls aren't even open, and the one in Medford was I think a shed.

Most of the towns we are looking in share CEO's, from what we can gather.

We have taken 3 weekends and driven up. We started in Medford, and saw a real cute camp already built, but it looked like it could get wet, and felt boggy underfoot.

Right now we are looking in Cornville and Athens. (active MLS's, look them up if you want to) I have concerns about the one in Athens, something to do with USGS, backs up to conservation land. This is always a bad thing down here in our neck of the flat-lands. The DEP gets involved and then you own swamp land, and can't build.

We will be up there again next weekend, I think we found a motel in Skowhegan, I just hope they don't close for the season. (I'll be calling next week, to make sure.)

The search continues from Medford-to-Rumford.....

I love all the advice and info, PLEASE keep it coming. If you think it's stupid, I probably don't know about it.

Thank you to EVERYONE to took the time to reply, and please don't hesitate to contact me with more advice.

Thanks again!

[Casper1212]

New to the forum, but not to this subject. I don't live in Maine--yet. But the first thing to do ALWAYS do is check local building codes and ordinances. City hall, or the county courthouse, if you live out of town, can clarify what all those things mean. In many places, land does not require a survey if the exact piece of property has been surveyed in recent years. The real kicker is to make sure the property is free and clear. Again, courthouse. It never hurts to have a new survey done, if you can afford it. It could be that it might even be required by your lender, etc. But no, land usually does not require a survey just to list it for sale.
Soil testing can be a lot of things. A PERK test is one of them, to determine how well the soil drains. What most people want from a soil test is to determine what kind of contaminates might be in the soil. If that's the case, I would want to know why they're concerned about contaminates.
Mixed use means it's zoned for more than one purpose. Again, visit city hall. You can only use the property for the purpose it was zoned for. Unless it's worth it for you to go fight planning and zoning and all the neighbors to get it changed.
Covenants are restrictions and guidelines established for that neighborhood. Could have been the developer, could have been the county. Doesn't matter. You have to follow them when you build.
Other restrictions? At this point, I would be looking elsewhere. But remember, covenants and zoning restrictions protect you, too.
Deeded ROW and deeded river/brook/stream. The surveyor can tell you more about what that means than anyone else. That would be things in the deed for the property and he can tell you if it means that you own the ROW or just have a right to it. Same for the water. Most property lines that are bounded on a side by a waterway consider the center of a continously running stream to be the property line. Than means you have riights when it comes to using the waterway.
That 50'-100; ROW is a definite check into. Fifty feet sounds like a city street. A hundred is more like a road. That doesn't mean that the county or whoever owns the street or road will use the entire wideth, but they can. If they decide to widen, for example, they can cut right through your yard, if they have ROW across it.
If you've hired a reputable contractor that you trust, talk with them, too.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Maine does not do perk tests.

[chiisai]

I forgot to add; We are not immediately concerned about electric. We have inverters to charge most of our lights during the day, and we even have a small solar panel that will charge a few small things.

We plan on getting a generator for construction, or borrowing my dad's.

We are tossing the idea of a composting toilet around. I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO HAS PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF THESE!

One of my concerns is if the land is too wet, we may not be able to 4-wheel in, thus making it necessary for a driveway off of a R.O.w. or a gravel roadway.

We were hoping to do a driveway later, to cut costs. That way we could build and enjoy, then make improvements.

I have been working on floor plans (hobby of mine, I just like to draw them up). So far we are thinking 24 X 24 or 30 X 30.

Mostly we are interested in having the land to garden, raise our 2 kids, & 3 hens, practice our archery, let our Lab run about without getting hit by a car, practice .22 rifle and handgun firing, maybe even hunt. Mostly for use during the summers, and fall.

Eventually we would like to make it a retirement place, and family getaway.

I asked for a small wood stove on Freecycle, and got one, YES for FREE. Mostly just to keep the chill off, we have other ideas for heating during the winter.

We would like to be as self-sufficient as possible.

Again, would love to hear your views and advice.

[Casper1212]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Maine does not do perk tests.

I would have been surprised if you needed them up there. Down here, there's no such thing in the first place, so they don't bother.