Buying and building in Maine. (Skowhegan, Monmouth: sale, real estate, apartments)

[chiisai]

We are in the process of looking for acreage in the Skowhegan area of Maine. (Starks, Anson, Cornville, Athens, etc...)

Some of the listings state;
1. the land is not surveyed
2. soil tests are done
3. Mixed use, recreational. residential, mobile homes allowed/not allowed
4. Covenants in place
5. other restrictions
6. deeded river/brook/stream
7. deeded R.O.W.
8. 50' - 100' R.O.W.

Here are my questions...

I didn't know land could be sold without being surveyed, to begin with. Will I need to have a survey done before the sale of the land? If so who is responsible for this, the buyer (me) or the seller?

Is a soil test the same as a PERK test? If NOT what is it? My other thought is, that maybe it was related to gardening?

If a listing says recreational, is that all it can be used for? Meaning that we would only be able to use it as a camping/hunting spot??

The covenants thing is a complete mind game for me. Is it what is required when land is subdivided? Or, is it just what the land owner did when they subdivided the land, before selling the lots?
From what I gather, there are a whole lot of rules that just make it difficult to build. I must be missing something.

The "other restrictions", are also screwy. Is this just a way to keep mobile homes out of an area?

What is "deeded river/brook/stream"? Wouldn't I want to avoid a known water issue on land that I want to build on??? Aren't there mandatory setbacks, etc....?

Who has access to a deeded R.O.W.? What questions should I be asking in regards to this?? I thought that a R.O.W., legally meant, that someone other than the property owner, had a "right" to access that portion of land.

Why are the 50' wide R.O.W.'s considered normal? Isn't a 10' wide R.O.W. a more reasonable width? Why 50' wide?

How difficult is it, to get a septic design?
How expensive is, a septic design?
Will a professional need to be involved in the entire process? Meaning once we have a design, can we do the work ourselves?

What do I need to know about buying land in Maine??

What do I need to know about starting the building process in Maine?

Do I start with a driveway permit?
How do I apply for a building permit?
Will I need blueprints from an engineer? Or can I draw them up myself?

What is required to apply for a building permit? And how do I get whatever it is, that is required?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thank you in advance for all your replies!!

[Fern435]

Hello chiisai!

Your questions will receive answers from the knowledgeable and friendly people here (I'm friendly, but not too knowledgeable right now! ).

I can recommend an excellent surveying company for you...Thayer Engineering Company. They are near Skowhegan (Mount Vernon? I'll have to check the paperwork). We needed their help a few months ago when we purchased our place near Monmouth. Not only were they professional and very knowledgeable, but they also were extremely kind and helpful in providing some important information to us.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

You rang?

1. I didn't know land could be sold without being surveyed, to begin with. Will I need to have a survey done before the sale of the land? If so who is responsible for this, the buyer (me) or the seller?

If the land has an adequate description as to where it lies on the face of the earth the seller doesn't need to have it surveyed. Years ago there were many deeds Where a seller sold "the old Butler place" to a buyer. Both seller and buyer understood what was conveyed and both were happy. No Registry of Deeds in Maine would record that today. A survey would be needed.

2/ Is a soil test the same as a PERK test? If NOT what is it? My other thought is, that maybe it was related to gardening?

Maine does not do perk test. A soil test relates to a septic system. One is necessary before getting a building permit. If none has been done and the property is low and wet you should get one before you buy. Note: Winter is coming. If you don't do it soon you may not be able to get a soil test done before spring.

3. If a listing says recreational, is that all it can be used for? Meaning that we would only be able to use it as a camping/hunting spot??

No, but the road may not be plowed in winter or it might be on low ground that won't pass for a soil test. You might only be able to park a camper there. It could also refer to a property next to a 3,000 acre game management site owned by the state and be great for a hunting camp.

4. The covenants thing is a complete mind game for me. Is it what is required when land is subdivided? Or, is it just what the land owner did when they subdivided the land, before selling the lots?
From what I gather, there are a whole lot of rules that just make it difficult to build. I must be missing something.

It's what the seller did or what the government extorted from the seller in order to be able to subdivide the land he owned. Some sellers want to control the land even after they sell it. Some local governments want to control it forever.

5. The "other restrictions", are also screwy. Is this just a way to keep mobile homes out of an area?

Could be. Maine has a law that a town cannot restrict mobile homes from any property where a residence would be allowed. However, a seller can put in a covenant that no mobile homes can be placed on the land. That way the buyer knows up front.

6. What is "deeded river/brook/stream"? Wouldn't I want to avoid a known water issue on land that I want to build on??? Aren't there mandatory setbacks, etc....?

That means you either own the water frontage outright or you own a right of access to the water in common with others, which leads into Question 7. ;-)

7. Who has access to a deeded R.O.W.? What questions should I be asking in regards to this?? I thought that a R.O.W., legally meant, that someone other than the property owner, had a "right" to access that portion of land.

Anybody named in the deed. It could be just the owner of your property or it could be everybody in a subdivision . A ROW is a burden on the land. It mans somebody else has a right to come and go across your property or vice versa.

8. Why are the 50' wide R.O.W.'s considered normal? Isn't a 10' wide R.O.W. a more reasonable width? Why 50' wide?

Depends on the purpose. Many old rights of way were defined in rods. A rod is 16.5 feet so a 2 rod road would be 33 feet wide. 50 feet is convenient for a 2 lane road with room for ditches and utility poles. Better roads need four rods or 66 feet.

9. How difficult is it, to get a septic design?
How expensive is, a septic design?
Will a professional need to be involved in the entire process? Meaning once we have a design, can we do the work ourselves?

Soil tests need to be done by licensed people. They twist and auger into the ground and compare the color of the soil with a chart in a book. Then they think about it a whole lot and design a system based on the number of bedrooms you intend to have. This will cost you $300 or more. You can choose your own contractor. You can do it yourself if you have the equipment. Before you cover it up the local plumbing inspector is supposed to come out and look at it.

10. What do I need to know about buying land in Maine??

DO A TILE SEARCH. BUY TITLE INSURANCE. (THis is my annual post in all caps. Yes, I know it is shouting. It needs to be shouted at least on an annual basis.) That said, you need to know what your long term goals are and how practical those goals are for where you want to buy. A good Realtor can help a lot.

11. What do I need to know about starting the building process in Maine?

See question 9.

12. Do I start with a driveway permit?

No. You get a driveway permit before you buy as a condition of sale.

13. How do I apply for a building permit?

Piece of cake in Northern Maine. Walk into the town office with $5 and a soil test. Down in lower Maine it can take years.

14. Will I need blueprints from an engineer? Or can I draw them up myself?

That depends. In most places in Northern Maine you can build what you want. Do it yourself. See Question 13 about lower Maine.

15. What is required to apply for a building permit? And how do I get whatever it is, that is required?

See Question 13.

(note: I have been on planning boards in Maine since 1973.)

[chiisai]

Thank you, every little bit helps.

I plan on printing out all the helpful info., so we know what to do.

Originally Posted by Fern435

Hello chiisai!

Your questions will receive answers from the knowledgeable and friendly people here (I'm friendly, but not too knowledgeable right now! ).

I can recommend an excellent surveying company for you...Thayer Engineering Company. They are near Skowhegan (Mount Vernon? I'll have to check the paperwork). We needed their help a few months ago when we purchased our place near Monmouth. Not only were they professional and very knowledgeable, but they also were extremely kind and helpful in providing some important information to us.

[chiisai]

Northern Main Land Man;

WOW, this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you, Thank you.

I have done countless web searches, and can't find this stuff. I have asked the Real Estate agents, about their listings but haven't got very far.

I realize that I am considered a Ma$$ h-o-l-e, but I'm not stupid, just un-knowledgeable. That's why I'm asking them all the questions.

Things are so much different down here for us flat-landers. We need permits for everything. We can't put up a chicken wire fence without a permit, and putting an abutters notice in the newspapers!

[Northern Maine Land Man]

You'll find things like that down in lower Maine. Some towns don't plan ahead and their schools are busting at the seams. To avoid adding on to their school they limit building permits to just a few a year. Some towns do it by lottery. Some put you on a list and it could be several years before it's your turn. Some take out a building permit just so they can sell it for big bucks and you can jump the line.

Up here in God's Country we have towns with no zoning and no hassles. Build what you want, where you want and when you want. I know some folks where the man who owns the most expensive home in town lives next to a 2 bedroom mobile home. The two owners went to Sunday school together as kids. They graduated from high school together and hunted and fished together for many years. The gent with the big house became quite prosperous. His friend never made a lot of money. Why should government tell these two friends they can't be neighbors? That's the way we see it up here. Come on up. You'll be welcome. Just don't run for school board the first year.

PS: My neighbor down the road shoots skeet off his back deck. That's OK up here too.

[chiisai]

I grew up in a home, that my dad built. He then added on to it and rented out the apartments that he made. He was a builder for many years (50+), before retiring. He's now 80, but still owns and lives in the same house with tenants.
We have a single family home, which is a blessing, but I still want something different.

I want my kids to have options. The idea is to have 10 acres, and build our own home from the ground up. Nothing big, but something we can use as a place to go for now. Then as a place to move to, and retire.

We all have compound bows, but have to pay to go to the local archery range to shoot for an hour. I want to be able to set up some straw bales and shoot anytime I want.

I would love to learn how to hunt someday. We need gun permits, and in order to practice we have to pay a few hundred dollars a year to join a range.

I just bought 3 Auraucauna chickens, we hope they are all hens. I have a pen in our basement, special diet, lights, etc.. I legally can't have poultry of any kind within town limits without a special permit.

I want to be neighbors, with people who shoot stuff off their back deck. (provided it isn't me of course!)

I want what you have!!

P.S. Don't worry about me running for any kind of school board, I HOMESCHOOL! We have more drugs, violence, etc.. in the schools than we do on our town's streets!

I'm not political so the chances of me running for anything are slim to none, plus I don't like exercise. LOL

Again, Thank you for the info., and support. I was getting discouraged, but now I'll just have to keep learning and stay the course!

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

You'll find things like that down in lower Maine. Some towns don't plan ahead and their schools are busting at the seams. To avoid adding on to their school they limit building permits to just a few a year. Some towns do it by lottery. Some put you on a list and it could be several years before it's your turn. Some take out a building permit just so they can sell it for big bucks and you can jump the line.

Up here in God's Country we have towns with no zoning and no hassles. Build what you want, where you want and when you want. I know some folks where the man who owns the most expensive home in town lives next to a 2 bedroom mobile home. The two owners went to Sunday school together as kids. They graduated from high school together and hunted and fished together for many years. The gent with the big house became quite prosperous. His friend never made a lot of money. Why should government tell these two friends they can't be neighbors? That's the way we see it up here. Come on up. You'll be welcome. Just don't run for school board the first year.

PS: My neighbor down the road shoots skeet off his back deck. That's OK up here too.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Home schoolers are welcome here. When the time comes your kid can play in the school band, play sports and take those classes that need laboratory work. You can teach your kid about our history, citizenship, geography and grammar.

Come on up.

[BoundtofindME]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Maine has a law that a town cannot restrict mobile homes from any property where a residence would be allowed.

NMLM that was a great post and just wanted to let you know that I learned something new tonight from you as well. The CEO at a particular northern town always told my DH and I that mobile homes were restricted on a parcel of lakefront we own. And, it's definitely not in our deed -- so plan to call them on Monday to discuss.

Also for the OP:
Re: Building Setbacks -- yes there are defined setbacks depending on if the property is on small pond, lake, ocean, resource protection, wildlife habitat, or shorebird zones, etc, etc. Get particulars from CEO (Code Enforcement Officer) of town before you write up that offer.

Re: Surveys - I've had buyers that bought property without a survey and then ended up with more acreage than stated in the town records when that had it surveyed -- in one case it was 45 acres more!! Also, it's more affordable ($200-$300) to get a GPS survey done by a surveyor--they will let you know beforehand if they can do it or not on the specific property you request it on. If not, you may be looking at a couple grand or more, depending on complexity.

Bottomline, the OP should be working with a good real estate agent like NMLM who IMO is worth his weight in gold! (And I've never even met him, just going by what I've learned about him by reading his very informative and knowledgeable posts here on the Maine forum.)

[chiisai]

BoundToFindMaine said that I should be working with a R.E. agent. If that is the case, how will that work?

I hope it isn't like a lawyer, by the hour. We definitely can't afford that.

We already will need a lawyer, to do the title search and the other legal type stuff. We will need to have a soil test done, which I'm sure will raise the land price.

I can't imagine what a R.E., will cost.

Maybe $19K won't be enough for the land.

We had planned on $2K for all the other accouterments that go along with the pre-building process!

What types of fees are we looking at?

It seems like the building permit is the cheapest thing so far.

COSTS??

Soil test ?

Septic design? Approx $300. just for the design. How much for the system to be professionally installed, if we aren't able to do it ourselves?

Lawyer for title search, P&S, closing, etc... I can't even begin to guess what this will cost??

I'm sure I'm missing many other costs.

If anyone has some guess-ti-mates, PLEASE SHARE!!!