Wind turbine noise problem in Mars Hill (Bangor: to live, club)

[kellysmith]

Wow...Teacher started something didn't he!! After all this I will report that there couldn't have been a nicer place on the planet then this evening at Mars Hill Country Club...cut into the mountain hundreds of feet from the wind mills. Wind was from the Southeast...making the golf course down wind from multiple windmills. Not one sound was heard from these monsters. What a beautiful place it was. Just like before there were windmills up on the mountain! Visit Mars Hill at this time of year and you will see how life should be, used to be, and still is!!! Days like today we all live for!

[mollysmiles]

Kelly, I for one am interested in your opinion. We're looking forward to a trip up there, and are hoping to go on a windy day when many of the turbines are going.

[kellysmith]

Molly,
for best viewing go on a clear crisp day, one with no haze. You will be amazed by the windfarm. A day like yesterday when the wind was hardly noticable at the foot of the mountain, the windmills will be turning one revolution in about 5 seconds. Doesn't seem very fast, but do the math and the tip of the blades (250 ft diameter of the arc) go about 800 ft in that five seconds. That figures out to be around 120 mph for the tip of the blade. You will think the blades are turning so slowly however. On the windiest days you will see the blades make a revolution in about 3 seconds. Obviously there is some means of controlling how fast they turn. There's not that much difference from a windy day and one like yesterday as far as how fast they turn.

If you want to go on a day to hear maximum noise. Go on an overcast day. The loudest you will hear will be just before it rains and just after it rains. It would appear that the rain laden cloud acts as a reflective source for the sound that bounces off it. (Please note, I said loudest sound, not annoying, or any other descriptives) This sound, if you close your eyes, might make you think there is a jet flying over at 35000 ft. You open your eyes and there is no jet. Then you say, that must be the sound they are talking about. The sound just before a rain storm would be the one I referred to as a distant waterfall. Again, I'd love to see the numbers on the sound tests. The permits allow 45 decibels I believe, and I can't believe any sound I've ever heard approach 20 decibels.

When you get to Mars Hill, be sure to drive up into the yard at the golf course. The view is unbelievable. In fact bring some golf clubs and find one of Maine's best kept secrets. The McQuade family privately own the golf course. Stop into the clubhouse and see if any of the family are around. They are great people and represent Mars Hill very well. It's not my place to speak for them, but I would understand if they were upset by the windfarm, but seem to express the view that the majority of the townspeople support the project, so it's there for that reason.

[GregW]

I think I could convince my condo association to consider having a couple of these placed on our vacant land. We will lease the land to the wind company and it should help keep our condo maintenance fees from increasing.

Nice dream but our condo is less than 10 miles from the runway of a major airport and I do not think the FAA would approve of a few giant windmills on the approach to runway 35 at MHT. BTW if these machines make as much noise as a plane at 35,000 feet I don't think I would notice because we have airliners fly over us at 2,500 ft at nearly full power. Now that is noisy but only a nuisance.

Having read this entire thread and participated from the start I have concluded that JSN does not understand large-scale electric power systems and is basing his opposition to wind turbines on the esthetic and emotional stress created by the presence of these large machines in the rural landscape. He has a right to that opposition but I do not think that his stress is important enough to stop implementing wind power as a part of our alternative energy development. I think it is appropriate to build these where the wind resource is large enough to be harvested.

[GoldenCrow]

Originally Posted by GregW

I think it is appropriate to build these where the wind resource is large enough to be harvested.

OK, fine. I agree. But, it is not that simple. A couple of things to think about:

The best place to build a utility-grade wind installation is where 1) there's a good wind resource, 2) there's "easy" access to the grid, and 3) the big users (industry & population centers) are close by. There are only so many on-shore places that meet these criteria, which is why there's a "wind rush" on in rural towns like mine. Once these places are developed, and the wind resource is being used, that's it -- you get one chance.

What many people misinterpret as NIMBYism is actually people trying to make sure that this development is done correctly -- in a thoughtful, planned fashion. In a way that offers real economic benefit to the area where they are developed. In a way that is sensitive to the natural environment and to those of us will live with them as neighbors.

This is big business, folks. If wind energy then supplied 15 percent of the nation’s electricity, more than 100,000 new wind turbines would be built...over $400 billion worth of turbines.

Here's what I'd like you to think about: If these wind-energy production facilities were mostly local-owned enterprises, then even more renewable energy profits would flow back into the mostly rural communities where they are built. Local ownership has a 5 times greater economic impact than the absentee corporate ownership model that's being shoved down our throats in rural America.

Where would the money come from? They're using our tax dollars to fund these projects as it is...along with some very attractive tax breaks that only large corporations can take advantage of. This needs to change.

Changing the way that this investment is made in rural America should be a high national priority.

So far, public policy has focused simply on achieving the quantitative goals by expanding renewable energy production. It's the qualitative goals that we should be after -- goals like maximizing economic impact and development in rural communities. Goals like careful siting to ensure that we don't have more communities dealing with problems like those in Mars Hill.

Also, please remember that the environmental movement started with people who wanted to protect places that they love. People, like JustSayNo, who are willing to fight for what they believe in. I respect that.

[GregW]

Golden Crow –
I agree with you comment that wind power development would have far greater beneficial economic benefits for the rural communities if the communities owned the devices. I do not see why any community that has a wind resource should not create a town owned utility use that entity to negotiate with the energy companies. I believe that distributed ownership and well as distributed power are both good ideas but I can see how the existing economics are designed to prevent these developments. For instance how would your town have obtained the financing for a wind project? How would mine? Would it be legal? If it happened would the people on the back of Mars Hill still complained if the rest of the town had outvoted them?

It is a political fact that the “little guy or town” has very little effect on Federal policies that are controlled by major corporations. These corporations write the rules to benefit themselves. This may not be right but it is a fact we all have to deal with. If we want to change the system we have to elect people that agree with us at the town, county state and federal levels.

[DavidoftheNorth]

Friday, June 29, 2007
Gov. John Baldacci appointed 16 people yesterday to his new wind power advisory group.

The Task Force on Wind Power Development in Maine, which Baldacci established in May to study how the state evaluates wind power proposals, will be led by Alec Giffen, director of the Maine Forest Service, according to a press release. Other members include David Littell, commissioner of the state Department of Environmental Protection, and Pete Didisheim, advocacy director for the Natural Resources Council of Maine.

Though the group hasn't set its first meeting date, it's expected to issue a final report to Baldacci by Jan. 15, 2008.

source: Mainebiz Daily

[qhmare]

Originally Posted by GregW

Parenthetically – I think the major fuss at Mars Hill is that the loot was not evenly distributed amongst the residents on the hill. I also think that JSN would vehemently deny this possibility.

I'm one of those "on the hill" and my fuss is the noise. Plain and simple. Couldn't care less about the loot. Don't want any loot. Only want peace and quiet. Loot will not make the noise easier to take. I'm starting to think sleep aids might though.
qhmare

[qhmare]

Originally Posted by kellysmith

The permits allow 45 decibels I believe, and I can't believe any sound I've ever heard approach 20 decibels.

Kelly, you need to find the sound study and check it out. It IS above 20 decibels.
qhmare

[kellysmith]

qhmare,
Then is it above 45 decibels, the legal limit allowed by the permitting? According to the Sound Institute 20 db is equal to "the sound of a whisper", 45 db is "minimum street noise". Also 30 decibels is twice as loud as 20 db, 40 db is twice as loud as 20, so 40 db would be 4 times as loud as 20 db. Bottom line, is the "noise" within the legally allowed limit of 45 db...that of "minimum street noise"? It it wasn't I bet we would know. And if the "noise is 20 db, it's 4 times lower than legally allowed. What are the numbers if you know what they are?