Wind turbine noise problem in Mars Hill (Washington, Penobscot: schools, camp)

[GregW]

I thought the wind had stopped blowing.

[SteveMartin]

Some here are making the assertion that we could "cover New England with wind mills, and it would not allow us to scrap one single dirty source."

Well, that simply isn't true.

Maine uses about 12.4 billion KwH of electricity annually. Just one wind tower like they used in Mars Hill and are setting up near Prentiss can produce 4.3 million KwH annually. 3000 of them in well placed areas could replace all of our current electric energy sources! (And they now come twice that size too...)

For those who aren't reading me carefully, I am NOT against wind power. All I am saying is site them wisely, keep working on quieting technologies, and keep reasonable setbacks.

What seems to be happening here is that the project managers want to save the costs of building long strands of new transition lines to put them in truly uninhabited areas and to still get the power to market. To their credit, the Stetson Project is much better located than the Mars Hill project. It seems they already have gotten the message?

We don't need to resort to bribery or underhanded secrecy to get things done. (Not saying that's what happened, just making the valid point here.)

Again, however, I will refute any globalist who tries to assert that energy needs to be "international." That is utter hogwash, and bordering on the same type of economic treason that our corporate CEOs have been engaged in since at least the early 80s.

[SteveMartin]

Here's another thought.

In many cases the majority of the costs of new wind power generation for local consumers are taken up largely with the construction of the towers.

Why not legislate that homeowners be allowed/encouraged/assisted to put small wind turbines (vertical ones may be best) on the tops of any reasonable number of telephone poles on/near their own properties? The utilities could put them up and maintain them, in return for taking these costs back in terms of free "overflow" electricity. If the consumer doesn't produce the overflow to pay for such services within a specified period, they are billed for it...

Cutting the costs of new individual installations is something we can do. To their credit, Houlton Federal Credit Union, for example is already offering 3.5% notes (up to $4000--which should be $6-10,000, but it's a good start) for anyone taking out a loan for the purpose of adding energy efficiencies or new "clean" generation sources to their properties. Perhaps other banks are doing this as well.

Combine that incentive with what I have suggested above (i.e. cutting new wind turbine costs in half) and we could see a real BOOM in cottage-industry self-power generation.

I'd guess Maine has around 500,000 telephone poles. If just 1/5th of the better-located (read: unobstructed) ones were topped by vertical wind generators, we'd provide upwards of 12-15% of all our residential energy needs INDIVIDUALLY, for ourselves (see the Republican self-sufficiency concept here?) with no corporate or government involvement other than the maintenance contract with the local utility.

[Mainer61]

What happens to the turbines when they don't work any more? Will it be just a wind turbine wasteland? I don't believe the companies putting them up will pay to remove them.

[SteveMartin]

The consumer buys them, and replaces them when they wear out...or pays to have them removed and not replaced, if they don't want to remain in the program.

[RANGER.101ST]

Originally Posted by SteveMartin

The consumer buys them, and replaces them when they wear out...or pays to have them removed and not replaced, if they don't want to remain in the program.

most of your statements sound like a lobbyist trying to get a wind farm bill past.

[Coaster]

Originally Posted by SteveMartin

You are not dealing with some flunky here who doesn't understand the way the energy industries in this country have been run for nearly 120 years. We need the people to have a voice. If the project managers can't get a majority vote out of a small town with the merits of their project, then, quite frankly, they need to either:

A. Have a better project to pitch, or
B. Pitch the project they have better (and live by their promises.)

You may not be a flunkie, but you seem to have a rather weak grasp on pragmatic and historic reality. When it comes to NIMBYism in Maine, facts don't matter, only emotion. I saw it day after day during the debate over siting an LNG terminal in Harpswell.

Not all Republicans are monopoly capitalists. Some of us are still laissez faire capitalists who understand how monopolies and giant corporations can and do prey on consumers and small, local governments. Somebody has to speak for the voiceless, or else we could be back walking over the foam from one bank of the Androscoggin to the other.

Look, I am NO GREENIE. I am a economic populist who thinks whatever power sources we use (and I am in favor of more/new/revisited hydro/nuke projects in Maine as well as for drilling for oil wherever there is oil in the good ol' USA to drill for) they should benefit more than just the already deep pockets of the energy kingpins. Since the electric utilities have already been granted monopoly status, there is nothing that anti-monopoly, laissez faire capitalists can do with this existing paradigm other than urge TRULY QUIET and TRULY EFFICIENT wind farms (and other generation schemes) that BENEFIT THE PEOPLE. After all, that is why these utilities were (at least theoretically) monopolized in the first place.

Wind farms have nothing to do with the monopolistic utilities that deliver the power. Alternative Energy generation in Maine is a laissez-faire industry. UPS is only one of half a dozen companies trying to get wind farms built in Maine, not some giant monopoly running roughshod over the powerless people of Maine.

I am taking no position with regard to UPC and its projects in rural Maine at present. I do not have all the facts.

That might be the most accurate statement you've made so far.

However, if it turns out that they indeed bribed local officials, or if local officials received undue benefits from their positions, that will never happen again in Aroostook County, you can be sure of that.

That is an outrageous and possibly libelous statement. I hope you can back it up with facts, especially given your previous comment about not having all the facts.

Edited for clarity.

[JustSayNo]

Nice additions to an old, and important, thread. Thanks Steve!

[SteveMartin]

You may not be a flunkie, but you seem to have a rather weak grasp on pragmatic and historic reality. When it comes to NIMBYism in Maine, facts don't matter, only emotion. I saw it day after day during the debate over siting an LNG terminal in Harpswell.

That's because the projects have NOT benefited locals in any meaningful way to date. Change the greed factor just slightly and the so-called "NIMBYs" may very well become "SWNs" ("Sure, why nots?") I'll compare my grasp of "historical reality" to yours any day. I have a Bachelor's and all but a thesis for a Master's in history and have had several lengthy articles published in a historical journal. You?

Somebody here doesn't understand corporate greed. Corporations are the worst thing that ever happened to this country, and the whole concept of corporate law needs to be reviewed. The original conceptions may have not been so bad, the twisted use some have made of them have cost this country immense hardship, and continue to do so daily.

Wind farms have nothing to do with the monopolistic utilities that deliver the power. Alternative Energy generation in Maine is a laissez-faire industry. UPS is only one of half a dozen companies trying to get wind farms built in Maine, not some giant monopoly running roughshod over the powerless people of Maine.

Read carefully, my friend. Where have I criticized UPC? I have gone out of my way to say that all the facts are not in.

Again, someone needs a refresher course in history. I am not saying anything about UPC at this point, because I don't have all the facts, but GE's growing dominance of the market for large turbines is troubling. One only need to do some quick googling on that particular monster to clearly see the ugly scales everywhere.

Alternative energy generation in Maine can not be defined as laissez faire if/when it is being foisted on unsuspecting locals against their approval. True market economics also takes in the responsibility to pay for any damages that may be caused to those harmed by your laissez faire activities.

Again, we must use the "local control" option here. Local ownership of new power generation would be far preferable to any Wall Street giant gobbling up the levers of power.

That is an outrageous and possibly libelous statement. I hope you can back it up with facts, especially given your previous comment about not having all the facts.

Not at all. Not even close. I am not the slightest bit worried. I do seem to be getting a pretty strong reaction though from someone here who is writing like an employee, sub contractor, or town official who benefited unfairly...

[SteveMartin]

Originally Posted by RANGER.101ST

most of your statements sound like a
lobbyist trying to get a wind farm bill past.

Nope. I have nothing to hide. I am just a concerned citizen with no stake of any kind (other than my concern for what may happen to my fixed income neighbors in Aroostook County this winter unless SOMETHING serious is done to help them NOW). Call me. I'm in the book.

Steve Martin
Amity, ME