Columbine dad touts gun law in Maine (Augusta, Bingham: fingerprints, credit card)

[RANGER.101ST]

[quote=reloop;8253732]

Meanwhile, Sid, the local drug dealer

i have you know i haven't dealt drugs since i opened my topless coffee shop prostitution ring/illegal gun running business.
the powers that be will not be happy till they have all the power over our free america.if they brought back the old days and hung some one for killing another there would be a big decrease in violence.instead they want to make it harder on the law abiding people.and they want to cash in on the tax money generated by private sales.if people got involved their right to vote most of these bills wouldn't even make it off the floor.

[reloop]

My apologies to the reputable "Sids" of the world.

I know people are well-intentioned when it comes to safety, I hope I don't "come off" as being an ignoramous to their opinions about gun restrictions.

I just feel it's high time that responsible people get a little press - once and a while anyway. I also don't think it's particularly fair to make small gun dealers spend a lot of time on paperwork and confusing laws to make a living.

Ok, I'll hush up now.

[mollysmiles]

I agree. Someone asked earlier about the "stat" of guns bought at shows involved in crimes. When WABI TV did their news story on this they had a brief conversation with someone, I believe from the NRA, about that very stat. The person said the number is "less than 2%". Now, I remember that very well, BUT I can't find the link through WABI to that story, and the written story doesn't even contain that conversation. So, I believe that to be true, it sounds reasonable, yet after searching last night and this morning I can't find the link (a link either) to support what I heard.

It's such a case of barking up the wrong tree and focusing energy and resources away from the real problem and therefore, a real solution.

[fxtrader]

Hi Molly here is the data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. I think they combine flea markets and gun shows to get 1.7% as you stated above.

• Purchased from a retail store, 8.3 percent.
• Purchased at a pawnshop, 3.8 percent.
• Purchased at a flea market, 1.0 percent.
• Purchased in a gun show, 0.7 percent.
• Obtained from friends or family, 39.6 percent.
• Got on the street/illegal source, 39.2 percent.

[mollysmiles]

yay! I'm so glad you found that! thank you!

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Obtained from friends or family, 39.6 percent.
Got on the street/illegal source, 39.2 percent.

Roughly 80% of transactions are private individual to individual transactions. In some cities transfers of certain firearms between individuals in that city are illegal since simple possession is illegal in that city. Maybe that is where they figure that street sales are illegal. In Maine there are a lot of yard sales and flea markets that have firearms. Maybe the list above considers them illegal since the "Bureau of Justice Statistics" regards them as illegal.

Has anybody ever seen a "Bureau of Justice Statistics" before? It sounds like one of those privately funded think tanks that issue official looking reports and white papers in support of some issue.

[GreenGene]

Originally Posted by mollysmiles

I agree. Someone asked earlier about the "stat" of guns bought at shows involved in crimes.

I think the question you're referring to (post 24) was:

"..... how many people who buy guns at gun shows typically have some sort of criminal record?"

Here I found the following:

• Among State and local checking agencies in 2005, 46% of all rejections for firearm transfers (about 30,000 applications) were due to a felony conviction or indictment.
• The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearm and Explosives' (ATF) field offices investigated 9,575 National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) denials that were referred by the FBI in 2005.
• In 2005 agencies reported 1,400 arrests of persons denied a firearm or a permit.

I wouldn't have thought that someone with a criminal record would attempt to purchase a gun anywhere that they would be subject to a background check, but apparently thousands did just that in 2005, and their applications were thankfully denied. That doesn't mean they didn't ultimately get their hands on guns, but at least the background check made it more difficult ... and in 1,400 cases, the individuals were arrested, something that would not have happened without the background check.

The website (U.S. Dept. of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics) did not appear to have stats on this more recent than 2005.

[msina]

Do they have background checks in Northern Va.? Perhaps some of these ideas would be appreciated by gun owners and dealers there.

[reloop]

Originally Posted by GreenGene

I think the question you're referring to (post 24) was:

"..... how many people who buy guns at gun shows typically have some sort of criminal record?"

Here I found the following:

I wouldn't have thought that someone with a criminal record would attempt to purchase a gun anywhere that they would be subject to a background check, but apparently thousands did just that in 2005, and their applications were thankfully denied. That doesn't mean they didn't ultimately get their hands on guns, but at least the background check made it more difficult ... and in 1,400 cases, the individuals were arrested, something that would not have happened without the background check.

The website (U.S. Dept. of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics) did not appear to have stats on this more recent than 2005.

I see your point.

I think by looking at these statistics, we can safely conclude that these felons who tried to buy firearms, are not the sharpest pencils in the box - obviously.

Please don't think me a "troll" for asking this question - really, all I want is to pause and think a minute: Say we were to enact regulations on gun shows, etc...Would it be safe to assume (although we all know what kind of trouble that can get us into at times) that the person who spends his or her free time breaking and entering and stealing firearms so as to file the serial number and sell them to anyone for profit will see a bigger profit or less of a profit?

Also, I'm curious as to whether these are national or state statistics (I'm on my way out the door - I apologize that I don't have time to read the link, but I will.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Very pertinent question reloop. I own one single shot target pistol with no serial number. It was purchased legally in Mexico when it was legal to own a pistol in Mexico. My uncle handed it down to me. The pistol has proof marks and the manufacturer's name from Belgium. Today a gun dealer probably could not sell it due to the lack of a serial number, but it could be transferred between individuals.

Old muzzle loaders don't need serial numbers. I don't know about antique cartridge firearms or when serial numbers became popular. I do know they originated with the military.

The bottom line is that we citizens can buy, sell, own borrow or lend firearms at the present time without telling anybody. It's the small businessman who bears the crushing burden of all the record keeping and if he makes an error in reading the serial number on an old gun the BATF can put him out of business. You know what BATF stands for; Bad Attitude Toward Freedom.