Question on building concrete paito

[forest beekeeper]

'stone dust'

My driveway was done using 'crusher dust'. A local concrete guy has a few stone quarries, and operates a rock crusher. As they grind rocks and grade them by size for projects, they also pile up a lot of 'dust'. These are particles from quarter-sized chips down to dust. He sells it for driveways and such, and it packs down very tight. Since their primary business is the graded stone, the crusher dust is a by-product he sells it cheap to get rid of the excess. I like it.

I think that you could use 'crusher dust' for a bed underneath bricks, and do okay.

The weeds would not be from stuff coming up from underneath. It would be seeds that blow in on the wind and settle in the cracks.

You could lay fabric under the dust, but I do not have weeds coming up through my driveway. I do have shallow weeds trying to get started though, they are clearly seeds that landed there from nearby brush.

You would have to deal with them each year.

[woolwiTch]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

'stone dust'

My driveway was done using 'crusher dust'. A local concrete guy has a few stone quarries, and operates a rock crusher. As they grind rocks and grade them by size for projects, they also pile up a lot of 'dust'. These are particles from quarter-sized chips down to dust. He sells it for driveways and such, and it packs down very tight. Since their primary business is the graded stone, the crusher dust is a by-product he sells it cheap to get rid of the excess. I like it.

I think that you could use 'crusher dust' for a bed underneath bricks, and do okay.

The weeds would not be from stuff coming up from underneath. It would be seeds that blow in on the wind and settle in the cracks.

You could lay fabric under the dust, but I do not have weeds coming up through my driveway. I do have shallow weeds trying to get started though, they are clearly seeds that landed there from nearby brush.

You would have to deal with them each year.

When you say you used crusher dust for your driveway, do you mean your driveway is just compacted crusher dust or that crusher dust is the base and you paved over that? We have a really long driveway that is about 1/4 asphalt (the part nearest the house) and gravel for the rest. We need to replace the asphalt (40+ years old and it's a mess) and upgrade the gravel. We're researching options and looking for something that isn't too expensive and won't be hard to snowblow.

We're also looking for options for a 16'x24' patio, so the prior discussions are interesting.

Good luck with your move to Maine, ExAirForce!

[forest beekeeper]

Originally Posted by woolwiTch

When you say you used crusher dust for your driveway, do you mean your driveway is just compacted crusher dust or that crusher dust is the base and you paved over that? We have a really long driveway that is about 1/4 asphalt (the part nearest the house) and gravel for the rest. We need to replace the asphalt (40+ years old and it's a mess) and upgrade the gravel. We're researching options and looking for something that isn't too expensive and won't be hard to snowblow.

We're also looking for options for a 16'x24' patio, so the prior discussions are interesting.

Good luck with your move to Maine, ExAirForce!

The county road is about 2 to 3 foot higher than the forest in this immediate area. My land had a lot of ruts from the previous logging operation. They brought in crusher dust. They backed in dump trucks and dumped. While a dozer pushed it level, and a vibrating roller packed it down tight. They formed a 3 foot deep [tall?] road bed. About 3 foot above the surrounding forest floor.

I negotiated for my driveway to be 300 foot long and 15 foot wide. They had four dump trucks going back and forth all day dumping as fast as they could. The dozer operator asked if I would like a parking spot on the side for my motorhome, and I agreed. So he widened one area to 40 foot wide. But then he forgot to shrink it back down to 15 foot wide. So they built it 40 foot wide it's entire length. They said that they have so much crusher dust and so little market for it, that they just need to get rid of it from time to time.

When they were done it looked like a runway for landing a plane.

We have no pavement on it.

When it is packed down tight, it is near to concrete in hardness.

It was done in 2005.

This past winter it has developed it's first pothole. I have already filled it in.

I could see the need to re-apply one more dump truck of crusher dust, spread it out and pack it down every few years. But our driveway does not need it yet. Looking at our driveway, I would guess that by 2015, it may require to be touched up. [every 10 years, maybe]

[mollysmiles]

I'm late coming in but I have to say that we have a poured concrete front "porch" at the front of this split level house. The house is 33 years old, and we're trying like crazy to keep it from crumbling before our very eyes. Three years ago we had a planter section built along the entire front of the porch after doing some patching (miserable with concrete btw) to help slow the deterioration on the front section. This spring we've discovered that a large chunk broke away on the side closest to the driveway--not on the very top porch section, but underneath. Because this porch bumps directly into the foundation (though a separate "pour" we suspect) we're hesitant to remove it and risk cracking the foundation. In addition, there are two cracks running the width of the porch, strategically sectioning the porch into thirds. We'll fill those this summer. We have no great solution to this, neither does anyone else.... just a few alternatives that we're not happy about at all.

My vote, go with the gravel and large patio blocks.

[forest beekeeper]

Originally Posted by mollysmiles

I'm late coming in but I have to say that we have a poured concrete front "porch" at the front of this split level house. The house is 33 years old, and we're trying like crazy to keep it from crumbling before our very eyes. Three years ago we had a planter section built along the entire front of the porch after doing some patching (miserable with concrete btw) to help slow the deterioration on the front section. This spring we've discovered that a large chunk broke away on the side closest to the driveway--not on the very top porch section, but underneath. Because this porch bumps directly into the foundation (though a separate "pour" we suspect) we're hesitant to remove it and risk cracking the foundation. In addition, there are two cracks running the width of the porch, strategically sectioning the porch into thirds. We'll fill those this summer. We have no great solution to this, neither does anyone else.... just a few alternatives that we're not happy about at all.

My vote, go with the gravel and large patio blocks.

Reading your description it sounds to me like they did not use enough steel rebar in the concrete when they poured it.

The Old Town US post office had that problem. Steps, planters, sidewalk, etc, and it all kept heaving, cracking each year.

Two years ago, they dug out the front of the building, and poured huge footers 8 foot deep. 7 foot vertical foundation walls with rebar every foot, back filled that with dirt and finally on top of the foundation walls they poured new sidewalks. With wheel chair access and handrails. It all looks very nice. But they seriously went over-board in how deep it is.

In your case, if they did a concrete porch with no rebar in it, then when the ground underneath does try to heave it will split.

Looking at properties around here shopping, we have been seeing a lot of foundations that have massive cracks. If one end of a foundation sinks and pulls away, or one spot is trying to heave. If there is no rebar in it, then the foundation will crack.

Our house foundation has a lot of rebar in the concrete. But not all do this. The foundation contractor that I hired does more foundations in Penobscot county than all other contractors combined [or so says the concrete maker]. He does foundations with rebar, if the plans call for it. Even now only about half of the plans will call for rebar to be included in the foundations of homes.

Another trick is to use micro-fibers. 1/2 inch long polyester or vinyl fibers mixed in the concrete will make concrete that will not crack. Concrete can then be poured in thinner layers and will retain more strength. I stock these fibers and use them when I make concrete. Even when making stepping stones the difference is clear. Without fibers the concrete has a greater tendency to crack. The fibers bind the concrete together.

I know this has nothing to do with patching an old cracked front porch. Sorry.

Rip it out and pour a new one.

You get to design the new one.

You can specify that the new one have rebar in it, and maybe even fibers.

Anyone pouring concrete really needs to consider including rebar and fibers.

There are many foundations in this area that we have seen in our shopping, that have cracks. Folks may not have known about rebar, or the guy pouring did not know [or care]. But if something tries to heave underneath your house, either the concrete will crack; or it will hold together and fit the heave.

[msina]

Having fallen on those old steps at the Old Town P.O. (most embarrasing, lol) I think the new steps and ramp are great!

[woolwiTch]

Wow, forest, thanks for the great info on your driveway and the story of its construction. I will definitely be checking out the crusher dust idea.

[forest beekeeper]

Originally Posted by woolwiTch

Wow, forest, thanks for the great info on your driveway and the story of its construction. I will definitely be checking out the crusher dust idea.

You are certainly welcome to come by and see it.

Looking at it today, I noticed that it is no longer billiard table flat. This is it's fourth year, and I think it has at least another four years, before it will need another load put on it.

[AliceT]

My driveway in Maine. No matter what the project, you are better off using just about anything other than a concrete slab. Although this is gravel and gravel dust, it is packed hard and all cars can travel right up to my camp without making a sound. Water will seep through and off it, you can always add to it by bag or truck load and no matter what you want to place on your patio, it will have a firm footing on this kind of base. Pushing a loaded wheelbarrow is a breeze on this too.

[wordsmith680]

Originally Posted by mollysmiles

. We have no great solution to this, neither does anyone else.... just a few alternatives that we're not happy about at all.

My vote, go with the gravel and large patio blocks.

I have encountered a similar situation on several buildings. Rather than tear out I was able to build a deck to top and extend for aesthetics and safety. Many of the poured porches are one step below the sill and especially if it is covered eliminating the step at the door is a plus.
As to the thread topic I agree with pavers. It is worth the expense of true pavers and not cement / brick they are not the same.