Kittery & York vs. Greater Portland Area (South Portland, Brunswick: oceanfront, apartment)

[Sunday1]

We're expanding our search for homes (long-term leases) in the Portland area to include the southern coast. Unlike the Portland area, which we have visited twice, we've never been to the southern coast, and have become interested in Kittery and/or York.

What are the pros and cons of living in Kittery or York as
opposed to the Portland area? (We've been looking at Freeport/Brunswick/Yarmouth/Cape E, Chandler's Wharf downtown, etc.)

I've searched for Kittery info on here, but it's almost all about visits and vacations, not "living there" information.

Thanks for the help!

[RMoore007]

My family lived in Eliot for about a decade in the 60's. We all loved it there. Milder winters compared to Central Maine. Many beaches and seacoast activities. Boston close. Portland close. I wish we still had that house on a penninsula in South Eliot. Shopping in NH is convenient too.
hth

[tcrackly]

Southern Maine is all about convenience. You can have all the "vacationland" of Maine just a short drive away (or walk, depending on your preferences for recreation) and still be just an hour or so from Portland or Boston. You pay for the convenience however. This area can be fairly congested in the summer tourist months and it is always more expensive than other parts of Maine. Think "Boston bedroom community". There are beautiful homes tucked away in more suburban or even rural parts of town. Realtors and locals can point you toward neighborhoods more like your preferences. You might even find some bargain McMansions in this current housing bust. there was a LOT of development in the past 15 years producing single family homes in the $175000 to $350000 range around the coastal towns.

[Sunday1]

Thanks TC. I think it might be too pricey but we're looking at it in order to avoid some pressure from DH's employer to be in Boston. No offense to any Bostonians, but we have zero interest in living there. If my husband could get to an office in Boston a few times a week without it taking hours and we could live in Maine it might be the compromise we need. I really like the Portland area, but we'll see what happens. Thanks again for the input, TC.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by tcrackly

Think "Boston bedroom community".

You know, I hear this from time to time from different people up here and I don't get it. I came from a "Boston bedroom community" and Southern Maine is nothing like it. I agree that Southern Maine is certainly a bit different than Northern Maine (or even Mid-coast Maine). It's a bit more expensive and a bit more densely populated but that doesn't make it a Boston bedroom community. I think people say this because it is a bit more expensive than Northern Maine and there is a higher population density and Boston just happens to be the closest significant city so it fits. However, it couldn't be further from the truth.

Maine as a whole is one of the more rural states in the nation. Northern Maine is one of the most rural areas you'll find in the lower 48. Just because Southern Maine isn't quite that sparsely populated or cheap (in terms of cost of living) doesn't make it similar to one of the largest and most densely settled metropolitan areas in the country.

I really dislike the comparison. For one, there are few areas more expensive to live in the U.S. than Metro Boston (Bay Area/Silicon Valley, Metro NYC, and some of metro LA may be the only places). Southern Maine, though more expensive than Northern Maine, isn't even in the same ballpark. An apartment anywhere within Route 128 around Boston will cost DOUBLE what you'll pay for an identical apartment in the most elite area in the Portland area or in Kittery or York.

Traffic even at the most heavily congested times in Southern Maine isn't in the same league as just about anywhere in Eastern Massachusetts (from Cape Cod to Newburyport). It just doesn't come close.

Southern Maine isn't very suburbanized. At least not nearly to the same degree that most of Eastern Massachusetts is. Even still, the most suburban areas in Maine are right around Portland and it's a very small area (mostly concentrated in Portland itself, South Portland, Scarborough, Falmouth, Cape Elizabeth and an occasional neighborhood in Gorham and Yarmouth). Kittery, York, Wells, Ogunquit, Kennebunk, etc are all mostly spared this suburbanization as well. In fact, the bulk of "suburbanization" is along Route 1. Once off of route 1, it quiets down and gets rural quickly (except of course, on the waterfront, but find me oceanfrontage anywhere with the exception of Alaska and far Eastern Maine with no clusters of housing). No, it's not as rural as Northern Maine (not many places are), but it's not even CLOSE to the endless sprawl that makes up most of Eastern MA.

These Southern Maine towns have more charm and quaintness than just about any suburb of Boston. They're also a lot less densely settled. Sure, the summer months may be a bit busier, but this is true of most of New England. Comparing Southern Maine's set up to suburban Boston is unfair an inaccurate on all counts. In fact, it would be more fair to compare it with Cape Cod, but even then it's a bit of a stretch as Cape Cod lacks the quiet, undeveloped spots just off of the primary routes that Southern Maine has.

Don't be discouraged by Southern Maine. it may not be as sparsely settled and secluded as it's northern other half, but it's CERTAINLY not like the Boston area. In fact, it's a heck of a commute to Boston from even Kittery. To commute into Boston from Kittery (assuming you live right near the highway) on a weekday morning you're looking at well over an hour (with traffic, expect it to be close to 2 hours) because you're bound to sit in traffic when you get into the Boston area. On a clear (non-holiday Saturday and Sunday are usually the only "clear" days) day it's still around an hour and ten minutes to an hour and 20 minutes to Boston. It's HARDLY a bedroom community.

If you're looking further South than Portland, you'll find that the most thickly suburbanized and settled areas are just across the State Line in New Hampshire. Again, Route 1 contains most box retail and suburban shopping in Southern Maine. It really isn't that bad.

I don't blame you for not wanting to live in the Boston suburbs. It's a miserable existence (unless you can afford to fork over $3 million for a nice tudor in Newton). I am looking forward to living in Boston, but I mean IN Boston where i can live within walking distance of everything and live car free and rely on transit to get me where I need to go. Commuting into town by car is a nightmare. Even commuting within the suburbs is a pain as it's densely populated and and there's a lot of congestion. No worries, even most thickly settled and suburbanized areas of Southern Maine don't approach this.

Now, you did ask about a comparison between Portland and Kittery/York. Both are nice options. I really like Kittery and York (Blue Sky on York Beach is my favorite restaurant in Maine). I also love Portsmouth NH across the river. Downtown Portsmouth is architecturally and functionally very similar to Portland's Old Port (Portland is a little more than twice Portmouth's size). I actually feel that Portsmouth has a more in tact historic district than the Old Port. It also does offer the same types of venues for someone looking for good restaurants, bars, shops, etc. Market Square in Portsmouth is VERY similar to the plaza in the center of the Old Port. You won't be sacrificing many amenities in that regard by choosing one of those areas over the other.

The Fox-Run Mall is the nearest suburban retail center (Newington NH has most of the box stores and malls) to Kittery. It's not in the same ballpark as the Maine Mall. the Maine Mall area is better. I enjoy the concentration of suburban retail in Portland better than Portsmouth. Portland's airport is much better as well.

The coast in Portland is equally as beautiful as the coast in the Kittery/York/Portsmouth area. Portland gets the advantage with Casco Bay and the Islands though. It's a little less rocky in the Kittery area, but not too much. The cost of an apartment is similar in both areas. It may be harder to find a place in Kittery than in the Portland area (most rentals around Kittery will be seasonal with the bulk of year-round rentals in Portsmouth).

As far as "convenience of commute to Boston" goes, it's a tossup and depends on what you're looking for. Kittery/York is obviously closer to Boston in terms of distance. So if your husband's plan is to drive when he needs to get into town, then Kittery/York are about 40 minutes or so closer than Boston. However, Boston is an EXPENSIVE city to drive into. If you're husband plans on driving to town and parking he can plan on spending anywhere from $25-45 per day to park. When you combine that with $3 in tolls (assuming he doesn't go over the Tobin Bridge in Boston which is another $3.50 and you live South of the York Toll) and the 2 hours or so each direction, it may not be worth it. If that doesn't sound appealing, Portland and Amtrak's Downeaster (assuming it doesn't go out of service in September) and various Bus Services make it a bit more affordable and convenient for people commuting. It may be about 40 minutes longer from Portland by bus, but it's actually cheaper than driving (especially when you factor in parking tolls and gas) and your husband can relax and not let the stress of traffic get to him.

Judging by the fact that you've already fallen in love with Portland and the fact that it's not all that much worse of a commute to Boston when your husband needs to go (plus Portland has more alternate ways to town), I'd say go with Portland. I don't think Kittery or York are THAT much more convenient. In fact, they're both relatively inconvenient to Boston. If you love Portland as much as it seems like you do, then I don't know if it's really worth it to settle on Kittery or York. Though if you DO have to "settle" you could do a LOT worse than Kittery or York. That area is not at all like metro Boston, so if you do have to consider that more seriously, don't worry. Best of luck, Sunday1

[Sunday1]

Wow, lrfox - you deserve a gig with a major publisher. You could be the new Steve Birnbaum of Global Relocation...just a little something to do in your spare time. I have seldom read anything when researching places to move that rolls up as much data into such a cohesive, concise, and compelling read as your posts here. Your stuff now has a file of its own (trust me - that's a big compliment). Thank you!

As of yesterday, there are a couple of houses - several, actually - available for long-term leases in York and Kittery that appear to be nicer and at better prices right now than the houses we've identified in the Portland area. We're going to expand the time for a house hunting trip and take a good look at both. We were on college search visits the previous two trips with our DD -- we focused on campus visits to Bowdoin -- never realized a year or two later we'd be planning to move to the area! This time it will be all about where we want to live -- as soon-to-be-official empty nesters!

[entyss]

When you visit the Kittery area, make sure you get off of Route 1. There's a whole other world back here that most tourists aren't even aware of. Beaches, forts, trails. the same goes for York. It's a beautiful area. And the way I look at it, it's the best of both worlds. Portsmouth is a terrific little town, as IRFox has so eloquently stated. And you can't beat this area for weekend trips, within a couple of hours you've got the beauty of the Mt. Washington area in NH, the coastal towns of Connecticut (and the casinos), the artsy small towns of Vermont and the beauty of the Green Mountains, not to mention all the great villages like Salem and Gloucester in Mass. It's like having all of New England at your doorstep. In my opinion, Portland doesn't even compare. Good luck...

[fxtrader]

Originally Posted by Sunday1

Thanks TC. I think it might be too pricey but we're looking at it in order to avoid some pressure from DH's employer to be in Boston. No offense to any Bostonians, but we have zero interest in living there. If my husband could get to an office in Boston a few times a week without it taking hours and we could live in Maine it might be the compromise we need. I really like the Portland area, but we'll see what happens. Thanks again for the input, TC.

The commute is possible from the Portland area, but definetely more doable from the York/Kittery area. I commuted from the greater Portland area to Boston for over 3 years. I met many other who did the same and some who came from further north than Portland. You have the option of the bus or the train if you don't want to do the drive. It was worth it to me to be able to stay in ME.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by Sunday1

Wow, lrfox - you deserve a gig with a major publisher. You could be the new Steve Birnbaum of Global Relocation...just a little something to do in your spare time. I have seldom read anything when researching places to move that rolls up as much data into such a cohesive, concise, and compelling read as your posts here. Your stuff now has a file of its own (trust me - that's a big compliment). Thank you!

Thanks a bunch! That's one heck of a compliment. I enjoy offering my input and I'm glad you've found it useful. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the kind words.

Also, I'm glad to hear that you've found some reasonably priced places in Kittery. If you can't get here right away, find the addresses and use google's streetview feature to get a sneak peak at the area. I hope you get one that works for you. It's a nice area (as is Portland).

Originally Posted by entyss

When you visit the Kittery area, make sure you get off of Route 1. There's a whole other world back here that most tourists aren't even aware of.

This is key. Route 1 is discouraging throughout Maine. The real treasures are off of this route and Kittery and York are no different.

[tcrackly]

My comments were not meant as discouragement but a realistic view based on my experiences. I grew up in Boston, lived there for 25 years. I have also lived in Wells for 20 years. Not knowing any specifics about the poster's needs I gave my honest opinion. In fact, sunday1 might consider Wells or even the Berwicks, depending on how much closeness to the ocean is desirable. Wells even has a major stop on the Downeaster line for Boston commutes. The Google street level search is an excellent way to virtually view the neighborhoods . And yes, distance from route ! makes all the difference in the world.