Maine DOT canceling most paving work

[BrokenTap]

Originally Posted by kygman

They don't use tar up there? How do they keep the new blacktop on the roads? That tar is the bonding agent between the old and new blacktop. Oil is heated to 150 degrees and a thin layer is sprayed on the road under the new blacktop.

Also somebody mentioned rock. Like was mentioned, the lack of 4 seasons up there could have something to do with it, but, and I have seen this in other states besides Kentucky, we patch some roads with what they call chip and seal. Spray down hot oil and spread a thin layer of chips, which at the quarry they may call 9s. Run the roller over it and you have a good, and cheaper, patch.

That doesn't work here. Maine is made up of glacial till which means lots and lots of rocks. Since many of these roads were built as "county roads" back in the 1800's, the rocks from cleared land and rockwalls were thrown under the road as base. It worked well as a base to keep wagon wheels from cutting into the mud, but when it gets cold, frost (which expands 9%) pushes these rocks upward. Since rock absorbs heat differently then soil, it fractures the hot top and contorts the road unbelievably in the spring.

Another issue that you don't have to deal with is culverts. Maine gets over 100" of precipitation a year, and with 42,000 gallons of water coming off just one acre of softscape...that can be a significant amount of water running through a culvert. During the Spring, the roads are heaved by 9% or more because of the frost in the ground, but that "warm" water running through the culvert melts the frost underneath. That causes the culvert to drop while the rest of the road remains high. If the road crews are smart they put gravel in the dropped culvert to get them level. The dumb crews fill them up with hot top. Then a month later when the road thaws out, the hot top they thre in is now a big hump.

Now as all this happens there is no guarantee that all the lifting and dropping is going to allow the roadbase to go back to where it was. To some degree the trucks and cars pound the road back down, but maybe with wheel ruts and pot holes on the softer spots. I watched the milk truck roll up past my house this Spring and the road would roll under his 100,000 pound weight. Since he does this every day, you could imagine the carnage that results. Add in a few years of that and you get a pretty beat up road.

Southern roads don't take nearly the punishment that roads in the snowbelt endure, but there still must be a better way.

[peachie_in_maine]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

Maine DOT to cancel most maintenance paving work - Boston.com

Maine DOT is canceling most maintenance paving work

.

I believe it.. Calais is almost a wagon drawn road again. My great grandfather would be shocked at the "flash in time on most of the streets.

I know I know.. I'm ravin'.

[BrokenTap]

You would think Maine would be more eligible for Federal Funding for roads. It just stands to reason that if the precipitation in Maine is increasing, and that we are getting 5 additional inches of rain per year then 8 years ago, and an uptick in precipitation that goes back 50 years...storm damage and the need to upgrad culvert sizing and stuff would be required as well.

I happen to be in the midst of a road building job (NRCS funded) and doing some culvert sizing for that road. Did you know that 1 inch of rain equals 42,000 gallons of water in run-off. (More for pavement and hardscape and less for forest land). That means the amount of water run-off I have is 210,000 gallons more per acre then what my Grandfather had when he owned this farm.

If I did the math right, that means in the last 50 years Maine has gotten an addional 3 trillion gallons in addional water, while other states have lost a considerable amount of water as they dry up from droughts.

Of course money for roads is a political issue and not based on need or the environmental element. But perhaps Maine could help use our addional precipitation amounts as a reason to help channel some federal fiscal assistance our way?

PS: For those that like useless facts...the entire state of Maine recieves about one quadtrillion gallons of water per year in run-off.

[dubthang]

Since water requires a 2% pitch to run, I suggest we raise the entire state up enough to allow the runoff to drain back towards the drier states. Not only would this help with our water issues, but it would greatly help with theirs.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by dubthang

Since water requires a 2% pitch to run, I suggest we raise the entire state up enough to allow the runoff to drain back towards the drier states. Not only would this help with our water issues, but it would greatly help with theirs.

Forget that ....bottle it and sell it to them!

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by BrokenTap

That doesn't work here. Maine is made up of glacial till which means lots and lots of rocks. Since many of these roads were built as "county roads" back in the 1800's, the rocks from cleared land and rockwalls were thrown under the road as base. It worked well as a base to keep wagon wheels from cutting into the mud, but when it gets cold, frost (which expands 9%) pushes these rocks upward. Since rock absorbs heat differently then soil, it fractures the hot top and contorts the road unbelievably in the spring.

Another issue that you don't have to deal with is culverts. Maine gets over 100" of precipitation a year, and with 42,000 gallons of water coming off just one acre of softscape...that can be a significant amount of water running through a culvert. During the Spring, the roads are heaved by 9% or more because of the frost in the ground, but that "warm" water running through the culvert melts the frost underneath. That causes the culvert to drop while the rest of the road remains high. If the road crews are smart they put gravel in the dropped culvert to get them level. The dumb crews fill them up with hot top. Then a month later when the road thaws out, the hot top they thre in is now a big hump.

Now as all this happens there is no guarantee that all the lifting and dropping is going to allow the roadbase to go back to where it was. To some degree the trucks and cars pound the road back down, but maybe with wheel ruts and pot holes on the softer spots. I watched the milk truck roll up past my house this Spring and the road would roll under his 100,000 pound weight. Since he does this every day, you could imagine the carnage that results. Add in a few years of that and you get a pretty beat up road.

Southern roads don't take nearly the punishment that roads in the snowbelt endure, but there still must be a better way.

I'm old enough to remember when MOST of the roads around here were dirt roads. The dust from those roads in summer was unreal! They sprayed oil on them in August to try and keep the dust down somewhat or put calcium chloride on them to suck the moisture form the air "wetting" the road to keep down the dust. Every tree, bush and blade of grass within 10 feet of either side of the road was always covered with a thick covering of road dust. Cars were always filthy and thunder showers were quite welcome to wash all the dust off. The paved roads are all poor around here and the cars they make today are just not built beefy enough in the suspension to take the pounding. We are replacing shocks, struts and springs far more often than we ever did before.
I can't wiat until we're all relegated to battery powered golf carts from the Government run auto dealers. Pounding those death traps over these roads will be a real treat!