Forests in Maine: Good and Bad I guess... (sales, co-op)

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by BrokenTap

I agree mostly with what you said, but agriculture in Maine is not dying...it's actually growing. Granted it is coming from a very low point, but Maine does have the highest number of start up farms in the nation and it also has the youngest farmers (55 years old on average...other states are much, much worse).

The funny thing is, I am clearing wood land and making room for more fields and I am not alone. On a 20 minute ride from my house to Belfast, I can count 12 other landowners that are also clearing fields.

Will the trend continue?

I suppose. Maine is doing better than VT on that. But the U.S. as a whole has become a net importer of food, and that I think points to a problem. There's no reason for us to be.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

The trend toward more fields will continue. Mainers will become subsistence farmers out of necessity. At least it's easier to clear fields now because many of the old glacial till rocks are already in stone walls around old fields. Just clear the new stumps and plant.

For those who wonder, there is no tree growth penalty for taking land from the tree growth program and putting it in to either the open space program or the farm program. Of course, unless you own very large parcels the tree growth program is a loser in the long run.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

I suppose. Maine is doing better than VT on that. But the U.S. as a whole has become a net importer of food, and that I think points to a problem. There's no reason for us to be.

If a person has the will, land and desire to do so they can grow all of their own vegetables on a small plot of land, freeze, can, pickle or dry the harvest and buy no veggies from the store from harvest to harvest. When our kids were little we saved a TON of money raising our own food. We had a garden, raised chickens and turkeys, hunted and fished, dug clams and even fished for lobsters and crabs for a while. We bought milk,beef,pork and paper goods and that was about it. If you're willing to do it, it can be done even if you work full time. It's rewarding to do and an education you cannot get in school. They are essential skills you will always have and may be life saving should the bottom drop completely out of the economy. Remember if the economy completely tanks out even gold will have no value. Governments hoard gold and will release it to the market en mass should their currency fail. The flood of gold will make your personal stash pretty much worthless. The one thing they can never take from you is acquired skills. If you know how to take care of yourself you will be one of the few. The rich people will be the ones with the food!

[BrokenTap]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

The trend toward more fields will continue. Mainers will become subsistence farmers out of necessity. At least it's easier to clear fields now because many of the old glacial till rocks are already in stone walls around old fields. Just clear the new stumps and plant.

For those who wonder, there is no tree growth penalty for taking land from the tree growth program and putting it in to either the open space program or the farm program. Of course, unless you own very large parcels the tree growth program is a loser in the long run.

I agree.

Growing up my grandparents were just as close to 100% self-sufficient as you could get. They had all manner of livestock, raised broilers and hens, dairy cows and beef, pigs and sheep, not to mention having a greenhouse, hay ground, potatoes and corn. They also cut their own wood (25 cords per year) and harvested pulp and logs.

Nowadays its got a fancy name called homesteading but we just called it growing up poor. I know what its like because I did it, but as we got more money and the farm started being profitable, little by little we dropped the more labor intensive aspects of things and grew lazy.

The thing was, we were not alone. Most families around me had gardens, woodlots, farmable ground and took care of themselves. Then the 80's came around and we started to get lazy...taking the kids to a baseball game was better then having the kids weed the garden. In a lot of ways I think forcing ourselves back to a simpler set of standards where the vast majority of us took care of ourselves (at least partially) would be good.

My biggest concern is with the agricultural brain drain. Maine has the youngest population of farmers and yet it is still very high. That means a lot of people haven't grown up around livestock and have no idea what having livestock entails. And its not like there is much help out there. The USDA will lose 70% of its employees to retirement in the next 5 years...and the cooperative extension is not much better. With only ½% of this nation being farmers, where will all these people go to get information about farming? There are a lot of myths and mistruths out there and I can envion even more con artists jumping into agriculture to help glean well meaning people of their hard earned cash.

Over on another forum (NOT city data) I was recently told that "farming experience" such as mine was overated and unnessasary, but I disagree. All it takes is a visit to a few agriculture seminars and you'll see what I mean. A speaker from Maine last year claimed that "foot rot and foot scald were the same thing, (they are NOT the same thing), the Maine Livestock Expert had not even heard of probiotics, nor did she know that cow grain cannot be fed to sheep due to the copper in it that will kill a sheep, and a state vet that did not think sheep can get Johnes Diseas (they can). These were all people going to farms and dispensing advice. I am not saying they don't have merit, but its scary that they are the "knowledgable voice of agriculture." I feel fortunate to have grown up around 3 dairy farms and grandparents that did, instead of talking about it.

Was it hard growing up?

Damn hard, but the hardest path is always the best path to take. Its called building character and you cannot go to college and get that. The fact that there are people without experience, looking for it and already casting away those that do and truly know, is scary.

I remember fielding an email last year that said, "If I have some dairy goats in my mountain cabin, how much milk will they give if I let them loose and then come back and milk them every couple of weeks?" That question just goes to show how far away some of these people are removed from proper animal husbandry. The problem is, we as farmers want to fight each other over whether we should have tractors or not, and whether a small farm or big farm is better. What we really should be doing is banding together and educating the public. With bull calf's going for $4 a piece right now, we have sold a pile of calf's to homesteaders to raise as beef, but they have to be educated on how to raise them. Even then I am sure only half of what we tell them sinks in, so we (as a farming community) should do more in the way of education.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Cut and paste folks. There are wise words in this thread.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Maineah

If a person has the will, land and desire to do so they can grow all of their own vegetables on a small plot of land, freeze, can, pickle or dry the harvest and buy no veggies from the store from harvest to harvest. When our kids were little we saved a TON of money raising our own food. We had a garden, raised chickens and turkeys, hunted and fished, dug clams and even fished for lobsters and crabs for a while. We bought milk,beef,pork and paper goods and that was about it. If you're willing to do it, it can be done even if you work full time. It's rewarding to do and an education you cannot get in school. They are essential skills you will always have and may be life saving should the bottom drop completely out of the economy. Remember if the economy completely tanks out even gold will have no value. Governments hoard gold and will release it to the market en mass should their currency fail. The flood of gold will make your personal stash pretty much worthless. The one thing they can never take from you is acquired skills. If you know how to take care of yourself you will be one of the few. The rich people will be the ones with the food!

I've long been of the same opinion. I'm 5,000 miles away from my own land right now but I still managed to get a decent sized garden and I hunt and trap too...wish I could do some livestock (and I really want to get some bees) but I could manage even without that...

[maureenb]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Cut and paste folks. There are wise words in this thread.

And I actually am crying. Definitely wise words, NMLM. My heart is in sustainable farming, but I'm not. I just can't figure out how to get from point A to point B.

I'm working a job that's useful, but I'm not convinced I'm wired for it. I know I'd rather be poor as dirt and working in the dirt than doing what I'm doing. The wealth is indeed in dirt. I've ended up building a little house with a very modest inheritance. My first choice would've been to use the money to buy fence & sheep... When I think about the direction society is taking, even at a local level, I am saddened. I'm just going with the flow of it, which makes me even sadder - and part of the 'problem.' I'm not suggesting everybody needs to farm. I wholeheartedly support an increase in this direction, though. It just makes sense.

Someone said keeping a sustainable garden is possible even while working a full time job. Maybe I'm not tough enough to make this happen. I try, but there's so little time outside of work - especially working overnight shift. Guilty - should be hoeing, not typing...

I'm totally ignorant about pellets. Don't know how they're made, where they're currently being manufactured or what they're made of. Do they represent a viable heating trend? Is soft wood be processed into pellets? I haven't done my homework.

Thanks for this thread.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Pellets can be made from any fuel. They could even be made from hay. They are mostly made from hardwood. Some are softwood or a random blend. You want to buy a good quality pellet that at least claims low ash. Most pellet stoves were designed for low ash pellets, but some sand and dirt gets mixed in. It is inevitable. The best pellet raw material is sawdust because it is already quite dry and takes less grinding and processing. It is a low cost feed material for the pellet company because drying wood for pellets is expensive. For example, one of the highest costs in producing paper is drying the product.

Pellets are indeed a viable heating fuel. One reason the stoves are so expensive is that people understand they are easy to operate and the demand is high. I believe stove prices will come down in the next couple of years as the market becomes satisfied.

[BrokenTap]

Oh you are being way to hard on yourself. I bet you didn't know that it only takes $1000 per year in profit to be considered a farm, and even then only ½ of those farms are full time farmers. Hobby and retirement farms make up ½% of the 1% of farmers that make up USA's population.

So you can't seem to get from point a to point b right now in your life huh? That's okay you can still support farming. In fact you don't even have to grow a garden. Growing a garden is tough work and if you don't have time, you just don't have time.

The local USDA District Conservationist is in this same boat so what does she do to ethically support agriculture...she joined a CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) At last count Maine had 115 of them so it is possible. If you dislike the idea of getting a box of food during the crop months for a fee, then check out the local food maps online and buy some eggs from the neighbor that has a cooler and money jar by the road, or the person selling stawberries, or the guy with a lamb for sale...

Lets assume for the minute that the brakes on your car don't work and you don't want to do those two things (LOL), why not shoot a few emails to your congressman in support of agriculture? If you have been to this Maine Sub-forum at all you know that contacting legislatures does work. In this day and age, with farmers so low in population, anyone that sticks up for us is a friend even if our methods may differ. I constantly stick up for the organic producers even though I am conventional, simply because there is a market for organic food that I don't provide for. Still some of my neighbors do eat organic food and its good for farming to be diversified with different markets. It takes all of us to feed this country. Conventional farmer versus organic farmer, or naturally gown certification versus organic certification arguments are silly and erode the true goals of farming in my opinion...

So keep smiling...keep your job...and don't feel you need to get your hands dirty to help farms. Simply put, you can help us contact congressman to help us...for us that is the dirty work because we lack time to do that. It's just a different perspective on "helping" that's all.

Now do you feel better? I hope so. You care...that's all that farmers ask...to care about what we do.

[BrokenTap]

Oh...and you can go and talk to the farmers who are at the local fairs too. You don't even have to spend money...just some time away from the games and rides to make a farmers day by showing that you care.

Bangor Fair will be starting soon...I have often wondered how many people have gone there and never once checked out the agriculture section of that fair? Why not try it this year and make a farmers day???