Actual Employment Info on Maine (Portland, Bangor: sales, insurance, mortgage)

[Danmac]

Originally Posted by Fern435

Danmac--It's strange that someone considering a move to Maine does not seem willing to accept the experiences the Maine posters here have.

Why are you drawn to Maine?

(Not trying to be negative...just wondering. Perhaps it would help if you share it.)

Well aside from the negative attitudes presented by some posters here, initally drawn for the weather. I'm sure you folks have already begun to see an increase in people relocating further North these days, even here in NC were seeing people from the more Southern States as well as those from out West move here. And like some Maine posters here the NC locals are upset as well and are doing similar tactics about those who are inquiring about relocal to NC. Mostly here it's cause from what the locals say, is that it causes property taxes to inflate, destroys the scenery as they obviously have to build more homes and rental units etc.

Next I am drawn to Maine for the comfortable relaxed lifestyle I've been told oozes out of everything up there, and not to mention I want snow snow snow! Plus again aside from some of the negative fluff on these threads I'm told by those who are both from and those relocated to Maine that people up that way are very nice and friendly.

Now I want to try and get something clear here, it's not that I can't or wont take some advice, it's the fact that I didn't ask for it. My inital post was whats the take in Maine on Massage Therapy, you know do people up that way believe in it is it utilized as a normal medical treatment, and boy that went in all types of directions none positive, about how Male Therapists will struggle and how no one wants a male therapist touching them , and I will only be waisting money if I come up there etc. You see no positive stuff, even if it were to be true it's not what I asked about.

You folks should want to sell your state, if it's struggling as much as everyone has said here then you'd want more people to move your way, cause that's the only way the economy is going to get better, money follows people and industry.

I guess maybe I felt like people are trying to steer others away, I mean no one persons financial situation is the same as the next, nor are their careers. And when I tried to explain to one older Mainer here that the financial aspects of working and relocating aren't an issue for me, I then got a bitter response on how I was a silver spoon etc. You know that type of junk, and if you read my posts Im curious.

But as I've mentioned my private mail box on this site is full w/ locals and relocated folks who all have a similar tone that I shouldn't put to much weight into what a significant portion of posters here are saying, that things are wonderful up that way, and true things are tough in some industries but in my 2 career fields I will have no problem, that's what I was told privately.

I appreciate you asking me about the reasoning for my move, thank you!

DANIEL

[Danmac]

Originally Posted by mainebrokerman

dan if you are an rn, you are in one of the best sought after jobs in maine, you will have a choice to where you want to live.
maine is a beautiful state, i've lived here all my life, and most of us welcome newcomers.

my son is a teenager, im trying to nudge him to be a pharmacist, but id be happy if he were an r.n. excellent job security!

thats my experience in maine- my sons mother is an r.n. and has an excellent career


good luck in your search, listen to the folks that have moved up here from away, they do seem to like it..

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, NOW THIS IS THE TYPE OF STUFF I'VE HEARD YOU MAINERS ARE MADE OF, NOW THAT'S POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT, NO DOOM AND GLOOM!

Thanks Man again!

[Danmac]

Originally Posted by Maineah

Many people "lurk" if you will and don't bother opining. You're welcome to believe whatever you wish. Take a look at the reputation points of those you are calling the "same old suspects". The points did not fall out of the sky. By dismissing our opinions and advice even though we live here and you have never done so, gives us all pause to wonder what your motive really is. I hope you have better luck making friends in Portland than you have on this forum.

Again great input thanks for the tremendous insight!

[Danmac]

Originally Posted by dmyankee

Ah, but the numbers do lie! York and Cumberland Counties consistently skew the statistics. Unemployment in many counties can be 10%, in a good month. The stats fail to include the 2, 3 and four wage families working multiple jobs, that barely scrape by. I have seen many a fortune depleted within a couple of years by many couples coming up here to live a dream, only to leave broke or bankrupt. That includes a half a dozen LMT's.

Well unfortunately if the #'s are lying then that's all we have to go on. I mean is any one persons financial situation the same as the nexts? I never asked about the state of Maines economy, simply about what the people in Maine thought in regards to Massage Therapy. But I got alot more than I bargained for.

I'm not moving to Maine to make money or even make a living, I moving for the people, weather, and the relaxed environment I've heard such wonderful things about.

I wish you all the best!

[Danmac]

Originally Posted by RMoore007

I keep coming back to Maine. The local area is like a magnet made of old bones for me. It's just got too much family history and memories.

The job market here is a far cry from the other coast. My 21yo son lives there and works for me and has a second job (Sacramento). He could find more work if he had to. He drives a new car and motorcycle. Lives in his own halfplex while going to school. Here, my brother lost his job. The other lost 15 hours a week. A nephew just left for Kansas City for work, a musician. My neice and nephew across the street are lucky to be working now. Took them all winter. A sister has been on and off work for some time now.

Still, not a one of them, or me, want to leave this place. There is something to be said for stubbornness.

I'm just a stubborn, curmudgeon living in an 1850's dungeon.

Great post! You know what they say about Musicians and Artisits, always starving = .

[reloop]

Originally Posted by Danmac

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, NOW THIS IS THE TYPE OF STUFF I'VE HEARD YOU MAINERS ARE MADE OF, NOW THAT'S POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT, NO DOOM AND GLOOM!

Thanks Man again!

Ya know, I think if one were to put into perspective what many say about jobs/economy/way of life, etc...in the "now vs. back then" you may come to have a better understanding of why there can seem to be such negativity. I try not to be negative, but negativity also needs to be balanced by not donning rose-colored glasses on the other extreme. To me, I welcome anyone who wants to live in Maine as long as they know what they're getting into in terms of the way of life, and what their expectations vs. reality is. It's a balance. What you are reading (in my opinion) is pure frustration of a system that seems to be going from self-sufficiency to public assistance.

When people site employment statistics, the first thing that I want to know is if part-time and seasonal employment is tallied into the whole picture. Oftentimes, I find that "employment numbers" don't even begin to paint the whole picture - hence the reason people need to come up here and see for themselves.

Just in case you weren't already aware, in Maine, we used to have a booming forestry/paper product industry. I'm talking booming. As only one example, Millinocket was completely built around that industry. Those jobs provided excellent pay, benefits and retirement. Slowly, through a myriad of causes (which I'll not get into) the town is now trying to survive on what's left of the industry (not much) and tourism. The replacement of $20 an hour jobs for jobs that pay half or less than that are usually counted in employment "statistics." I am always amazed at how that never seems to get accurately added into job numbers. Although it may appear that there are many negative posts - IMHO, what you are hearing is the absolute frustration of many people who are trying to make a living up here, and many of whom are losing money daily because one can't always pay the bills (again for a myriad of reasons) on tourism/retail jobs. The self-employed group may have to skate for months on the latest job, and has to plan accordingly for bill payments during "downtime."

Speaking of the self-employed, there are many up here. The economy is bad everywhere, absolutely, and Maine is no different in that regard. This year, with the economy as bad as it is, it's obvious that many of those who depend on tourist dollars are bleeding - profusely - couple that with the state trying to balance the budget with increased tax and fee revenue, and can't you see why there's a little angst? IMO, this is what happens when we put all of our eggs in the tourism basket. Sighhh...I'll drop that.

Nonetheless, as much as I try to leave the bitterness out of my personal posts (since I am human - admittedly difficult at times ) I have to say that I can certainly understand why some posters are getting testy. It is difficult to live up here for many average families (income and climate-wise) - those who are retired and on a pension, or those who are able to work from home have an easier time, but please try to cut a little slack to some that are "venting" while they see their income/opportunities dwindle.

Personally, I have to believe it'll get better eventually - life always has bumps in the roads, and change is sometimes a good and not-so-good necessary evil.

[Danmac]

Originally Posted by reloop

Ya know, I think if one were to put into perspective what many say about jobs/economy/way of life, etc...in the "now vs. back then" you may come to have a better understanding of why there can seem to be such negativity. I try not to be negative, but negativity also needs to be balanced by not donning rose-colored glasses on the other extreme. To me, I welcome anyone who wants to live in Maine as long as they know what they're getting into in terms of the way of life, and what their expectations vs. reality is. It's a balance. What you are reading (in my opinion) is pure frustration of a system that seems to be going from self-sufficiency to public assistance.

When people site employment statistics, the first thing that I want to know is if part-time and seasonal employment is tallied into the whole picture. Oftentimes, I find that "employment numbers" don't even begin to paint the whole picture - hence the reason people need to come up here and see for themselves.

Just in case you weren't already aware, in Maine, we used to have a booming forestry/paper product industry. I'm talking booming. As only one example, Millinocket was completely built around that industry. Those jobs provided excellent pay, benefits and retirement. Slowly, through a myriad of causes (which I'll not get into) the town is now trying to survive on what's left of the industry (not much) and tourism. The replacement of $20 an hour jobs for jobs that pay half or less than that are usually counted in employment "statistics." I am always amazed at how that never seems to get accurately added into job numbers. Although it may appear that there are many negative posts - IMHO, what you are hearing is the absolute frustration of many people who are trying to make a living up here, and many of whom are losing money daily because one can't always pay the bills (again for a myriad of reasons) on tourism/retail jobs. The self-employed group may have to skate for months on the latest job, and has to plan accordingly for bill payments during "downtime."

Speaking of the self-employed, there are many up here. The economy is bad everywhere, absolutely, and Maine is no different in that regard. This year, with the economy as bad as it is, it's obvious that many of those who depend on tourist dollars are bleeding - profusely - couple that with the state trying to balance the budget with increased tax and fee revenue, and can't you see why there's a little angst? IMO, this is what happens when we put all of our eggs in the tourism basket. Sighhh...I'll drop that.

Nonetheless, as much as I try to leave the bitterness out of my personal posts (since I am human - admittedly difficult at times ) I have to say that I can certainly understand why some posters are getting testy. It is difficult to live up here for many average families (income and climate-wise) - those who are retired and on a pension, or those who are able to work from home have an easier time, but please try to cut a little slack to some that are "venting" while they see their income/opportunities dwindle.

Personally, I have to believe it'll get better eventually - life always has bumps in the roads, and change is sometimes a good and not-so-good necessary evil.

I am the slack master, but the problem is I never asked for their opinion of the economic status of Maine, I was land blasted w/ accusations, and inuindo regarding myself all from a topic of "How to Mainers look at Massage" in that I got sexist, biased comments, not to mention an ongoing economy lesson I never requested or asked for.

While I feel for those whom are struggling, from what I can gather from some that have posted those neg posts they are either retired or at retirement age, in which case I can totally understand someone's frustration to try and get by on soc secur or a meager retirement etc is almost impossible in any state these days.

But in private emails from many seperate Mainers I've been reassured things aren't as doom and gloom as some have made it to sound.

Plus I can't totally wrap my head around what some have said here regarding the economy in Maine and seasonal work, as where I reside currently in NC Mtns it's the same as Maine depends largely on the tourist dime, and they are seeing a big drop off as well here, but I don't read no where near as much negativity on that city's site as I do for all of Maine.

Plus I'm moving to Portland where from what I've been told is the busiest and most profitable town in Maine, if not simply for the fact by it's population alone, and I believe many of those posts I've previously refered to are from maybe more rural and outlying areas, duynuh?

All in all I guess my point is if it's so bad in Maine and people are having such a hard time making a living then why are they still living there? I mean I have moved places like a Boone NC and realized w/ in the first 5mths that ooops! there is plenty of beauty here and absolutely no work, so I moved on afer a couple years.

To me for those who complain and do little about it, well then that's all they like to do is complain. If money is hard to come by in an area then it makes sense to relocate, to me that's simple people do it every day. I see folks move to Asheville NC where I'm at now see how there is little work here except for medicine and they move themselves and family to another city or state.

Looking at Maines stats not much as changed in the past year, now some may feel those #'s for some reason or another are skewed but in a majority of the states we saw single digit unemployment leap to double digits, which is cripling, and Maine saw what a 2% diff, now to temper that a 2% change can be huge in a very sparse population such as Maine.

What are your law makers doing to adjust to this horrible experience for Mainers? Lowering taxes, increasing jobs w/ bail out funds, putting the state behind the job market etc? And assuming what the response may be that law makers are doing nothing, then if that's the case why are they still in office? W/ such a small pop it'd be easy for Mainers to vote, impeach, or make changes, heck your state wide pop is virtually the same as my home town, it can't be that hard to get a grass routes movement going there if things are that dire? Just some additional info I'm curious about.

Thanks alot and if you'd be able to give me the above info that'd be great. Take care

[Acadianlion]

Originally Posted by Danmac

Well unfortunately if the #'s are lying then that's all we have to go on. I mean is any one persons financial situation the same as the nexts? I never asked about the state of Maines economy, simply about what the people in Maine thought in regards to Massage Therapy. But I got alot more than I bargained for.

I'm not moving to Maine to make money or even make a living, I moving for the people, weather, and the relaxed environment I've heard such wonderful things about.

I wish you all the best!

I keep wondering why Danmac refuses to accept information that he requested to be based on reality when that information comes from people who are HERE, NOW, and familiar with circumstances about which Danmac knows nothing. I am beginning to believe that Danmac is working undercover for the Maine governor's office of economic development because many times the information pouring out from Augusta isn't really related to the lives of Mainers living in "the real Maine".

One problem is that Danmac wants to use statistics to "prove" his theory about employment in Maine. As has been pointed out previously, the statistics are skewed by Cumberland and York Counties that are more like Massachusetts than Maine in most ways, including population density and general business development. Indeed, this is where the city of Portland is, with its largest in Maine city population, and the benefit of more than 150,000 or so year round residents living within thirty miles. Danmac really needs to compare Maine's largest economic and population center with Asheville, North Carolina: the greater Asheville area includes a four county area with half a million people. There aren't half a million people in the greater Portland area, and only 1.3 million people in all of Maine (although in this recession, I think that number has shrunk some).

Let me give an example of how life really is for a Maine family. There is a young fellow trying to establish himself as a carpenter/builder that I employ from time to time to do certain types of projects. My wife and I have been trying to help him along a litt because coming from a tough upbringing, he made some terrible choices and has paid for them. But Mark is a good worker, and now with wife and two children has straightened himself out a lot.

Mark and his family live in a little town east of Ellsworth. His work is sporadic, although he has made a couple of contacts with established builders who use him from time to time. Naturally, being self employed, he has no health insurance or other benefits. His wife is a CNA who works at a nursing home in Ellsworth.

Here's the rub: when his wife works, if she works in the day time, Mark must look after the two little kids. The children are both under five. If his wife works in the evening, then Mark must be home to take care of the children in the latter part of the afternoon and into the evening. They need two incomes to make it at all. She works for minimum wage. Hiring a baby sitter takes nearly everything that she makes, and just driving sixty miles round trip to work eats up her wages pretty fast also. Mark gets $20 per hour when he works.

The family cannot afford to pay $1500 or so for health insurance, so whenever a child gets sick, the bill is paid out of pocket.

One might be tempted to ask why Mark doesn't go and get a job working for a larger building company that will pay benefits. The reason is that there are NO such jobs available, there are ten applicants for all such jobs that might be available, and year round jobs in the construction industry in this part of Maine are pretty scarce in a strong economy, and none existent in this one.

I know the names of several dozen people who are in the same circumstances and not all of them are young. Many work hard to eeek out a living under tought circumstances, and although many could go elsewhere to work and live, they chose to stay here in this very small economy because this is where they like to be. Many Mainers have had the "North Carolina experience" and have ended up coming back here, even though basic living was harder than there.

My choice in coming to Maine was based on several factors, none of which are relevant here. But I came to Maine and when I tried to find work, I found nothing for which my education had prepared me for, except for my seventh grade shop skills. This was thirty one years ago, and I worked then for four bucks an hour doing a lot of things that weren't very pleasant, but kept me alive.

After a while I started my own insurance agency and then with some amazingly creative financing, bought an established agency and moved to a different part of Maine. Eventually, by driving about 50,000 miles a year and more, I managed to build the business into something that could support my wife, myself and my children. I bought another agency. Toward the end of my career, I was driving more than a thousand miles a week, and flying my own Cessna 172 about twenty hours per month on business. The agency developed enough volume to sell, and it was sold. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it?

Well, let me give you a comparison. I belonged to a study group run by one of the insurance companies that I represented. We met in New York or some other city about once a quarter. At one of these meetings I met a young insurance agent who was just about my mirror image. He was from a city on Long Island...I forget which...and his agency was almost exactly like mine: we both did business primarily with small to medium sized buisinesses, and we both developed about the same premium and commission dollars every year. We each had the same number of employees (two).

The difference was that he could walk to call on almost all of his clients who were all within about a mile of his office. I had to travel fifty thousand miles per year in a car to call on mine.

Now I am one of those retired people and soon my wife and I will retire even more deeply into rural Maine.

Do I think that young, enthusiastic people should move to Maine? Absoluitely! Maine needs young enthusiastic people because Maine's population is aging must faster than the rest of the country.

Do I think that young, enthusiastic people can "make it" in Maine? Absolutely! But "making it" in Maine might well be much, much different than it might be elsewhere. Danmac isn't looking for a $20 an hour factory job. That's a good thing, because those jobs are very, very scarce in Maine, except for some small pockets.

The plain truth is that life in Maine offers a relatively meagre existence compared to more populous areas of the country. That isn't feral negativism, but merely a statement of fact. It is also true that there is a quality to living in this state that is hard to find elsewhere, despite the small economy and large distances that must be covered by many people to find work.

By all means, Danmac should come and experience Maine. I recommend coming to visit Maine and spending a month or two just traveling around this large state, talking with people and seeing what life is like here. In fact, if Danmac is sincere, he will do as many who have come here to settle have already done, and that is to come up once in the summer and once in the deepest part of winter. Travel the entire state...no fair staying in Portland and thinking that you "know" Maine.

Seeing the activity that is swirling around in summer is encouraging. But you will know whether or not this is for you by seeing that same place devoid of swirling activity in the middle of February.

[Fern435]

Acadianlion, Northern Maine Land Man, Maineah, and others--

Thank you so much for your posts. Your knowledge and understanding of Maine issues definitely educate me (and I'm sure other readers).

[forest beekeeper]

Originally Posted by Danmac

One of the most common statements made on threads here to those wanting to make Maine their new home, is the barrage of responses on how horrible the economy is and how most will fail or be forced to relocate out of Maine.

Yes, that is repeated often.

... After reading this across most query'ed posts on moving to Maine, I felt it'd be a good idea to get the actual #'s, cause the #'s don't lie right!

Cute

... As of the most current information provided by the states and Govt alike, Maine as of June 2009 has an unemployment rate of 8.5%, which lands Maine smack dab in the middle of unemployment rates at #26.

One thing to keep in mind is that a couple administrations ago, the formula for calculating the 'Unemployment rate' was changed to remove folks who are not working. Now the numbers only include folks who are on unemployment.

From my reading, to get a 'real' number add 10%, If the government says 8%, then adjust it to 18% and you have a number closer to reality.

This is in effect in every state, coast-to-coast.

... Matter of fact most of the North East has some of the better employment rates in the US, NH 6.8, VT 7.2, Mass 8.6.

That sounds interesting.

... Now on the other side of things places like NC, Cali, SC, etc have been experiencing double digit unemployment for some time before the end of last year.

Tent cities have been popping up in many urban areas.

... So all in all it appears Maine's employment outlook is at worst no worse off than anywhere else in the US, and at best will rebound alot faster when things eventually turn around.

So lets not listen to all the negative hubbub about the Maine economy, do some research over listening to those that may have an agenda to not wanting any one from out of state to move in

From my reading, long before this current economic bubble burst, Maine's economy has been depressed since the invention of refrigeration when they lost the ice-block shipping industry. Since then it has been one failed industry after another.

But I am only looking at it as a pensioner.