moving north and looking for low cost of living (Portland: high crime, buying a home)

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by Syngar99

i will summarize my own feelings on heating costs-

some people (not all) have EASY access to alternate heat sources that do not rely on oil or gas. For them I appreciate their situation. I also know for several thousands of dollars people could implement such systems into their own homes.
However for many people (particularly new home owners and new moves) adding a wood or pellet stove is a cost that can't be fit into the budget. not to mention some people do not or can not be invested in some inherent pains in the ass parts of wood stoves ( i grew up with a wood stove as my primary heat source, and so i am aware of many issues involved with starting, running and stocking it).
Does a wood stove help defray heating costs in the long term? perhaps, but it is not some cure-all for any discussion regarding heating costs.

some people have room on their properties to grow garden, bless them, some have access to aquifers and free water, bless them too. THESE forums are not really for the woodsman living in BFE maine so much as for what i call 60 percenters- that is the 60 percent of mainers that live within an hour of civilization and do not have paul bunyans heritage to help the survive.

if you are a survivalist type or just a plain ole frontiersman sort, then thats great and i aspire t be one mysef one day, but your insights are not necessarily germane to some 20 yr old kid trying to rent a place in downtown bar harbor (for instance) lol.

i am not good with cars and i;ve gone onto forums to ask for advice, and there is always at least ONE wag that makes a comment about how EASY it is to do a repair, maybe it is, but if you have no experience with such things, its like telling a 10 yr old to cut someone open and do a colostomy.

if people want to give actual help to inexperienced people- glib comments about options that are beyond the average modern young person is NOT help.

The forum does actually get a fair amount of pioneer types looking for information on steel houses,gardening, alternative heating ideas,snow removal, driving tips etc. It's not just a rent referral forum for Portland or Bar Harbor and the surrounding areas.
We're not all Paul Bunyan's cousin here either. Many of us DID see the $5.00 a gallon fuel oil knocking on the door last winter and instead of sitting on our butts hoping the government would bail us out of the problem we put in new windows, insulated, installed wood and pellet stoves and drove our cars and trucks less....a lot less. Yes the installation of a secondary heat source can be expensive. Yes people living in the city and in apartments don't have those options though I gaurantee you that far more than 60% of Mainers live in a rural setting be it in a trailer, house or even condos where secondary heating sources can and do save them a PILE of money over the course of the winter. Experiences with these alternatives while not germaine to apartment dwellers are very interesting to the majority of people who visit this forum and help them to make informed decisions when retrofitting their homes. Sorry you have had bad experiences with auto forum know it all types. It happens. Some people have little patience for the inexperienced. If someone doesn't know a throttle body from a muffler it can be frustrating to try to walk them through a repair. It's not the surgeon's fault the only one available to perform the surgery on that colon is a 10 year old!

[reloop]

Originally Posted by Syngar99

i will summarize my own feelings on heating costs-

some people (not all) have EASY access to alternate heat sources that do not rely on oil or gas. For them I appreciate their situation. I also know for several thousands of dollars people could implement such systems into their own homes.
However for many people (particularly new home owners and new moves) adding a wood or pellet stove is a cost that can't be fit into the budget. not to mention some people do not or can not be invested in some inherent pains in the ass parts of wood stoves ( i grew up with a wood stove as my primary heat source, and so i am aware of many issues involved with starting, running and stocking it).
Does a wood stove help defray heating costs in the long term? perhaps, but it is not some cure-all for any discussion regarding heating costs.

some people have room on their properties to grow garden, bless them, some have access to aquifers and free water, bless them too. THESE forums are not really for the woodsman living in BFE maine so much as for what i call 60 percenters- that is the 60 percent of mainers that live within an hour of civilization and do not have paul bunyans heritage to help the survive.

if you are a survivalist type or just a plain ole frontiersman sort, then thats great and i aspire t be one mysef one day, but your insights are not necessarily germane to some 20 yr old kid trying to rent a place in downtown bar harbor (for instance) lol.

Ya know, I'm not trying to be a snot here, but how many threads have you read on this forum? I'm curious because I see many posters who ask about varying things like cost to heat, cost to purchase homes, whether or not they should look into alternative heat sources, what to expect with regard to the education of their children, best places to live by the ocean, what kind of jobs are available etc, etc.

Yes, I'm sure some are 20 - something and preparing to graduate from college, but from everything that I gather (maybe it's just me) I have spent the better part of the last 20 years listening to those who say this state is becoming a "brain drain" when kids graduate from college and head off to seek their fortunes out-of-state. Simply put, many people feel they have to - I see that you are currently looking for a job that pays better than 9 or 10 bucks an hour. On the flip-side of that, I'm seeing more and more retirees come here to roost for the quality of life.

Quote: However for many people (particularly new home owners and new moves) adding a wood or pellet stove is a cost that can't be fit into the budget. Unquote

Exactly why people need to come up here and research Maine during the winter in order to get a feel for what heating a house entails and/or rent before purchasing. Many real estate sites list how many gallons a home burned during the winter/cost of property tax etc. Common sense will dictate that you do the math - maybe a real estate agent can then direct you to a home that already has a pellet stove, or is more efficient.

As far as a 20 year old renting an apartment (at least in Central Maine anyway) I'll just say this:
Unless you have a profession which pays more than $10.00, be prepared to have roommates.

[starwalker]

Originally Posted by reloop

I have a friend who lives in Brewer. She says it would be cheaper to buy bottled water to water their lawn than it would be to run the garden hose.

Although the occasional septic tank pump is necessary where I am, I'm glad I don't have to deal with a water and sewer bill.

AMEN to that! Well and septic were two of the non-negotiables on our house-hunting list!

[Egobop]

Hello to all. I was actually thinking of starting a new thread but started reading this one and figured that to open another thread would be silly since I would basically be reading the same posts that are here already anyway. I have actually been starting to look into relocating from Long Island in New York. I am not sure of exactly where I would relocate to but obviously someplace where the cost of living is cheaper than here. This should not be hard since I believe Long Island, NY is one of the most expensive places there is to live in this country as far as taxes go. I do know that I do not want to go south since I lived in Florida for a short time when I was in kindergarten and then again when I was 16. I hated it due to the constant heat and humidity that prevails all year round.

I spent the majority of my years growing up in the five boroughs of NYC. I became a New York City police officer at 21 years of age. I bought a house here on Long Island when I was 26. After 14 years with the NYPD I had a heart attack at the ripe old age of 34. I had a stent put in that holds two arteries open. I am now retired from the NYPD with a disability pension and also receive Social Security disability benefits. As of right now this is fine and I am able to pay all of my bills and live here. I do know that with the way taxes and utility bills rise here on Long Island it will not be too many years before it gets tougher and tougher to live here. I would prefer to find someplace with a lower cost of living.

Maine is really the only New England state that I have not been to yet. I have actually always wanted to go there and plan on taking a trip there at some point this year. It seems to be that Maine is probably the most rural of the New England states. I know that there are cities of course but from looking at maps it seems to have the largest amount of rural area for the states size as compared to the others. Is this a valid assessment?

I also have a number of questions where answers would be greatly appreciated. I have many and will actually list them below:

1) Can anyone tell me what property taxes are in certain areas and what services you get? For example, I live in Yaphank which is in Suffolk County on Long Island. I have just under one acre of land and pay about $7,000 a year in taxes. This number will increase dramatically each year. When I first moved here around 11 years ago the taxes were closer to $2,000. We do not have sewer systems so I have a septic tank. We do have garbage pick up which is included in the taxes.

2) Are there many areas with a large amount of crime? Are there any areas that you can suggest to stay away from due to high crime?

3) Do the more rural areas have police departments or do they rely on state police?

4) Does anyone know the average response time for the police if there is a crime that occurs?

5) Is the majority of the fire department volunteer such as here on Long Island?

6) I have read a bit about power outages in the winter in this thread. Is this a common occurrence throughout an average winter? If so, what is the normal amount of time an outage lasts? A few hours, days, weeks?

7) Are there a lot of town rules regarding people's property? For example, where I live now you can only have one shed and it has to be a certain size; you are only allowed one unregistered vehicle in your driveway and it must be covered, you can't park vehicles on the grass next to your driveway, your fence can only be a certain height and you can't fence in the front of your property, etc.

If you do have too large of a shed (more than 8 X 8) or two sheds a neighbor can call the town and they will come and tell you to take it down and if you do not they will fine you. The same thing will happen for the other things I mentioned.

8) I have read people post that they pay around 17 or 18 cents per kwh for electric. I believe here it is around 25 cents. But on top of that we get fuel surcharges and other nonsense in our bills that raise the electric bill even further. Do you get a lot of extra charges in your electric bills as well?

9) I know all people are different but are people generally friendly towards others moving to the neighborhood from someplace such as NY or do they treat them as if they are an outsider invading their territory?

10) Again, I know that all people are different but is it common for neighbors to help each other out with stuff if they can or do they simply tend to keep to themselves? As an example, I work on cars and trucks and gladly fix my neighbors' vehicles free of charge with no problem. There is a guy that lives up the block that works on boilers and will gladly come to help out anyone with a problem with their boiler free of charge.

I have other questions but do not want to get too crazy and list fifty all at once so I will wait and see if these get answered before asking others. Thank you in advance to anyone whom responds to my post.

[forest beekeeper]

Originally Posted by Egobop

Hello to all. I was actually thinking of starting a new thread but started reading this one and figured that to open another thread would be silly since I would basically be reading the same posts that are here already anyway. I have actually been starting to look into relocating from Long Island in New York. I am not sure of exactly where I would relocate to but obviously someplace where the cost of living is cheaper than here. This should not be hard since I believe Long Island, NY is one of the most expensive places there is to live in this country as far as taxes go.

At one time, Maine had the honour of being the state with the highest 'tax burden'. We no longer have that honour, but some folks still have it set in their minds as if we did.

I do beleive that in general, by moving to Maine you will tend to pay far less in taxes, than if you had stayed in NY.

... I do know that I do not want to go south since I lived in Florida for a short time when I was in kindergarten and then again when I was 16. I hated it due to the constant heat and humidity that prevails all year round.

I agree.

... I spent the majority of my years growing up in the five boroughs of NYC. I became a New York City police officer at 21 years of age. I bought a house here on Long Island when I was 26. After 14 years with the
NYPD I had a heart attack at the ripe old age of 34. I had a stent put in that holds two arteries open. I am now retired from the NYPD with a disability pension and also receive Social Security disability benefits. As of right now this is fine and I am able to pay all of my bills and live here. I do know that with the way taxes and utility bills rise here on Long Island it will not be too many years before it gets tougher and tougher to live here. I would prefer to find someplace with a lower cost of living.

So, you are holding your head above water; and looking toward the future.

This is very smart.

... Maine is really the only New England state that I have not been to yet. I have actually always wanted to go there and plan on taking a trip
there at some point this year. It seems to be that Maine is probably the most rural of the New England states. I know that there are cities of course but from looking at maps it seems to have the largest amount of rural area for the states size as compared to the others. Is this a valid assessment?

You really do need to come and visit.

Maine is mostly rural. Maine is a fairly small isolated area that is urban, the rest being rural.

... I also have a number of questions where answers would be greatly appreciated. I have many and will actually list them below:

1) Can anyone tell me what property taxes are in certain areas and what services you get? For example, I live in Yaphank which is in Suffolk County on Long Island. I have just under one acre of land and pay about $7,000 a year in taxes. This number will increase dramatically each year. When I first moved here around 11 years ago the taxes were closer to $2,000. We do not have sewer systems so I have a septic tank. We do have garbage pick up which is included in the taxes.

In our township, with no tax-protective status on a piece of land, river frontage land will be charged about $900/acre, and land with no river access about $300/acre.

We have curbside garbage pickup each week. And a choice of 3 school districts which our children can attend.

... 2) Are there many areas with a large amount of crime? Are there any areas that you can suggest to stay away from due to high crime?

Not that I am aware of. No.

... 3) Do the more rural areas have police departments or do they rely on state police?

State, county, and game wardens.

... 4) Does anyone know the average response time for the police if there is a crime that occurs?

I do not know.

We have a deputy that drives through our town once a week, as does the warden. Otherwise I do not know.

... 5) Is the majority of the fire department volunteer such as here on Long Island?

Smaller towns have lower tax bases, so they will have all volunteer FDs.

As a town gets bigger so does it's tax base, so they will begin to have 1 or 2 paid firemen.

Really I think it depends on how much the citizens are willing to pay for.

... 6) I have read a bit about power outages in the winter in this thread. Is this a common occurrence throughout an average winter? If so, what is the normal amount of time an outage lasts? A few hours, days, weeks?

We have seen many outages of an hour, maybe 3 hours in length.

The longest we have seen so far was 18 hours.

... 7) Are there a lot of town rules regarding people's property? For example, where I live now you can only have one shed and it has to be a certain size; you are only allowed one unregistered vehicle in your driveway and it must be covered, you can't park vehicles on the grass next to your driveway, your fence can only be a certain height and you can't fence in the front of your property, etc. If you do have too large of a shed (more than 8 X 8) or two sheds a neighbor can call the town and they will come and tell you to take it down and if you do not they will fine you. The same thing will happen for the other things I mentioned.

It would take far more folks on public salary to dream up all that junk, than we have.

Then even more taxes to pay salaries for jokers to go around and enforce those kinds of laws.

Not to say that it would never happen in Maine somewhere. There are some towns in Maine, that cater to folks from Boston, and such.

... 8) I have read people post that they pay around 17 or 18 cents per kwh for electric. I believe here it is around 25 cents. But on top of that we get fuel surcharges and other nonsense in our bills that raise the electric bill even further. Do you get a lot of extra charges in your electric bills as well?

The list of extra fees, charges, surcharges, transfer fees, distribution fees, transmission fees, ... is a long list on my electric bill.

To sum it all up and to divide by the total billed to me, works out to about 16 cents/kwh. Which I have heard was the highest rate in the nation.

I was in a discussion about this topic, which led me to doing the math once, which is why I know that ours is around 16 cents/kwh [after they add in a list of extra fees, taxes and charges].

... 9) I know all people are different but are people generally friendly towards others moving to the neighborhood from someplace such as NY or do they treat them as if they are an outsider invading their territory?

We have been treated very friendly by most.

... 10) Again, I know that all people are different but is it common for neighbors to help each other out with stuff if they can or do they simply tend to keep to themselves? As an example, I work on cars and trucks and gladly fix my neighbors' vehicles free of charge with no problem. There is a guy that lives up the block that works on boilers and will gladly come to help out anyone with a problem with their boiler free of charge.

Here that is called 'paying forward'.

I sometimes plow other folks' driveways. And when I have slid off the pavement and needed a yank to get back up onto pavement, folks have been very eager to assist.

[Egobop]

Thank you very much for answering each of my questions "forest beekeeper". I can tell you right off the bat that here on Long Island we pay far more in electric bills. We are near 25 cents per kwh WITHOUT figuring in the extra fees here. Supposedly we are so high since they built a nuclear power plant in Shoreham her on Long Island. Once it was built they decided never to get it up and running and the the power authority simply raised the fees to cover all of the money they spent on the unused project.

As I have stated, I have been to every state in New England on numerous occasions with the exception of Maine. I do plan on taking a road trip there soon. I have seen many pictures and it looks like a beautiful place. Thank you again for answering all of the questions.

[Egobop]

The town laws such as I mentioned are a big deal for me since I have a hobby of working on cars from the 50's, 60's and 70's and definitely do not want to live somewhere that has all kinds of rules limiting what you can and can't do on your property. Of course, I am not looking to drop a bunch of rusted out cars in front of my house but one or two cars I am working on with no hassles would be nice. Also, if I feel the need for a larger shed or even two sheds I do not feel like living somewhere that does allow it. If I wanted all of these regulations on what I can or can't do I would just move to a gated community.

[Bydand]

Egobop, it would really help to know what size town/city, or rural area you want. Maine has a vast difference from one area to another in what is accepted and what is not. I'm sure if Forest wanted to work on his old Jeep naked in the rain, there wouldn't be much commotion, but other areas where there are HOA's and such they don't want a pick-up parked in sight (even though it probably cost more than their BMW's or Volvo.)

Also what part of the state are you looking at? Northern where the Potato reigns supreme, the Coast where the Lobster is king, to the mid-Maine where Lumber/pulp is master. I know where I lived (washburn, in Aroostook County) for a small town with 1 small grocery store and 1 small gas station they have a small Police department of a couple full time guys and a few reserves. Most small towns have their own police department up in "The County" but I have no idea about how it is downstate.

Taxes are a hotly debated issue on the Maine forum with those who have low taxes, and those who have very high taxes. I know personally when I moved from small town Maine to small town Michigan I cut my overall taxes in half even though I make more money and have a much more expensive house. It really depends on where you chose and it takes a LOT of digging to come up with an answer for each situation. Taxes can be hugely different for two identical houses and lots just a couple miles apart if they are in different towns/townships/unorganized territories.

[Acadianlion]

Originally Posted by Egobop

Hello to all. I was actually thinking of starting a new thread but started reading this one and figured that to open another thread would be silly since I would basically be reading the same posts that are here already anyway. I have actually been starting to look into relocating from Long Island in New York. I am not sure of exactly where I would relocate to but obviously someplace where the cost of living is cheaper than here. This should not be hard since I believe Long Island, NY is one of the most expensive places there is to live in this country as far as taxes go. I do know that I do not want to go south since I lived in Florida for a short time when I was in kindergarten and then again when I was 16. I hated it due to the constant heat and humidity that prevails all year round.


Maine is really the only New England state that I have not been to yet. I have actually always wanted to go there and plan on taking a trip there at some point this year. It seems to be that Maine is probably the most rural of the New England states. I know that there are cities of course but from looking at maps it seems to have the largest amount of rural area for the states size as compared to the others. Is this a valid assessment?

Pretty much so. Maine has more area than all other New England states combined, and a population of only 1.3 million people. The greatest population density is in the southwest corner, which includes Cumberland and York Counties, and especially the greater Portland area.

I also have a number of questions where answers would be greatly appreciated. I have many and will actually list them below:

1) Can anyone tell me what property taxes are in certain areas and what services you get? For example, I live in Yaphank which is in Suffolk County on Long Island. I have just under one acre of land and pay about $7,000 a year in taxes. This number will increase dramatically each year. When I first moved here around 11 years ago the taxes were closer to $2,000. We do not have sewer systems so I have a septic tank. We do have garbage pick up which is included in the taxes.

This will vary a lot and depend on what part of Maine that you live in. If you live on the ocean or on a lake and have actual frontage on the water, your taxes will be about what you pay now. I have 200 feet of frontage on a salt water bay, and my taxes are almost $6000 per year (ONE acre). We have NO municipal services here aside from an elementary school.

2) Are there many areas with a large amount of crime? Are there any areas that you can suggest to stay away from due to high crime?

We have the same sorts of crime that any other place in the US has. But we have far less of it. No place in Maine can be considered "high crime" with a straight face.

3) Do the more rural areas have police departments or do they rely on state police? Most areas rely on the County Sheriff, the State Police and the occasional game warden. Many larger towns have a regular police department, but many do not.

4) Does anyone know the average response time for the police if there is a crime that occurs? It depends on where you are in Maine. If you are in the city of Portland, response time will be in minutes. If you are in a rural area it can take an hour or more, depending on the location of the nearest county deputy, state police trooper, or (perhaps) game warden. I live about five miles outside of the city of Ellsworth, and have had to call a police officer on a couple of occasions over the 20 years that I have been here. Response time has been between fifteen minutes and an hour and a half.

5) Is the majority of the fire department volunteer such as here on Long Island? Yes. The majority of fire departments are staffed at least in part by part timers. Major cities like Portland, Lewiston, Bangor, have larger full time forces.

6) I have read a bit about power outages in the winter in this thread. Is this a common occurrence throughout an average winter? If so, what is the normal amount of time an outage lasts? A few hours, days, weeks?We have had power outages here that have lasted for several days. That is because part of the line that services this neighborhood winds through a wooded track, off road, and the power company fixes it as they get around to fixing these lines. I have also experienced NO power outages when others in maine have been dark for hours and days. Sometimes we have major storms with snow, ice and high winds and power is not interrupted. If someone was moving to rural Maine who required a constant source of electricity for life support, I would recommend a sizeable battery back up system, but generally power outages aren't really a regular occurrence.

7) Are there a lot of town rules regarding people's property? For example, where I live now you can only have one shed and it has to be a certain size; you are only allowed one unregistered vehicle in your driveway and it must be covered, you can't park vehicles on the grass next to your driveway, your fence can only be a certain height and you can't fence in the front of your property, etc.

If you do have too large of a shed (more than 8 X 8) or two sheds a neighbor can call the town and they will come and tell you to take it down and if you do not they will fine you. The same thing will happen for the other things I mentioned.

You are talking about zoning ordinances. The presence of zoning ordinances varies a great deal by locality. In the more urban areas there are generally more regulations. The further away from city center you get the more relaxed the ordinances as a general rule. But not ENTIRELY. I know of several towns that have NO zoning of any kind whatsoever. I know of others that are pretty tightly regulated. I also know of a couple of towns that out to have some regulations or the towns will be overrun with out of control and unregulated growth that will destroy the nature of the town entirely.

8) I have read people post that they pay around 17 or 18 cents per kwh for electric. I believe here it is around 25 cents. But on top of that we get fuel surcharges and other nonsense in our bills that raise the electric bill even further. Do you get a lot of extra charges in your electric bills as well?
I think it is important to make a strict distinction between the elecric rate and the COST of electricity. Maine's electric rates are extremely high and harsh depending on wha your use is. One of the reasons that Maine has lost so much business and industry is the cost of electricity. Now, for the average homeowner, the cost of electericity is around 15 cents per kilowatt hour. There are sources on the web that list the cost of electricity from state to state, and according to them, New York electric rates are about 3 cents or so higher than Maine's.

9) I know all people are different but are people generally friendly towards others moving to the neighborhood from someplace such as NY or do they treat them as if they are an outsider invading their territory?

This will depend on several things. Generally Mainers are a welcoming lot. If you live in an area full of people from other places, you will eencounter the same kinds of reaction tha tyou expect to get whereever they came from. But if you move into a rural Maine town, you will find that people will be friendly and welcoming, so long as you dont arrive here with the attitude that EVERYTHING back where you came from was SOOOOOOOOO great, and we should change everything here to be like that. Mainers generally don't feel that they need help from people from ......(fill in your own choice of state or place of origin).

10) Again, I know that all people are different but is it common for neighbors to help each other out with stuff if they can or do they simply tend to keep to themselves? As an example, I work on cars and trucks and gladly fix my neighbors' vehicles free of charge with no problem. There is a guy that lives up the block that works on boilers and will gladly come to help out anyone with a problem with their boiler free of charge.

As a simple statement, I would say that this is the essence of Maine.

I have other questions but do not want to get too crazy and list fifty all at once so I will wait and see if these get answered before asking others. Thank you in advance to anyone whom responds to my post.

By all means come up and visit. Plan on taking quite a long time because Maine has many, many variations and not one visit to one locale will tell you what is and is not here.

[Egobop]

Thank you to all that are answering my questions. It is greatly appreciated. I would never move to an area thinking that where I moved from was much better so I do not see that as being a problem. I also do not try and get into the business of others but am always willing to help people out however much I can without looking for anything in return.

I am not sure of just how rural I would be willing to look into but I am definitely not looking to be in a city environment or even a suburban community just outside of a city. I would definitely look for a more rural area but not to the point that I am the only house for miles around either.

I would not mind living near the water but I would also not want to pay super high taxes for the privilege of doing so. That being said, I would not mind living far from the water. If anyone can give any specific names of areas that may be worth looking into that would be somewhat rural, nice and easy on the taxes would be greatly appreciated.

Again, I thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions.