Maine towns with great schools? (Brunswick, Topsham: high crime, vacation home, transfer)

[CTlibrarian]

My husband and I currently live in CT. We own a vacation home on Swan's Island, off the coast of MDI.... currently about an 8-hour drive for us. We are considering moving to Maine to be closer to our cottage, not to mention seeking a slower, kinder, less expensive life. We have a 1 y.o. child so schools are our #1 criterion.

Thanks in advance for any info and advice!

[forest beekeeper]

We were living in Norwich Ct for a few years, immediately after my retirement and our return stateside. We were not at all happy with the K-12 schools there. We had foster-children in elementary school, middle school; and our own children in high school and Three Rivers Community college. Our dealings with Three Rivers was fine, we saw no problems there.

Since moving to Maine, we no longer have foster-chidlren and our eldest is on his own now. We only have one child at home. He attends high school in Old Town.

We are very happy with OTHS. It is a smaller school, with better student to teacher ratios. Our son needs a little extra attention with homework and testing; and OTHS provides that. Their Special Ed teacher stays on his daily schedule; she monitors his homework, and protors his tests when he needs more time.

[maineboy51]

I know Swan's Island well and 'way back when, I graduated from MDI High School. I think you would have a hard time finding a BAD school in Maine. While many complain about Maine's high taxes (I've done my own share of griping, in fact) the truth is that the public schools are so good that private schools are really quite optional.

I think you'll find that teacher pay is higher in the southern part of Maine. Whether or not that actually translates to BETTER teachers, though, is debatable. I will just say that we've been very happy with the quality of the public education our son received. Plenty of kids all over Maine score in the top percentiles of the SAT's.

[Unhappycamper]

The only "not so good" school I can think of is Lisbon High School in Lisbon Falls.

[HonestAnswer]

Originally Posted by Unhappycamper

The only "not so good" school I can think of is Lisbon High School in Lisbon Falls.

Unhappycamper, that statement is more telling about you than it is about Lisbon.

I've read your posts here. So you live in Durham, and know some students at LHS. You've heard that there is a large drug influence there.

Based on my firsthand experiences at LHS -- and yes, I'm biased -- you're off-base. Sure, you can find students at LHS who use drugs. You can find Brunswick Dragons who use drugs. You can find parents of Brunswick Dragons who use drugs. That's a pretty broad brush to be painting an entire town's school system with. Your proposition, if accepted, gives rise to the logical consequence that we should all avoid all towns and all people, because some folks everywhere use drugs.

I wouldn't generally post a response here that responds so pointedly at an individual's post, but reading this post this morning really got to me. These forums are meant as a place to share information, and you are welcome to do that -- but spreading targeted rumors like that just doesn't strike me as right.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by HonestAnswer

Unhappycamper, that statement is more telling about you than it is about Lisbon.

I've read your posts here. So you live in Durham, and know some students at LHS. You've heard that there is a large drug influence there.

Based on my firsthand experiences at LHS -- and yes, I'm biased -- you're off-base. Sure, you can find students at LHS who use drugs. You can find Brunswick Dragons who use drugs. You can find parents of Brunswick Dragons who use drugs. That's a pretty broad brush to be painting an entire town's school system with. Your proposition, if accepted, gives rise to the logical consequence that we should all avoid all towns and all people, because some folks everywhere use drugs.

I wouldn't generally post a response here that responds so pointedly at an individual's post, but reading this post this morning really got to me. These forums are meant as a place to share information, and you are welcome to do that -- but spreading targeted rumors like that just doesn't strike me as right.

I have no firsthand experience with the schools in the area, but since we're looking to move in the Brunswick area, I've been looking at info on all the local schools. I must say how struck I was at the test scores at Lisbon High. On average, they are MUCH lower than even nearby schools like Topsham, Brunswick, etc.

Why is that do you think? Is the school just under-funded? Are there administrative problems? Drugs? High crime? What's up?

[Unhappycamper]

If That comment came off as offensive I apologize, I meant no harm. I'm am just throwing out what I have heard over personal expierence. Does that mean it is a bad school? well, its all of what you make of the school. I am not saying you would go there and come out with a burger king uniform on. I am sure most students did fine there and went on to be successful and so forth. If you discipline yourself and stay focused on what you want and avoid negative influences you should be fine. Thats the way it is with every school. But as Mark said, the numbers do show lower testing scores.Why? I don't know and I am not saying I have the answers but look at the numbers. Also I know kids who went to Lisbon and transfered to other schools because "It was just really a good school". But as I said earlier, the school is what you make of it, as is any school. Its about self discipline. Also I should add in my original comment that i described it as "not so good", I did not say bad.

As for Brunswick High, I am not saying it was a utopia where the drugs are non existant the students flood to the library to endulge in literature. Thats just unrealistic. Yeah, there is drug use at Brunswick, its a high school full of teenagers. its a high school with high school problems.

[HonestAnswer]

I'm glad we can discuss this issue civilly -- that wouldn't happen in some other forums! Mark and UnhappyC, you both raise a very good question: what's going on with LHS's test scores?

So that we can have a logical analysis, let's take a look at LHS's test scores:
Student Test Data

and compare them to Brunswick High's:
Student Test Data

Reading:
LHS: 11% Does not meet the Standard
BHS: 7% Does not
LHS: 57% Partially meets the Standard
BHS: 45% Partially meets
LHS: 32% Meets the Standard
BHS: 46% Meets

Math:
LHS: 39% Does not meet
BHS: 28% Does not
LHS: 36% Partially meets
BHS: 45% Partially meets
LHS: 22% Meets
BHS: 24% Meets
LHS: 3% Exceeds
BHS: 3% Exceeds

Science:
LHS: 30% Does not meet
BHS: 28% does not
LHS: 55% Partially meets
BHS: 58% partially meets
LHS: 15% Meets
BHS: 14% meets

I haven't done a statistical analysis to determine whether the variability between data sets for LHS and BHS is statistically significant, but just eyeballing it, LHS's numbers are generally close to BHS's numbers in these categories... and in fact LHS has a higher percentage of students in certain "partially" or "wholly meets" categories.

Even assuming that LHS's scores are worse than BHS's in a way that is statistically significant, what would explain that? A visit to both schools could shed some light on that. Who here has heard that commercial on the radio that urges, "Want to improve your students' test scores? Call an architect!" BHS is a modern facility, built in approximately 1996. Its design is so progressive that it was the subject of an article in School Planning and Management:
Designed for learning: inside and out. (Brunswick High School, Brunswick, Maine) School Planning and Management - Find Articles
"Designed for learning: inside and out. (Brunswick High School, Brunswick, Maine)", School Planning and Management, March, 1996 by Sutton, Rodney K.

LHS, by contrast, is an aging building with a dingy and substandard physical plant. The school is on the state funding list for a rebuild/renovation, but until that happens, the learning environment is hampered by the building itself. LHS's students, staff, and faculty achieve all their results in spite of their physical facilities.

Occam's Razor suggests we should look at the obvious differences between the schools before looking at the less-easily quantified. Just as we were taught in Sunday School that "the church is not a building; the church is the people", so too is a school composed of many individual people. The kids at LHS are good people. Saying that the LHS physical plant is grim is not an excuse, but it may be at least a partial explanation.

[forest beekeeper]

Originally Posted by Mark S.

I have no firsthand experience with the schools in the area, but since we're looking to move in the Brunswick area, I've been looking at info on all the local schools. I must say how struck I was at the test scores at Lisbon High. On average, they are MUCH lower than even nearby schools like Topsham, Brunswick, etc.

Why is that do you think? Is the school just under-funded? Are there administrative problems? Drugs? High crime? What's up?

I have seen studies previously where they compared funding levels to quality of the education.

So far there has been a consistent trend to show absolutely that funding has no connection in any manner with quality of education in our system.

And in terms of college entrance, there is a documented connection. A reverse correlation. Homeschooled children who spend $150 to $300 per grade-level on education, consistently score higher and are admitted into colleges faster than public-funded students who have been wasting on average $8500 per grade-level.

But go ahead and try to dump more money into a failing system. It will always suck-up the extra funding.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

I have seen studies previously where they compared funding levels to quality of the education.

So far there has been a consistent trend to show absolutely that funding has no connection in any manner with quality of education in our system.

And in terms of college entrance, there is a documented connection. A reverse correlation. Homeschooled children who spend $150 to $300 per grade-level on education, consistently score higher and are admitted into colleges faster than public-funded students who have been wasting on average $8500 per grade-level.

But go ahead and try to dump more money into a failing system. It will always suck-up the extra funding.

You ought to read Wendell Berry. I think you'd like him.