U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maryland
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-13-2011, 10:52 PM
 
25 posts, read 46,753 times
Reputation: 14

Advertisements

It's not personal. You seem to misunderstand my criticism. Which is understandable because I didn't give too much info. My poke was more intended as a criticism of the polar terms, rather than of content. Or more exactly, the lowbrowed rhetoric associated with those that stoop to using them (Fox and MSNBC are 2 great and depressing examples).

You and CelticViking (we don't need to mention that a CelticViking makes as much sense as a PersianAfrican in a conversation about being "uneducated") seem to do the same thing. When you use polarizing rhetoric like, "conservative" and "liberal" your goal is to segregate and alienate people not holding your view. In your "debate" you are not arguing the merit of your view, but rather the lower status of the group you associate with the opposing view. Appeals that use those tools are either by someone who is uneducated or intended for those who are uneducated. But wait, those liberals made me write this, you must be right. Damn liberals. We need a good conservative to save us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-13-2011, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,628,937 times
Reputation: 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwclassic View Post
It's not personal. You seem to misunderstand my criticism. Which is understandable because I didn't give too much info. My poke was more intended as a criticism of the polar terms, rather than of content. Or more exactly, the lowbrowed rhetoric associated with those that stoop to using them (Fox and MSNBC are 2 great and depressing examples).

You and CelticViking (we don't need to mention that a CelticViking makes as much sense as a PersianAfrican in a conversation about being "uneducated") seem to do the same thing. When you use polarizing rhetoric like, "conservative" and "liberal" your goal is to segregate and alienate people not holding your view. In your "debate" you are not arguing the merit of your view, but rather the lower status of the group you associate with the opposing view. Appeals that use those tools are either by someone who is uneducated or intended for those who are uneducated. But wait, those liberals made me write this, you must be right. Damn liberals. We need a good conservative to save us.
Hey WV-dub welcome back to the coversation. To remind you of what happened, our mutual friend, CelticViking was expressing his political point about the state of Maryland and was insulted for a spelling error. You, a 3rd party with no interest in the conversation, jumped in and made a derogatory conjecture about CelticViking's educational background, which happened to be untrue.

You are a nice writer. All that wonderful stuff about "polarlizing rhetoric" and assignment of lower status to people by using labels makes you sound awfully educated. But our discussion is about you coming in as a third party and hitting below the belt without provocation.

If you want to debate politicals, by all means, have at it. But most of us out here in the rural parts of the state think the O'Malley administration has placed us last on the priority list and is putting us a competative disadvantage with out neighboring states, who are many and close by. And I don't think that is a "liberal" or "conservative" point of view.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2011, 08:03 AM
 
25 posts, read 46,753 times
Reputation: 14
I just made a brief comment about a persuasion tool that I see used way too often- a tool reserved for persuading stupid people. Not trying to pis anyone off, well at least not directly. Can I play too? Btw, I live in a rural part of the state too and in some ways you are right about state priority. How can it be avoided though? The vast majority of people in MD live in B-more and in a democracy that gives them more power than us because there are so many more of them. It isn't fair or right, but it is majority rule.

I hear the state competition argument a lot lately. In some ways I see it, in others I don't. WV is low population, not much they can compete with MD about. PA is high population, but doesn't have the resources to compete with most MD businesses. VA can compete, but because of DC only a few small parts of MD and VA connect. I won't even bother to mention DE, no one lives there.

I guess my point is, I see the anti tax and anti O'Malley arguments from a moral or value based perspective, but I just can't see them from a practical prospective. The new alcohol tax for example, morally I see the problem people have with it. The state is taxing us to help people in B-more and PG county. But practically, it makes sense. I'm not arguing for it, mind you, I'm against it, but I can see the point of view of the people who want it. They aren't simply dumbass liberals. Reducing their point of view to simple "liberal talk" is unfair and unjust. That is a major reason people call conservatives uneducated or ignorant. Liberal pundits do it too, but the problem is much more rampant in conservative media circles. Do I really need to say it?- Rush, Beck, etc. Personally, I think anyone who completely identifies with either group isn't thinking for themselves too much.

Last edited by vwclassic; 05-14-2011 at 08:19 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2011, 08:14 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 10,736,595 times
Reputation: 3092
I remember this thread. Celtic Viking and I each displayed a bit of ignorance. We've played nice ever since.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2011, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,628,937 times
Reputation: 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwclassic View Post
I just made a brief comment about a persuasion tool that I see used way too often- a tool reserved for persuading stupid people. Not trying to pis anyone off, well at least not directly. Can I play too? Btw, I live in a rural part of the state too and in some ways you are right about state priority. How can it be avoided though? The vast majority of people in MD live in B-more and in a democracy that gives them more power than us because there are so many more of them. It isn't fair or right, but it is majority rule.

I hear the state competition argument a lot lately. In some ways I see it, in others I don't. WV is low population, not much they can compete with MD about. PA is high population, but doesn't have the resources to compete with most MD businesses. VA can compete, but because of DC only a few small parts of MD and VA connect. I won't even bother to mention DE, no one lives there.

I guess my point is, I see the anti tax and anti O'Malley arguments from a moral or value based perspective, but I just can't see them from a practical prospective. The new alcohol tax for example, morally I see the problem people have with it. The state is taxing us to help people in B-more and PG county. But practically, it makes sense. I'm not arguing for it, mind you, I'm against it, but I can see the point of view of the people who want it. They aren't simply dumbass liberals. Reducing their point of view to simple "liberal talk" is unfair and unjust. That is a major reason people call conservatives uneducated or ignorant. Liberal pundits do it too, but the problem is much more rampant in conservative media circles. Do I really need to say it?- Rush, Beck, etc. Personally, I think anyone who completely identifies with either group isn't thinking for themselves too much.
Western Maryland is smack dab up against WV. I can see the state from my window. There are liquor and smoke stores right over the river from our city of 20k where many local businesses are trying to get by. The WV stores make a killing everytime Maryland raises a vice tax. One store in Ridgeley, WV put up a sign actually saying "Thank you Governor O'Malley for our increase in business!" I saw it. The raises in vice taxes are crushing to us out here. Shame there aren't more of "us" because majority does rule and the minority gets crapped on or ignored.

As for helping PG and Baltimore, I couldn't care less. We are poor too (much poorer than PG by the stats,) our schools are older and in worse shape then their's are. I have no desire for our community to suffer so theirs can benefit. O'Malley is a dirty politician who helps his own. If his "own" are self-IDing liberals, when then there is a name to go with our pain. What would you prefer we call them, "Those of a certain political persuasion that do no agree with others on political issues, especially concerning the raising of taxation for the benefit of a few select areas that vote heavily Democratic?" Semantics, all semantics in what we call each other. Those of us that are educated know what the terms mean, don't use them as "catch-all labels," but instead us them the way all language speaking human beings do, to explain our point of view.

Last edited by westsideboy; 05-14-2011 at 01:30 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2011, 02:33 PM
 
829 posts, read 2,507,361 times
Reputation: 357
Hey Vw...You have not really studied the celts or the vikings have you? Believe it or not, my ancestor back ground is part of a group of scandinavians who settled off the coast of Scotland...and guess what? They were more then likely Viking settlers. Sorry to break that news to you being that I am one of those un-informed idiot Conservatives. Nice try though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2011, 05:59 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 1,850,546 times
Reputation: 1423
VWclassic does make an interesting point about the concept of "CelticViking". Weren't the Celts among the primary victims of Viking raids? I think CelticViking needs to continue to use this name as a testament to how if these two groups can make peaceful bedfellows, any two groups can get along! Perhaps that could lower some of the animosity in this discussion board.


In an attempt to bring back a civil discussion, O'Malley's politics certainly are left up to debate. That is the great thing about a democracy. However, please let's dispense with the liberal vs. conservative farce. I love the comparisons between the "ultra-liberal" Maryland and its more sensible "conservative" neighbor to the south, Virginia. In terms of alcohol sales, only the state of Virginia and their Alcoholic Beverage Commission (ABC) has the right to license and dispense (sell) hard liquor. That is definitely more socialist than anything Maryland has going on.

In terms of cigarette tax, yes Maryland's tax is much higher than it's neighboring states but the tax is set at $2.00--Alaska, Arizona, Maine, and Maryland have all set it at this rate. I don't see this as any partisan decision at all. It just seems as if some states want to set a standard rate. If West Virginia wants to set its alcohol and cigarette tax rates low to encourage people to drive out of their way to get these cheaper commodities, more power to them. West Virginians certainly have to drive out of their way, expending even more time and gas, to get better paying jobs in Maryland. And being that West Virginia has higher gas prices than Maryland (about 9 cents more per gallon), I just see that whole relationship of driving back and forth in search of cheaper commodities as a wash at best.

Accordingly, Roscoe Bartlett has been the Republican representative of Maryland's 6th congressional district since 1993. Maryland as a state has had a Republican governor (Ehrlich) during this tenure. The sixth district is comprised of the counties of Carroll, Frederick, Washington, Allegheny, and Garrett as well as a small part of Montgomery. Despite these areas being a vast majority Republican, irrespective of party affiliation Prince George's County has a larger population than the entire 6th district COMBINED. I think that it only makes sense that more state resources would be allocated to Prince George's County. Baltimore City of course is now smaller than the 6th district in terms of population due to continued losses since the 1950s but we are talking about the only major city in the state (90 square miles) versus the western third of Maryland. I don't think it is rational to say O'Malley is "ignoring" Western Maryland.

Marylanders are free to vote anyone of their choosing regardless of political party, majority rules in a democracy. But look at the past two Republican governors. Spiro T. Agnew was arguably one of the most corrupt politicians in modern American history. Perhaps Marylanders didn't vote for a Republican governor for two generations out of sheer embarrasment for being the state that produced the last American Vice-President to resign. Ehrlich? A "big industry" puppet who vetoed the "Wal-Mart bill" despite Wal-Mart being among the top ten largest employers in Garrett, Washington, and Carroll Counties (and no slouch in Frederick County at 12th). Fortunately the General Assembly was able to override the veto because when Wal-Mart doesn't pay any health benefits whatsoever, the state of Maryland's taxpayers pick up the tab. I don't see Maryland as having a "liberal" culture, just wisely selective in its statewide and national candidate selection, of which the majority come from the Democratic Party.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2011, 06:52 PM
 
829 posts, read 2,507,361 times
Reputation: 357
Oh yes there were plenty of battles between the two...However my name is merely ancestor based.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-19-2011, 04:47 AM
 
2,893 posts, read 3,402,971 times
Reputation: 4071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post

Spiro T. Agnew w
Agnew was the more liberal of the two candidates when he ran for Gov against Democrat George P. Mahoney. The Mahoney campaign had billboards all over the Baltimore area proclaiming "Your home is your castle -- defend it." This was during the height of the Civil Rights movement. IIRC, Mahoney was a rich contractor from Baltimore (?), and a perennial Democrat candidate for whatever office in those days.

This is just a historical curiosity to me -- I am not trying to convey any political implications one way or the other by my post. Also, if my story is not entirely accurate, I hope someone will correct it (just working from my memory!). Thanks -- HF

Last edited by Hamish Forbes; 05-19-2011 at 05:00 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-19-2011, 06:10 AM
 
1,009 posts, read 1,850,546 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Agnew was the more liberal of the two candidates when he ran for Gov against Democrat George P. Mahoney. The Mahoney campaign had billboards all over the Baltimore area proclaiming "Your home is your castle -- defend it." This was during the height of the Civil Rights movement. IIRC, Mahoney was a rich contractor from Baltimore (?), and a perennial Democrat candidate for whatever office in those days.

This is just a historical curiosity to me -- I am not trying to convey any political implications one way or the other by my post. Also, if my story is not entirely accurate, I hope someone will correct it (just working from my memory!). Thanks -- HF
I wouldn't dispute your characterization of Mahoney. However, I wouldn't exactly call Agnew more "liberal". Spiro can credit his meteoritic "rise" (meteors are noted for falling however ) to being a political moderate. He even actually started out as a Democrat, but keep in mind prior to the FDR era it was the Democratic Party that was conservative (especially in the the South). The Civil Rights Era was the period when Dixiecrats began to abandon their party for Republicans. A political platform based almost solely on segregation was fine for the Deep South but wouldn't fly in the politically and socially moderate Maryland of the 1960s.

Being a governor from a Southern state but a political moderate certainly made Agnew an attractive running mate for Nixon but definitely did not make him less corrupt. Once again, this is not a partisan issue; Agnew's successor to the position of Baltimore County Executive, Dale Anderson, was probably more corrupt and was a Democrat. However it was Agnew that continued to be corrupt when he was Governor of Maryland and became part and parcel of the national embarrasment that was the Nixon Administration. And just think, those two didn't even get along!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maryland
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top