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Old 05-21-2011, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,632,343 times
Reputation: 2790

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You know not of what you speak.

Terrapin Run was designed out as 20 year project, starting with house septic systems and wells, then working up to a residential capacity which could sustain and justify construction of the sewage treatment/fresh water source from the Potomac. The eastern part of our county needs this infrastructure to grow. You can't even put a McDonald's at those exits between Sideling and Flintstone because of the water/sewer situation. We had a private business man willing to be part of a public/private partnership to make this happen and the state did everything in its power to make sure it didn't happen.

The Little Orleans parents are almost all commuters to Washington County. I can see their point about wanting their jobs and kids school to face eastward, but then why live in Allegany County? I don't want to kick them out of their closest school, but if the cost of our county doing them a favor by letting them attend out-of-county school districts is too much to bear, then what other choices does the BOE have?

I-70 was diverted north because of the sheer effort needed to breach Sideling Hill between the Potomac and the Mason-Dixon. The engineers shot the road straight north about 15-20 miles to find a passable place to build a tunnel, then later an incline over a low spot. The population of Cumberland at the time had nothing to do with this choice. We were sadly collateral damage because of our geography (to hit on one of my main themes)

As for commuting 65 miles to Hagerstown, Winchester, or Morgantown over about 1/2 dozen mountain passes or more in all 4 seasons, it isn't something that is pleasant or something that people wish to do. Transplants choose to live closer to their job (like in Berkeley or Franklin Co. in your case) Remember, Hagerstown to Rockville would be a shorter commute, with less weather issues than Cumberland to Hagerstown.

As for miners, they died doing their job, just like two of my great-great grandparents did back in the deep mines. Mining is in our blood here, it was the economic foundation of the county for generations, and although the industry is shrinking, the link between it and our heritage isn't. You can blab about safety all you want, but those miners were our own and are dead now, and the leader of our "One Maryland" was an 1/2 hour away when it was going down. Real leaders show up to take charge at best, get a photo-op at worst, but regardless, show their constituates that they understand and care about us. Again, you seem more interested in some pendantic point about work place safety, evil corporations, and false patriotism (not sure where that came from) than the fact that men were buried in a horrible accident that shook Western Maryland to its core and "our" Governor pointed his car east and headed home.

It is my opinion that O'Malley wouldn't build I-68 today. That opinion is backed by what I know about how he views and treats us. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am wrong that Fort Hill isn't a "worse" school than Hancock. That is subjective. That's right, I remember you were all over Fort Hill in some other thread too about the "white supremacy" gangs or what ever fanciful theory you imagined was taking place there. And yeah, we don't have the money as a county to offer tax breaks like you and Montgomery. Congratulations on your success, geography is destiny as they say.

Lastly, you are one of my favorite posters, knowledgeable, a good debater, you don't take cheap shots, etc. But you are way out on a limb trying to reconcile the state's policies with Allegany County's local issues. You can research on the web to see what the official press release story is. You can propose that we should be grateful to be on welfare from the state due to the problems they create for us. You can suggest we drive 65 miles in snowstorms over mountains to find work, whatever. Just, don't tell me the state is doing right by us, I live here, I know better.

Last edited by westsideboy; 05-21-2011 at 04:26 PM..
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:17 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 1,851,210 times
Reputation: 1423
I'm sorry you don't believe I know not of what I speak. After reading your posts I am still not seeing any of my assertions refuted, just a difference of opinion of how resource allocation should be applied and the responsibilities of a state bureaucracy. I still think public/private partnerships utilizing pre-existing infrastructure in Baltimore is a better investment then slaughtering virgin landscapes in Western Maryland.

I'm not attempting to convince Cumberlanders to commute to Washington County and I simply do not believe the western two counties are being ignored because they vote Republican while the next three counties in (Washington, Frederick, and Carroll) also vote Republican but everything is hunkie dory. To bring this to a close (u can have whatever last word you want, I just don't want to be accussed of hijacking a forum so you can continue your personal slights on me without my presence because, yes of course it is my theory that kids started running around in Cumberland with Confederate flags after a racially marred incident--yep I just pulled that one out my arse), the 6th congressional district was formed for a reason. It is not gerrymandered like the districts you see in Montgomery and Prince Georges. I think we all have more similarities as Marylanders out west than you give credit for. In terms of poverty in our district, I find it a curiosity that Roscoe Bartlett is the wealthiest delegate sent to Congress from Maryland. Way to represent a poor district; funny how fiscally responsible conservatives are easily confused by figures. Talk about voting against your own interests; Roscoe Bartlett is truly a man of the people.

Last edited by Steelers10; 05-21-2011 at 05:26 PM..
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,632,343 times
Reputation: 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
I'm sorry you don't believe I know not of what I speak. After reading your posts I am still not seeing any of my assertions refuted, just a difference of opinion of how resource allocation should be applied and the responsibilities of a state bureaucracy. I still think public/private partnerships utilizing pre-existing infrastructure in Baltimore is a better investment then slaughtering virgin landscapes in Western Maryland.

I'm not attempting to convince Cumberlanders to commute to Washington County and I simply do not believe the western two counties are being ignored because they vote Republican while the next three counties in (Washington, Frederick, and Carroll) also vote Republican but everything is hunkie dory. To bring this to a close (u can have whatever last word you want, I just don't want to be accussed of hijacking a forum so you can continue your personal slights on me without my presence because, yes of course it is my theory that kids started running around in Cumberland with Confederate flags after a racially marred incident--yep I just pulled that one out my arse), the 6th congressional district was formed for a reason. It is not gerrymandered like the districts you see in Montgomery and Prince Georges. I think we all have more similarities as Marylanders out west than you give credit for. In terms of poverty in our district, I find it a curiosity that Roscoe Bartlett is the wealthiest delegate sent to Congress from Maryland. Way to represent a poor district; funny how fiscally responsible conservatives are easily confused by figures. Talk about voting against your own interests; Roscoe Bartlett is truly a man of the people.
Last word? If I must

Sorry about the bringing the Fort Hill thing up again. I don't dispute the incident occurred, what we disagreed on was how the reaction was interpreted differently downstate than it was up here.

Carroll, Washington, and Frederick are your own beast. They have an economic engine that is based on the commuting patterns you mentioned earlier + their own local businesses and agricultural base. Everything is honky-dory there. I don't think Annapolis could stop the growth and prosperity there even if they tried.

I don't believe they actively try to screw us in Allegany and Garrett, the power structure in Annapolis just doesn't understand us on a community level, and doesn't mind it when our interests are collateral damage to their own agendas. Probably not personal with most of them, just politics. O'Malley is a different story. I believe he is a big-city politician from a partisan political machine that knows how to play favorites and punish dissenters. His actions can be my only evidence of this.

As for Roscoe. I saw him debate once back in 1996, he was horrible, completely uninformed on the issues and no personal appeal. I have never voted for him. He has dropped the ball on a few Allegany County issues in Washington, but I digress. He does pull in alot of votes district wide. He is of the right party, representing the GOP parts of the state that fit fairly uniformly together along the Mason-Dixon. It is a big tent GOP though, farmers and soliders, exurbanites and Hillbillies. What 60% of the voting populous sees in him is a mystery to me.

Again, I hope I didn't personally insult you, but looking back at my posts, I probably did. You deserve better than that. It is just that I know alot of information on the Terrapin Run plans that don't make the headlines. I am not of the mood now to try and research the engineering diagrams from the 1950s when I-70 was built, but I am nearly certain the path was chosen based on the geography of the mountains, not because of a purposeful decision to leave out, what was at the time the 2nd or 3rd largest city in the state (Cumberland.) And lastly, whenever there is a mine disaster anywhere in the world it is front page news and the water cooler obession out here. The coal mining never leaves your blood (or your lungs) and that is part of what makes "Western Maryland" unique.

That is why O'Malley's snub is so aggregious to us. It wasn't someone who fell off a ladder, or was sucked up in a paper rolling machine, it was a mining accident in our little mining part of the state and our governor didn't ride 30 minutes to see the tragedy in person.

My humble apologies again if I offended.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
388 posts, read 660,139 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Allegany County had our FIRST high school built since WWII 3 years ago. Our other two highs schools were built in 1923 and 1940-something.
As an Allegany County resident, I wholly agree with everything you said, except for this ^. This is incorrect (although not far off). Valley High opened its doors in the fall of 1953 when Central and Barton combined. I'm almost positive Bruce was also built in that general timeframe. It replaced the old Bruce building which is Westernport Elementary today.
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
388 posts, read 660,139 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
The kids from Little Orleans go to Hancock because Flintstone High was closed back in 1999. It costs our county money to send them to Washington County schools, but it is a "favor" that was affordable so long as our county had a similar agreement with Garrett County for the kids that lived in Finzel would go to Frostburg schools, again for proximity regions. Garrett County canceled their agreement, Allegany may do the same. I don't think this is very good "evidence" that we benefit from Washington County being our neighbor since all we "receive" is the right to pay money so rural kids don't have to travel so far. I don't think Hancock High is a better school than Fort Hill, but it saves the kids maybe 30-40 minutes a day in travel time.
I'd be willing to bet, also, that the loss of Garrett County students hurt our school system more than the loss of a few kids in Little Orleans would hurt Washington County. Not only did we lose kids from Finzel that went to Beall district schools, but virtually everyone from Bloomington Middle went on to Westmar High and quite a few kids in my class lived in the Savage River area or just over the county line. We have to do something to make up for the loss. It really is unfortunate. Now kids from Finzel have to travel all the way to Northern, Bloomington kids travel up and down dangerous Backbone Mountain to Southern, and soon we may have students from Little Orleans commuting to Cumberland, each with much closer schools in their vicinity.
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,632,343 times
Reputation: 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by drs72 View Post
As an Allegany County resident, I wholly agree with everything you said, except for this ^. This is incorrect (although not far off). Valley High opened its doors in the fall of 1953 when Central and Barton combined. I'm almost positive Bruce was also built in that general timeframe. It replaced the old Bruce building which is Westernport Elementary today.
Good catch. I forgot about the former High Schools that now serve other purposes. I also forgot to mention my school, BW which opened in the late 1960s.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,632,343 times
Reputation: 2790
I should make one more point for the record, the land Terrapin Run is/was to be built was owned by a doctor from Frederick named Swami Nathan who had the area selectively cut for valuable timber several times. The tract itself contains the crooked trees left behind and young forest growth.

The land there is not nearly as pristine or unaltered as most of the 75% of Allegany County that is covered in forest land. Forest is something we have plenty of, working families, not so much. The situation is very much reversed from that of the rest of the state.
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:50 PM
 
25 posts, read 46,778 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
"Western Maryland is pretty well off despite the stereotypes" as said from a transplant to Washington County. I should just rest my case there on why people from the "real Western Maryland" get upset when we are lumped in with you guys.

Allegany and Garrett Counties are normally 2 of the bottom 3 counties for any and all income stats for the state. Allegany County has been bleeding population for 60 years, down from 89k in 1950 to about 65k (don't include prisoners) today. Oh, yeah, "we" are doing great says the Washington County transplant.

Allegany County had our FIRST high school built since WWII 3 years ago. Our other two highs schools were built in 1923 and 1940-something. Cumberland's two middle schools are in even worse shape, overcrowded, at least 50 years old. Come out here and tour around our community and our schools and tell me again that "we are pretty well off" and that PG and B-more deserve school construction money over us.

Why so angry westsideboy? Is it because you think I am an "transplant" or is it you think I "disagree" with you? Or the dreaded double-wamie: both?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, well aside from all the intolerance of other views than your own, which is let's face it, a HUGE part of you argument: "I must be one of them and you resent being connected to us". You got your team and everyone else is the enemy. Love you too, man.

Prospectively, western Maryland is depressed; that does not mean it sucks or is bad off. There are several historical and corporate reasons for population fluctuations in the greater western MD area. You could change that by the way if you wanted to, get a fortune 500 to set up shop.

Overall, western MD is pretty nice place to live. The local economy isn't the best, but its not the worst either. Crime is low. Several western MD jurisdictions are getting big on city and town beautification projects.

PG county, on the extreme other hand, is a horrible place to live. The local economy is bad. Crime is high, really high. Several PD county jurisdictions aren't trying to to make things prettier, but stop them for falling apart.

You are too focused on me, rather than the issue, but if you must know (and, sadly it seems you must), I grew up all over the state- including western MD. I really don't know if that makes me "one of them", you know- "them".

Okay, I'm starting to rant, I'll stop. The tears just stopped flowing, westsideboy. I feel better . I must be wrong, after all- I'm just a transplant. Not a kool kid like you. Sniff, sniff. Why won't you just love me? I love you.

Last edited by vwclassic; 05-23-2011 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,632,343 times
Reputation: 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwclassic View Post
Why so angry westsideboy? Is it because you think I am an "transplant" or is it you think I "disagree" with you? Or the dreaded double-wamie: both?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, well aside from all the intolerance of other views than your own, which is let's face it, a HUGE part of you argument: "I must be one of them and you resent being connected to us". You got your team and everyone else is the enemy. Love you too, man.

Prospectively, western Maryland is depressed; that does not mean it sucks or is bad off. There are several historical and corporate reasons for population fluctuations in the greater western MD area. You could change that by the way if you wanted to, get a fortune 500 to set up shop.

Overall, western MD is pretty nice place to live. The local economy isn't the best, but its not the worst either. Crime is low. Several western MD jurisdictions are getting big on city and town beautification projects.

PG county, on the extreme other hand, is a horrible place to live. The local economy is bad. Crime is high, really high. Several PD county jurisdictions aren't trying to to make things prettier, but stop them for falling apart.

You are too focused on me, rather than the issue, but if you must know (and, sadly it seems you must), I grew up all over the state- including western MD. I really don't know if that makes me "one of them", you know- "them".

Okay, I'm starting to rant, I'll stop. The tears just stopped flowing, westsideboy. I feel better . I must be wrong, after all- I'm just a transplant. Not a kool kid like you. Sniff, sniff. Why won't you just love me? I love you.
You applied Washington County standards of living and opportunity to that of Allegany County. This is not a fair comparison, our counties do not share crucial economic and geographic similarities, like proximity to the metro area and the availability of flat land for agricultural, or easy conversion to new housing, and most importantly in the argument about the alcohol tax, the proximity of your primary city to WV.

I don't think you know much about the state west of Hagerstown, if you do, feel free to fill me in on what your basis of knowledge is. Once you establish that, we can debate on even ground about what is good or bad for my home county vis-a-vis the state as a whole.

Last edited by westsideboy; 05-24-2011 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:22 PM
 
25 posts, read 46,778 times
Reputation: 14
Hmm. Okay I'll take the blame for indulging this. I never even mentioned Allegany County, or Garrett for that matter. I did use the term western MD. You are in western MD, so am I. My views are as relevant as yours. If you want to be referred to as western western MD, that's fine. Are we arguing about who's perspective is better? I'm sorry, but that is even to silly for me. And I'm a silly ba-stard.

Ask the Gov is on right now. Call up and ask O'Malley your questions. Based on numbers though the odds of you being heard are against you. The odd are against me too for that matter. Try though, I want to see western western MD issues addressed. I really do.

Do you not get tax based state subsidies? I don't know western western MD politics as well as I know western MD politics, but I would guess that Allegany and Garrett get state money. Another question is: if so, are the people in Baltimore and PG County complaining about it?

I personally do not have a problem helping out PG County or western western MD if it is needed. We are all Marylanders, even you all in western western MD.
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