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Yeah, and who is the person who set up that situation their PARENT! People argue that the children are innocent victims' in all this.
Okay. lol
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You mean to tell me that -- given that they WERE NOT born here and don't have U.S. birth certificates -- NO ONE throughout all the chain of their lives knew they were illegals? Why was nothing done then, or when they first went to school, or somewhere earlier along the line.
Nothing was done because we don't have laws in place (or resources to backup currents laws) to handle the issue... which is why we are here to discuss it.
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We taxpayers are innocent TOO! IF they're not entitled to services or whatever it's their parents fault not ours.
Taxpayers receive cheaper goods in the process... we are not totally innocent. Far large companies to see a bigger ROI... cheap labor.
No one is innocent in this... with maybe the exception of the kid... we did not have a process in place and the parents started the kids down this path.
Let's say someone came to you and said, "We are moving you to Spain... a little town in the middle of no place because your great, great, great grand parents were here illegally." Right... lol
More important, what do you think we should do about this situation?
Yeah, and who is the person who set up that situation their PARENT! People argue that the children are innocent victims' in all this.
But why should the kids be punished for the crimes of their parents?
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You mean to tell me that -- given that they WERE NOT born here and don't have U.S. birth certificates -- NO ONE throughout all the chain of their lives knew they were illegals? Why was nothing done then, or when they first went to school, or somewhere earlier along the line.
As the laws are right now, schools have to accept illegal immigrant children. If they end up graduating high school and getting into college, isn't that something we want to encourage, rather than discourage? As King_of_DC mentioned, we can't just deport everyone- we don't have the resources.
So we have to accept that these kids are staying here, like it or not. The choice here is whether we want to offer the kids (who are innocent victims in this) a way to become legal, or if we force them to pay for the sins of their parents.
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We taxpayers are innocent TOO! IF they're not entitled to services or whatever it's their parents fault not ours.
But the Maryland law actually required the kids' parents to be taxpayers to receive in-state tuition. In this case, the illegals are taxpayers too.
In-state tuition is STILL extremely expensive. International tuition is basically INSANELY EXPENSIVE.
Even on in-state tuition, educational institutes make a lot of profit. What's wrong with circulating that money around IN the U.S., as opposed to having it being sent abroad?
Location: Maryland: Baltimore and Somerset Counties
51 posts, read 91,897 times
Reputation: 34
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Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
Why not?
What's wrong with circulating that money around IN the U.S., as opposed to having it being sent abroad?
Why not? Because they are illegal aliens. They are felons and not citizens. They do not pay taxes as we do. Where do you think the in-state tuition breaks come from? Tax payer dollars. The chunk of tuition not paid by the savings provided by in-state rates has to be funded somehow. I love how you say "circulate that money in the US" as if that is what people are arguing. Of COURSE circulate that (TAXPAYER) money in the US- but circulate it with our young US citizens, NOT with the spawn of illegal aliens for God's sake. Not surprisingly, this is coming from someone who lives in Japan...who probably thinks he's more "worldly" than everyone else and therefore has the one and only right answer to this situation.
Location: Maryland: Baltimore and Somerset Counties
51 posts, read 91,897 times
Reputation: 34
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Originally Posted by pcity
But the Maryland law actually required the kids' parents to be taxpayers to receive in-state tuition. In this case, the illegals are taxpayers too.
False. There are plenty of ways around this. If their parents are illegal, they are NEVER going to be paying the same rate of taxation as a true citizen would. Sure, they may pay some taxes here and there- but not the SAME AMOUNT as legal citizens- if they attempted to do so they would be caught by the law and obviously shown to be illegal.
In-state tuition is STILL extremely expensive. International tuition is basically INSANELY EXPENSIVE.
Even on in-state tuition, educational institutes make a lot of profit. What's wrong with circulating that money around IN the U.S., as opposed to having it being sent abroad?
Exactly.
The argument is solid since the parents are already paying taxes... at the same rate as everyone else (up the kazooo).
The false assumption is that illegals don't pay taxes, which has been show to be false over and over again... not even sure why it is an argument anymore.
Location: Maryland: Baltimore and Somerset Counties
51 posts, read 91,897 times
Reputation: 34
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Originally Posted by King_of_DC
Exactly.
The argument is solid since the parents are already paying taxes... at the same rate as everyone else (up the kazooo).
Absolutely false. How could they pay taxes and consult accountants and NOT be caught for being illegal? The argument holds no water.
No one said they didn't pay ANY taxes- they just pay the select few they can without being CAUGHT. This is not the same as the taxation a legitimate citizen pays.
The most IMPORTANT thing that is coming out of all of these "Dream acts" is the fact that people are starting to understand that we need to discuss this issue, while keeping laws in mind.
We can't have endless discussions with no legislation.
Doing nothing will not work. Instead of being upset or giving the standard reply of "deport them", what is your plan? Being simple and saying "deport them" will not work since that will end up bankrupting the entire country. We don't have enough resources to win the deportation fight.
Can't say I agree with all of these plans putting forth, but sending a kid back to Mexico who was born here and went to school here does not seem right, IMO. And, yes, their parents should have thought about that before moving here... can't argue with that, but these kids are every bit American as you and I... they are out of place in Mexico and not even wanted there.
All the "liberal" this and "liberal" that talk should stop... honestly, is that all anyone can bring to a serious discussion these days?
I agree that this is an important discussion and it is important to talk about. I think the answer is a lot simpler than just "deporting them". If this nation enforces laws the way they are written, do not provide backdoor amnesty, and doesn't offer benefits to illegal immigrants they will deport themselves, meaning that they will leave on their own. The biggest issue with illegal immigration is the lobbyists that work in this nation's legislation who would rather look the other way as opposed to enforce laws because they benefit from them. If you look at states like Virginia and Arizona, you have perfect examples of what will happen if you enforce laws. Here's a few questions:
Why are businesses that hire these illegal immigrants not fined?
If it is okay to break immigration laws, what other laws will be okay to break? Where do you draw the line?
Why do children of illegal immigrants get the opportunity for benefits, when this state is financially strapped and many of the eligible legal residents of this state can not get financial help for their children (a few years ago I was a perfect example of this)?
Why should the parents not be held accountable for putting their children is such a dangerous situation? Is the fact that they would risk their lives and their children lives to enter this country illegal, a responsibility of the parents for any consequences that should unfold?
Bottom line, this may seem like the "right thing to do", but you have to be practical and think about how these things will work out. And just for clarification, illegal immigrants 'can' pay taxes by obtaining ITINs, BUT that doesn't guarantee that they all will do it and that they will be taxed the correct amount. Remember they are not documented so it is not as simple to keep up with them as registered legal citizens.
False. There are plenty of ways around this. If their parents are illegal, they are NEVER going to be paying the same rate of taxation as a true citizen would. Sure, they may pay some taxes here and there- but not the SAME AMOUNT as legal citizens- if they attempted to do so they would be caught by the law and obviously shown to be illegal.
The only tax they aren't paying is the income tax. Since they make a small pittance of what the rest of us make...it probably does come out to a wash.
Basically if more Americans were willing to get off unemployment and work at the many low-wage jobs we have all over the place, than we wouldn't be employing immigrants to do those jobs.
I agree that this is an important discussion and it is important to talk about. I think the answer is a lot simpler than just "deporting them". If this nation enforces laws the way they are written, do not provide backdoor amnesty, and doesn't offer benefits to illegal immigrants they will deport themselves, meaning that they will leave on their own. The biggest issue with illegal immigration is the lobbyists that work in this nation's legislation who would rather look the other way as opposed to enforce laws because they benefit from them. If you look at states like Virginia and Arizona, you have perfect examples of what will happen if you enforce laws. Here's a few questions:
First off, great post. I don't have the correct answers but hopefully we can discuss...
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Why are businesses that hire these illegal immigrants not fined?
I believe it has to do with money and resources. Businesses can charge less when they pay less... and we simply don't have enough people to deport these gals/guys. But then we have "rich" people or people "well off" who don't ask the status of the people doing their lawns. Do you hire company A for $300 a month to do your lawn or company B for $120 to do the same job? Hmm... lol
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If it is okay to break immigration laws, what other laws will be okay to break? Where do you draw the line?
Not sure... I go 5 to 9 over the speed limit on the highway.... lol
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Why do children of illegal immigrants get the opportunity for benefits, when this state is financially strapped and many of the eligible legal residents of this state can not get financial help for their children (a few years ago I was a perfect example of this)?
But how many benefits do they have? Might be a situation where some might see some benefit that you see but the majority are toaste.
And either way, I think we must protect children. Period...
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Why should the parents not be held accountable for putting their children is such a dangerous situation? Is the fact that they would risk their lives and their children lives to enter this country illegal, a responsibility of the parents for any consequences that should unfold?
Well, two people arrive in their teens.... they have sex and boom... they have kids. Not sure they were thinking of the situation at the time.
They knew from others that the kids would be accepted into the school systems here... they only want to improve their situation. Mexico sucks... I'd get the hell out of there as well.
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Bottom line, this may seem like the "right thing to do", but you have to be practical and think about how these things will work out. And just for clarification, illegal immigrants 'can' pay taxes by obtaining ITINs, BUT that doesn't guarantee that they all will do it and that they will be taxed the correct amount. Remember they are not documented so it is not as simple to keep up with them as registered legal citizens.
Thanks for the info on ITINs... my only worry about illegals is when they pay taxes in another person's name or the business takes out taxes but don't file them because they know the people are illegal...
In general:
For the record, I'm not saying it is right or wrong... I guess my question back to you is, 1. what is your answer? 2. What do you think should be done?
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