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Old 11-19-2014, 11:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball freak View Post
All you have to go on is your opinion. The University of Pennsylvania groups Baltimore and Philly into the same region and apart from the Southern accent.
Nice try, except I am not using my opinion, I am using that of the University of Pennsylvania, which are the same people that think Philly is Southern inflected, NOT the other way around.

Interestingly you leave out the fact that DC is also in that grouping. So TWO Southern cities are grouped with Philly, and this makes the dialect Northeastern? Can you count? TWO IS GREATER THAN ONE.

Quote:
Good god you would say Baltimore is Southern even if it were just like New York wouldn't you. Get lost. You're a waste of time and energy.
Ah, but it just EATS YOU UP inside that Baltimore isn't like New York, doesn't it? It eats you up inside that Baltimore is on the Atlantic side of the country yet doesn't really have much in common with New York other than that. The fact that Baltimore doesn't even sound a *hint* like New York probably really bothers you to the point you can't sleep at night.

All you have is personal anecdotes. I present facts and research by experts. You see said research, put your head in the damn sand, and scream "lalalalala" in a pretend New York accent because that's how you think you should sound.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball freak View Post
I think you just dismiss accents because you know they throw a dent in your theories. What a state was before the Civil War has nothing to do with what it is today. Today Maryland is culturally, overall linguistically, politically, and overall demographically not a Southern state. Eddieolskool will disagree but I no longer care for either of your opinions. Think what you want but don't try to convert me.
They throw a dent in anyone's theories. You didn't bother to read the same research by William Labov, from the UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA that states that Philly's dialect is in fact, Southern influenced.

But no, you'll go on pretending that Philly is a mini-New York, and Baltimore is a mini-Philly, so vicariously Baltimore MUST be a mini-New York.

Dialects PROVE that Baltimore is Southern, not the other way around.

Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 11-19-2014 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Dialects do matter, but they are only one of many cultural markers that should be considered.

I think it should also be mentioned that no one argues that any part of Maryland speaks with a Northern dialect. Our state has always been right on the border between the Midland dialect groups and the Southern ones, hence the difficulty in deciding "where to draw the line" between these major segments of American English.

Maryland being on the dialect border is a reflection on our historic and current place between 3 of 4 great migratory groups in the early US, the Tidewater settlers, the PA Midland settlers, and the Back Country, aka Appalachian, settlers. Notice what is missing? The Yankees. We are two far south to have been influenced linguistically or culturally by the 4th large group of early American settlers. (read Albion's Seed for more info on this topic)

So, there is some basis for calling Maryland "Mid-Atlantic," whatever that term means. There is no basis for grouping us with any state further north than PA.
Great point. It stands to reason that these groups that influenced MD also influenced VA but people have a convenient way of forgetting that.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:26 AM
 
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Other than dialect, you don't think "Philly is a mini-New York, and Baltimore is a mini-Philly that have some NY in it???!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
They throw a dent in anyone's theories. You didn't bother to read the same research by Williuam Labov, from the UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA that states that Philly's dialect is in fact, Southern influenced.

But no, you'll go on pretending that Philly is a mini-New York, and Baltimore is a mini-Philly, so vicariously Baltimore MUST be a mini-New York.

Dialects PROVE that Baltimore is Southern, not the other way around.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:29 AM
 
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That is why Baltimore, and Maryland in general, have a disproportionately amount of Hillbilly cultural ethos amongst its past and present populations!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Great point. It stands to reason that these groups that influenced MD also influenced VA but people have a convenient way of forgetting that.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_heights77 View Post
Other than dialect, you don't think "Philly is a mini-New York, and Baltimore is a mini-Philly that have some NY in it???!"
What is the "some NY" in Baltimore?
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:31 AM
 
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"Ah, but it just EATS YOU UP inside that Baltimore isn't like New York, doesn't it?"

*Honestly, Baltimore can learn a lot from New York City in my personal opinion!



Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Nice try, except I am not using my opinion, I am using that of the University of Pennsylvania, which are the same people that think Philly is Southern inflected, NOT the other way around.

Interestingly you leave out the fact that DC is also in that grouping. So TWO Southern cities are grouped with Philly, and this makes the dialect Northeastern? Can you count? TWO IS GREATER THAN ONE.



Ah, but it just EATS YOU UP inside that Baltimore isn't like New York, doesn't it? It eats you up inside that Baltimore is on the Atlantic side of the country yet doesn't really have much in common with New York other than that. The fact that Baltimore doesn't even sound a *hint* like New York probably really bothers you to the point you can't sleep at night.

All you have is personal anecdotes. I present facts and research by experts. You see said research, put your head in the damn sand, and scream "lalalalala" in a pretend New York accent because that's how you think you should sound.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:43 AM
 
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You want to start past or contemporary?

Awwww, for one example is Baltmore's port system, whether you like it or not, it has historical significance in bringing in newly European immigrants. I know you know the history..so NO need to explain!

Man, my grandfather was from Brooklyn, NY who came down to Baltimore in the 1960's. He said certain Black neighborhoods, with it's growing West Indian community residing besides its Jewish enclaves reminded him of such neighborhoods he grew up in. Some of the Black neighborhoods in Baltimore, before the riots of 68', you have a smorgasbord of Black owned and operated community business that reminded him of his Brooklyn, NY neighborhoods. Inaddition, he would go on about the same amount of racism and discriminatory practices, and ethnic strife in NY, which was stronger in Baltimore due it's strong policies and laws against Blacks in the city. Read Larry Gibson's work on Thurogood Marshall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
What is the "some NY" in Baltimore?
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:48 AM
 
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If you just want to stick with dialects as being that definitive marker culturally, then so be it. Baltimore's demography and culture is changing swiftly, I see a more influx of Latinos, Internationals, continental Africans, Ex-New York/NJ transplants who are changing the local dialects as we speak. Keep holding onto to that Hon way of talking and acting, it's getting pushed out of here like dead shrimp on a plate.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_heights77 View Post
You want to start past or contemporary?

Awwww, for one example is Baltmore's port system, whether you like it or not, it has historical significance in bringing in newly European immigrants. I know you know the history..so NO need to explain!
Yes, Baltimore was actually very good at that, which is why it has the large amounts of diversity that it does compared to other cities in the South. True.

Quote:
Man, my grandfather was from Brooklyn, NY who came down to Baltimore in the 1960's. He said certain Black neighborhoods, with it's growing West Indian community residing besides its Jewish enclaves reminded him of such neighborhoods he grew up in.
Also true.

Quote:
Some of the Black neighborhoods in Baltimore, before the riots of 68', you have a smorgasbord of Black owned and operated community business that reminded him of his Brooklyn, NY neighborhoods. Inaddition, he would go on about the same amount of racism and discriminatory practices, and ethnic strife in NY, which was stronger in Baltimore due it's strong policies and laws against Blacks in the city. Read Larry Gibson's work on Thurogood Marshall.
On this point, would that be strictly a NY thing?
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