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Old 02-27-2011, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 955,098 times
Reputation: 175

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Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Yeah, I said that, and much more. Doesn't seem to make much of a difference in the discussions though. There are a few posters that have clear cut agendas about why they think/want Maryland to be labeled a Northeastern state. Most of it comes back to the stereotypes of NE states being rich, educated, liberal, while the South is poor, ignorant, and conservative. Many of the NE transplants moving to Maryland want to conceive of their new home as being similar to the one they left. It should be no surprise then that they move to the metro part of the state, see what they want to see, then make argument after argument why their observations, opinions, etc. are more valid.

I find it personally frustrating when posters end up admiting "Yeah, Maryland is a border state," but then continue to argue why this label should then be subject to some sort of "voting" where the majority of our state's residents clustered around the metro areas (of course being transplants or the children of transplants) can outnumber, outvote, and thus change the identity of the state as a whole.

It is a incorrect argument on its face because cultural heritage doesn't follow politically drawn borders, and Maryland has always been one of the states settled in patterns reflecting the North and the South. Maybe this makes us both, maybe it makes us neither? I don't know, but it clearly doesn't make us one or the other.

Anyone who argues otherwise has to type alot of text, present alot of data, and then make that leap of faith that their argument and data actually translates into the identity of all of our state's residents, especially the natives, at a personal level.

I would just let it be. Some posters are always going to try and have the last word, as though that somehow means they "win" the argument. Whatever, I don't need anybody else to tell me what Maryland is. I know, I am from here, my parents are from here, my grandparents are from here, my great-grandparents are from here, and so on back to when my ancestors had to build their homes in defense of Indian raids. Sure change happens, but it doesn't erase or change the history of those whose ancestor's directly connect themselves to the past. All change does is layer on top.

Maybe one day, all of the transplant veneer can be striped off of our state layer by layer to reveal the true masterpiece underneath.
I could not have said this better in my dreams- that was an eloquent post and worthy of honors. It speaks volumes for those of us who have seen the transformation and have an uneasy frustration about others trying to label our own home and/or change our ways (knowingly or unknowingly). I won't add anything else to it - it's perfect as is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticViking View Post
Its funny though these "Rich Liberal North Easterner's" who love it where they are and how there liberal state does things--->...move to southern, more conservative states...and then try to take over the way they do things...Thats the funny thing about the liberal transplants.
I agree. If the Census is to be referenced, it is clear that Maryland is leaning more Southern in terms of growth habits, as many are fleeing New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania for work in our state. Because of this population boom, you are seeing the suburbs and housing developments now starting to encroach on more rural areas of Maryland and causing "culture friction" between native residents and newcomers because of the perceived (and often very real) changes brought about by this migration into the state.
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:35 PM
 
3,137 posts, read 7,885,316 times
Reputation: 1946
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticViking View Post
Its funny though these "Rich Liberal North Easterner's" who love it where they are and how there liberal state does things--->...move to southern, more conservative states...and then try to take over the way they do things...Thats the funny thing about the liberal transplants.
You do realize that Maryland is one of the richest and most liberal states in the union? If anything, "liberal transplants" are the people leaving Maryland and going to places like North Carolina.
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,558 posts, read 7,619,598 times
Reputation: 2769
Liberal is an awfully generous term to describe MD politics. Leftist is more appropriate. Liberals normally strive to protect individual rights, while enacting regulations and taxation upon fiscal transactions and businesses. Leftists seek to control both human behavior at the individual and organized/corporate level.

For instance a liberal state like California legalized medical marijuana, a leftist state like Maryland sets up big speed traps with sniff dogs waiting to catch marijuana users. There is a reason people call our state the "People's Republic of Maryland." Leftists also like accomulating lots of information on people, like O'Malley's big push to DNA test people arrested (read that correctly, not convicted, just arrested) of crimes and to "consolidate" all medical records into one database so Big Brother and Big Pharm can take a quick look how all of use the medical health field. Oh, yeah and the redlight/speed cameras. They provide a great survellience tool to see where people are traveling to and from. Leftist governments love this kind of stuff, it is easier to track people and what they do that way.

Last edited by westsideboy; 02-27-2011 at 09:02 PM..
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 955,098 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcity View Post
You do realize that Maryland is one of the richest and most liberal states in the union? If anything, "liberal transplants" are the people leaving Maryland and going to places like North Carolina.
Actually, I believe you are wrong on that one. I would wager that the majority of native Marylanders fleeing the state are more conservative individuals doing so because the state is becoming WAY more liberal than it ever was (I know, hard to believe) for more conservative states. At least that's why my neighbors and myself will be "fleeing" the state in the near future.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 955,098 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Oh, yeah and the redlight/speed cameras. They provide a great survellience tool to see where people are traveling to and from. Leftist governments love this kind of stuff, it is easier to track people and what they do that way.
I'll have to disagree with you there. While they are certainly like slot machines that always land on JACKPOT for the state, I don't think they are "trackers". I mean, how is that possible? They can show a car pass, but how the hell would one camera in a stationary position "track" that person to their destination to see where they are going? lol I guess you could argue that they are aiming for one on every corner, so therefore they would be able to track your progress as you pass each one, but even that is a bit far-fetched. With the disgustingly high population density of Central Maryland, I am pretty sure they would never have the resources to devote to tracking people's every move- I think that's based in a bit of irrational paranoia, but hell, I've been proven wrong before, so who knows!
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,558 posts, read 7,619,598 times
Reputation: 2769
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
I'll have to disagree with you there. While they are certainly like slot machines that always land on JACKPOT for the state, I don't think they are "trackers". I mean, how is that possible? They can show a car pass, but how the hell would one camera in a stationary position "track" that person to their destination to see where they are going? lol I guess you could argue that they are aiming for one on every corner, so therefore they would be able to track your progress as you pass each one, but even that is a bit far-fetched. With the disgustingly high population density of Central Maryland, I am pretty sure they would never have the resources to devote to tracking people's every move- I think that's based in a bit of irrational paranoia, but hell, I've been proven wrong before, so who knows!

The cameras can't track you like Batman or anything, but they leave a time stamp on your car at a certain place at a certain time. When you pass another camera, it records a time stamp of your car at a certain place at a certain time. Look around for them. There are cameras set up in alot of places watching the road that aren't red light cameras. For instance there is a camera recording all of the cars passing by on I-68 on the pedestrial overpass on Sideling Hill.

Does the state have the time to go through that mountain of information to make files on people or stuff like that, I doubt it. But if they wanted to, and sometimes the state does want to track where a person is going, or keep a look out for a certain vehicle, they can watch in real time, or go back through the tape and look. Seems harmless enough for now, but eventually computers will be able to process that kind of data, and I have no doubt the goverment will try and use it. I believe the Chinese use a techonology that allows them to ID and follow faces as they pass through urban areas. Maybe it is already here?

Last edited by westsideboy; 02-27-2011 at 11:40 PM..
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,688 posts, read 34,684,028 times
Reputation: 9224
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
The cameras can't track you like Batman or anything, but they leave a time stamp on your car at a certain place at a certain time. When you pass another camera, it records a time stamp of your car at a certain place at a certain time. Look around for them. There are cameras set up in alot of places watching the road that aren't red light cameras. For instance there is a camera recording all of the cars passing by on I-68 on the pedestrial overpass on Sideling Hill.

Does the state have the time to go through that mountain of information to make files on people or stuff like that, I doubt it. But if they wanted to, and sometimes the state does want to track where a person is going, or keep a look out for a certain vehicle, they can watch in real time, or go back through the tape and look. Seems harmless enough for now, but eventually computers will be able to process that kind of data, and I have no doubt the goverment will try and use it. I believe the Chinese use a techonology that allows them to ID and follow faces as they pass through urban areas. Maybe it is already here?
Speaking of which...would be real easy to setup a computer program to just keep records of where any person has been through their car records in that way.

I mean, cop pulls you over, he could access ALL of your activity and everywhere you've been.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 955,098 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
The cameras can't track you like Batman or anything, but they leave a time stamp on your car at a certain place at a certain time. When you pass another camera, it records a time stamp of your car at a certain place at a certain time. Look around for them. There are cameras set up in alot of places watching the road that aren't red light cameras. For instance there is a camera recording all of the cars passing by on I-68 on the pedestrial overpass on Sideling Hill.

Does the state have the time to go through that mountain of information to make files on people or stuff like that, I doubt it. But if they wanted to, and sometimes the state does want to track where a person is going, or keep a look out for a certain vehicle, they can watch in real time, or go back through the tape and look. Seems harmless enough for now, but eventually computers will be able to process that kind of data, and I have no doubt the goverment will try and use it. I believe the Chinese use a techonology that allows them to ID and follow faces as they pass through urban areas. Maybe it is already here?
That's scary. You know, I've been telling people for years that we need to be wary of technology. In many ways, in my opinion, it should not progress. I think certain areas should continue to improve like medical technology, but things like communications technology and what you're mentioning have reached their crux or have went overboard already. I think social media and smartphones, etc are ruining our culture. I'd hate to see 20 years from now in a lot of ways. If anyone wants to implant chips in me or some **** for "my own benefit", they can screw themselves because I'd rather die first than become a tagged specimen.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:57 AM
 
3,137 posts, read 7,885,316 times
Reputation: 1946
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Liberal is an awfully generous term to describe MD politics. Leftist is more appropriate. Liberals normally strive to protect individual rights, while enacting regulations and taxation upon fiscal transactions and businesses. Leftists seek to control both human behavior at the individual and organized/corporate level.

For instance a liberal state like California legalized medical marijuana, a leftist state like Maryland sets up big speed traps with sniff dogs waiting to catch marijuana users. There is a reason people call our state the "People's Republic of Maryland." Leftists also like accomulating lots of information on people, like O'Malley's big push to DNA test people arrested (read that correctly, not convicted, just arrested) of crimes and to "consolidate" all medical records into one database so Big Brother and Big Pharm can take a quick look how all of use the medical health field. Oh, yeah and the redlight/speed cameras. They provide a great survellience tool to see where people are traveling to and from. Leftist governments love this kind of stuff, it is easier to track people and what they do that way.
To be fair, California is in many ways the leader of the "nanny state" laws- fast food bans, sin taxes, the labels on every electrical cord that say "this product has been known in the state of CA to cause cancer", etc. I'm not going to defend MD's use of traffic cameras, but CA isn't exactly a bastion of freedom comparatively.

The liberal vs. leftist issue is an interesting one. The word "liberal" originally would have been synonymous with what we today call a "libertarian". Some people still use the term "classical liberal" to describe that political view. Over the years, "liberal" became associated with more government and more regulation, and so, it seems most people regard "leftist" and "liberal" as equivalents.

The "liberals" that you speak of, the ones who want more government to have a somewhat greater fiscal role, but who are against nanny-statism are almost extinct today. It's a shame because, even though I don't fully agree with this political view, it would be nice to see someone balance out the government-is-always-bad Tea Partiers and the government-is-always-good leftists/liberals. (I'll just stop here because anything further I say is going to get this moved to Politics/Other Controversies )

To tie this back into MD vs. the South, the nanny-statism is something that does distinguish MD from VA, NC, SC, etc. and places it more in line with states like NJ. I know some posters are going to come back and say that the nanny-statism is the result of one region of the state controlling all of the others, and not representative of the state as a whole. But to that, I'd say that PA and NY are also like this. You've got large urban populations that decide the elections even though the majority of the geographic area of the state swings the other way.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,558 posts, read 7,619,598 times
Reputation: 2769
There are plenty of states both north and south of Maryland that have 1-party rule at the state level. The fact that Maryland's one party rule tending towards leftism does make us more similar to our northern neighbors than our other neighbors. WV is the obvious counter example. It is a state run by Democrats, but is not nearly the nanny-state Maryland is.

I am not sure if Maryland's nanny state tendancies are new or old. It may have to do with the urban population controlling statewide elections, but it may predate that. I don't know enough about Maryland political history to say.
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