Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hill country Western PA is the same. I bought a peck of potatoes and took them home in a poke. Some of my students are as dumb as a box of rocks. My tools are in the cellar.
Numbers 1 and 2 are right on the money! Tonic is something else to the old timers.....keep the guesses coming!
NPB, I forgot you are from PA too, I doubt you hear these terms down in Southern Maryland Any guesses on the last two, I think added them when you were posting.
My grandfather said tonic when he took cough medicine.
My great uncle (an, shall we say, independent alcohol manufacturer) called his home brew tonic (actually it was a deep in the woods brew).
In my ex part of PA market would be the grocery store and doing a wash would be laundry.
Yup, market is a grocery store and wash is laundry. This is so great for me to hear. I always wondered where these terms came from. I figured they weren't MD terms because when I went to college people looked at me like I had two heads when I would "stove my finger" or say "I need to go home so my mom can do my wash for me."
I thought they may be PA or WV expressions.
As for tonic - it is soda/pop. My grandma called baking soda "soda" and any kind of soft drink was "tonic." But I suspect that term came from the old patent medicines that evolved into the soft drinks of today.
She also had a very intrusive "r" in her speech 'soil' was pronounced "serl" "oil" was "earl" "boil" was "berl" I miss her and feel bad as a little kid telling her she was saying things "wrong." Occasionally I will find someone her age from the western part of the county and close my eyes and listen. My grandfather and mom from the other side of the family had lots of PAisms in their speech too. I blame my mom for this one, but in my speech
pull
pole
pool
are all prounounced the same. I can't even hear the difference when other people say these words in context, and I have no ability to imitate them. This is a Pittsburgh thing too. There are many localisms and regionalisms I purposefully keep like the "needs washed" construction and the lexical terms we are discussing, but I would love to lose the pull/pole/pool merger. Even in Cumberland it is a rarity.
Labov (the linguist) claims this vowel merger is making its way out of Pittsburgh among the younger generations into all of SW PA and adjacent regions. I tell people I am ahead of the curve, and one day their grandkids will pronouce them just like me
Last edited by westsideboy; 03-02-2011 at 07:50 PM..
Yeah, I'm now a mix of WPA and SoMD. I drink soda (sometimes pop still slips out) when I'm here.
What's funny is when I'm back in PA and do a SoMDism like "right fair day" or ask about the PO-lice, ask someone about their new doge or need an am-BU-lance. My friends start laughing and the guy that doesn't know me says, "You're not from around here are you?". Which makes my friends laugh harder.
You know now that you mention it I do remember tonic as a soft drink. Those guys were real old timers and now I'm an early old timer.
I'm going to shut down now because I haven't hit a lick all day.
Again I agree with some on here that Maryland being Northern or Southern is not a black and white issue. Maryland is Southern, Appalachian, and Northeastern. Maybe if we all agreed to leave it at Mid-Atlantic (Northern Virginia to New York), which it is almost always considered, we wouldn't be having this discussion. (Type in Mid-Atlantic on Google Images and see what I mean ) My stance has always been that, in my opinion, there is more evidence tying Maryland to the Northeast than there is tying it to the South. More importantly it's a unique state with it's own culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitek
All one needs to do really is to watch a episode of the old movie ROOTS to confirm this lol. Note you do not live in a northern state or city if:
1. The city does not have a Puerto Rican day parade unlike Northern Cities as New Haven, Hartford, New York, Philadelphia, and Boston.
2. A KKK base like Annapolis and some other places in Maryland
3. Caprice Classics, Crown Victorias, Licoln Towncars, Dodge Magnums, Grand Marquis, and Pontiac Bonnevilles with large rims are the it cars for urban blacks instead of Sabbs, Hondas, Acura Legends, Acura Vigors, Volvos and BMWs.
4.Below mason dixon line
5.Has southern accents
6.Has Waffle Houses and Swamps
7. Has an extensive slave history along with Jim Crow laws ,segregation, and tobacco history.
8.No bodegas anywhere
9. Gucci Mane, Plies, Waka Flocka, and southern rap is heavily listened to instead of Fabolous, D. Block, Red Cafe,and Cassidy and east coast rappers to name a few.
Yeah, no offense but some of these are uhm, sketchy. Not really in their truth, but how they either separate Maryland from the Northeast or tie it to the South.
1. Ok, but how many Little Italy's are located south of Baltimore? (zero) How many Chinatowns are there south of DC (outside of LA and TX)?
2. Well "KKK base" isn't exactly how I would describe Annapolis. Take a look at this, particularly states in close vicinity such as VA, PA, and NJ: Hate Map | Southern Poverty Law Center
Also I wouldn't be surprised if there were more KKK "bases" per capita in half of the MidWestern states than there are in Maryland.
3. Well I'm a car enthusiast and I guess it's my experience vs yours, but I've seen the exact opposite. In Montgomery and mostly-black PG county (and most other suburban counties, parts of B'more and SE DC may be the different) foreign cars are the norm but I do also see the cars you're talking about (in MD and practically every other state on the East Coast) and I'll take your word for it you think they're exclusive to the South.
4. Yeah well I don't really agree that a line older than the United States is still an accurate border defining different cultural areas.
5. Very subjective. Again, seen it, but far from the norm (including many rural areas in Central and Western MD)
6. Yeah, Pennsylvania also has quite a few Waffle Houses. I don't know how something like swamps make Maryland Southern, and New Jersey certainly has them as well.
7. As for slaves, yep, so did Delaware (which more or less is universally considered Northeastern, but also has it's many Southern attributes), and by the Civil War half the blacks in MD were free with only 90K enslaved, more than I can say for the 500K slaves in Virginia. As for Jim Crow, true, but they got rid of them before than practically every other Southern state (such as it's anti-miscegenation law). Well yeah, Maryland today produces less tobacco than Connecticut (thanks to the state buyout).
8. I assume you're using the urban definition. I don't know about "anywhere" but there probably are less of them for the same reason as your 1.
9. Although few famous rap/hip-hop artists hail from DC-Baltimore it is still considered "East Coast" unlike Southern states is considered "Dirty South" (except for Virginia which can be grouped in either).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10
Very well said. I've been saying that "big city" and "south" are oxymorons. Large cities in the South are anomalous and most are recent phenomena. Even Baltimore and Washington DC which are part of Megalopolis are much newer cities compared to Philadelphia, New York, and Boston. The settlements of those cities are 100 years older than Baltimore and 170 years older than Washington DC. So much of the population base we attribute to Maryland comes from suburban DC expansion. By the time Washington DC began to seriously sprawl into Maryland, Philadelphia, New York, and Boston were twice as old as Washington DC. Those cities are still about 80-something percent older than DC and more than 50 percent older than Baltimore.
I agree with you on DC, which is a very unique city in it's own right (and personally, my favorite), but Baltimore is another story. Baltimore and Philadelphia have pretty similar cultures, as well and looks and feels. Technically Philadelphia is older than Balt., but wasn't really a "city" until the 1700's when Baltimore was formed. For half of the 19th century Baltimore was either larger or the same size as Philadelphia.
I agree with your very first sentence though, since outside of South Florida Southern cities for the most part cover a large land area, aren't very dense, don't have the Chinatowns and Little Italys you see in the NE, and most lack heavily-patronized alternative transit options.
Baltimore has a pop. density of approx 8K/sq. mile (depite huge population losses), DC has a pop. density of almost ~10K/sq. mile. The closest Southern city (outside of South Fla.) is Atlanta with 4K/sq. mile. Practically every major city in the Northeast has a pop. density higher than 5K/sq. mile.
What's funny is when I'm back in PA and do a SoMDism like "right fair day" or ask about the PO-lice, ask someone about their new doge or need an am-BU-lance. My friends start laughing and the guy that doesn't know me says, "You're not from around here are you?". Which makes my friends laugh harder.
We do the "po-lice" and "am-blance" thing here in Dundalk... but, don't get me started on Dundalkian Baltimorese! It's a whole 'nother animal!
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy
Our dialect reflects this and is different than the rest of the state. We go "sled-riding", not "sledding" When a big snow hits, we say the snow is "laying", not "sticking." I say people are "dumb as a coal shovel."
We say "sled-riding" and the snow's "laying" here in Dundalk, too. I don't think that's a pure Appalachian thing, however "dumb as a coal shovel" sure is!
Snow lays in Dundalk and you go sled-riding! I am happy to hear that.
Now, the real question is whether you (and other Dundockers) would use "laying" over "sticking" instinctually, or are you just familar enough with both terms that neither sounds weird?
But about 6% of metro DC blacks are African immigrants and almost 2% of metro DC overall is comprised of African immigrants. So much like the Asian and Hispanic populations, there will likely be a time in the near future where PG County is quite "non-southern", even amongst the black population should native-born blacks start to assimilate to African norms rather than the other way around. So the reason why metro DC has the highest overall African immigrant population as well as highest percentage of African immigrants of any metro area in the U.S. is because metro Washington perfectly targets their demographic: a large pre-existing black population, lots of higher education opportunities at very good schools, and lots of job opportunities for the highly educated.
6% is high for African immigrants, but than it means 94% are African-American born.
But, when I viewing Silver Spring in particular, African-African to African-Ameican populations seemed to be almost split!
Nontheless, and this might be deserving of another thread altogether. But, is there much interest from the African-American population in regards to the African-African population? I mean to assimilate towards in certain ways.
I also wonder if the reasons the African-African population has such high education numbers, is I wouldn't be surprised that the government makes it harder for them to get into the country without it.
Whereas Carribbean-African, and I have no idea where their education stats are at, but I'd imagine it could be more akin to the Latino population, as it's an easy hop and skip away.
It seems like places like India, Africa, etc. Places that are far, far away, and not so easy to get to to the U.S., it requires a lot more education and all of the most proper channels.
Since I'm posting on a 'Maryland is Southern' thread. I'll try to tie this in somehow by adding that Maryland is certainly changing again. It's interesting back in the day when great shifts were occurring with european immigrants and southern blacks coming up. These days, Maryland, or at least the DC area, are having great numbers of El Salvadoreans, Ethiopians and every kind of African-African, Vietnamese, Korean, etc. It certainly makes an interesting place.
However, it seems like Baltimore is quite stagnant comparitively.
Maryland is Southern, Appalachian, and Northeastern. Maybe if we all agreed to leave it at Mid-Atlantic (Northern Virginia to New York), which it is almost always considered, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Actually, you're right!
Maryland and DC strongly need to assert their Mid-Atlantic categorization. The term isn't used enough. It was only when I got interested in MD/PA/VA/DC that I became familiar with the term 'Mid-Atlantic' and knew it was a region that I was quite interested in. But outside of the region, it doesn't have much resonation.
If there was a strong sense of Mid-Atlantic identity in the region, it might help define it better.
It needs an imaginitive writer to combine the Appalachians of the region, with the lobster and shellfish of the coastal regions, and all the mix imbetween.
You can see how many of the terms line up. I'd be curious to know where the dividing line is between the two "languages" in Maryland. Allegany County is closer to Pittsburgh than Baltimore but Washington County is closer to Baltimore than Pittsburgh. Neither Cumberland or Hagerstown are exactly halfway.
Side note: You haven't lived until you have seen Dan Marino on a local car dealership commercial in Miami trying to sell cars in Pittsburghese to a population that is largely English as a second language.
"Ya wanna see da cars? Ya wanna see dem again?" (at least he didn't say "Yinz"). Man I wish I could find one of the commercials from the mid-80s before he apparently took speech classes to do Ace Ventura.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Any guesses on the last two, I think added them when you were posting.
) My stance has always been that, in my opinion, there is more evidence tying Maryland to the Northeast than there is tying it to the South. More importantly it's a unique state with it's own culture.
Not really in their truth, but how they either separate Maryland from the Northeast or tie it to the South.
