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Old 01-27-2011, 03:05 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,245 posts, read 5,537,384 times
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Originally Posted by Richard Martin View Post
You need to join the Cocorahs network then. CoCoRaHS - Community Collaborative Rain, Hail & Snow Network.

The deepest reading I could find for Elkridge was 38.3" over Feb 6 & 7, 2010.
i'll check it out.

that was when the first storm hit.
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Old 01-27-2011, 03:13 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
Just checked out some data, apparently the nighttime averages in Baltimore are actually lower than in Philly, but the daytime highs are higher in Baltimore. Definitely interesting, but I think people notice the daytime temperatures more than they do the nighttime temperatures, so IMO you'd still have to consider Baltimore "warmer" than Philly, albeit not by much. I think there was even a thread on here awhile back where someone wanted to retire, and was considering Baltimore over Philly simply because it was just slightly warmer in Baltimore, which still seems odd to me.
i always thought people werre crazy for saying that too; the differences arent noticable.
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Old 01-27-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
When I turn on "Local on the 8s" on the Weather Channel it gives me the current conditions and forecast for Pittsburgh, Erie, Harrisburg, and Scranton. So at least from the perspective of the Weather Channel Western Marylanders have more interest (and perhaps more travel and commuter ties) in what's going on in Pennsylvania (northern) than let's say Richmond, VA (southern) even though Maryland is sandwiched between both states (along with West Virginia).
In Cumberland, our local on the 8s gives us current condititions for our neighbors - Oakland, Grantsville, Hancock MD, Fort Ashby, Romney, Elkins WV, and Bedford and Somerset PA.

I have never seen current conditions for Erie, Harrisburg, or Scranton on my weather channel. Maybe you get dish? Sometimes the dish weather channel doesn't have "true" local on the 8s, but some sort of regional thing that just flashes up sattelite maps from various parts of the country.

In general, Western Maryland's media and commercial sphere extends south, not north. For instance Mineral Co. WV in in our census designated MSA, and our local paper is delivered and carries news stories as far south as Moorefield and Petersburg, WV. Our highschools all play teams from WV, nearly none play anyone local from PA (although that changes this season as Fort Hill has 4 SW PA teams on its schedule for the first time in years. These 4 matches replaced 4 WV teams that were old conference rivals.)

Wincester, VA is the most common commute location (for the small percentage of Allegany Countians that do commute), probably followed by Hagerstown, then PA.

By contrast, our local paper is only circulated into PA as far as Centerville, only about 10 miles from the Mason-Dixon. Our local paper only occasionally covers crime blotter stories from Bedford or Somerset, no sports or government coverage at all. We do get the local CBS from Altoona, but we only got it once CBS picked up the AFC football games, and the local Steeler fans started having panic attacks.

I don't think any of this means Western Maryland isn't similar to SW PA, I think we are. It is just that SW PA has Johnstown and Altoona, and these cities are the main metro areas down to almost the Mason-Dixon. There are no cities the size of Cumberland in WV to our south, so our city takes is their "mecca" for shopping, news, entertainment etc. Although even this is changing as Winchester gets larger and more cosmopolitan. It is sad to think that even in my lifetime Cumberland was a big shot while Winchester was just Apple Town, USA.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:45 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 1,849,313 times
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Thumbs up Different animals in this part of the state, aren't we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
In Cumberland, our local on the 8s gives us current condititions for our neighbors - Oakland, Grantsville, Hancock MD, Fort Ashby, Romney, Elkins WV, and Bedford and Somerset PA.

I have never seen current conditions for Erie, Harrisburg, or Scranton on my weather channel. Maybe you get dish? Sometimes the dish weather channel doesn't have "true" local on the 8s, but some sort of regional thing that just flashes up sattelite maps from various parts of the country.

In general, Western Maryland's media and commercial sphere extends south, not north. For instance Mineral Co. WV in in our census designated MSA, and our local paper is delivered and carries news stories as far south as Moorefield and Petersburg, WV. Our highschools all play teams from WV, nearly none play anyone local from PA (although that changes this season as Fort Hill has 4 SW PA teams on its schedule for the first time in years. These 4 matches replaced 4 WV teams that were old conference rivals.)

Wincester, VA is the most common commute location (for the small percentage of Allegany Countians that do commute), probably followed by Hagerstown, then PA.

By contrast, our local paper is only circulated into PA as far as Centerville, only about 10 miles from the Mason-Dixon. Our local paper only occasionally covers crime blotter stories from Bedford or Somerset, no sports or government coverage at all. We do get the local CBS from Altoona, but we only got it once CBS picked up the AFC football games, and the local Steeler fans started having panic attacks.

I don't think any of this means Western Maryland isn't similar to SW PA, I think we are. It is just that SW PA has Johnstown and Altoona, and these cities are the main metro areas down to almost the Mason-Dixon. There are no cities the size of Cumberland in WV to our south, so our city takes is their "mecca" for shopping, news, entertainment etc. Although even this is changing as Winchester gets larger and more cosmopolitan. It is sad to think that even in my lifetime Cumberland was a big shot while Winchester was just Apple Town, USA.
I'm over in Washington County so I'm sure you have fairly intimate knowledge of Hagerstown and its surroundings. We are very similar; most teams the local high school football teams play are in-county or in Frederick County and then play a couple of teams from the WV Panhandle every season. The Herald-Mail newspaper gives fairly extensive coverage of the tri-state area; Hagerstown is naturally emphasized as the largest city in the region. Due to this primacy, we get a lot of commuters and shoppers from West Virginia and Pennsylvania and seemingly Virginia. I think people in Frederick County tend to skew more toward suburban D.C.

I can literally see on the Weather Channel where the non-geographically specific forecasts starts, but my local information begins then I see the regional forecast with the four PA cities. It also shows a "Getaway Forecast" for Niagara Falls, NY, the Delaware Water Gap, PA, and Atlantic City, NJ. Once again, someone at the Weather Channel assumes that all Western Marylanders go on weekend excursions to the North, and not South to Virginia Beach, the Outer Banks, or the Cumberland Gap. Curious.

Hagerstown has its own NBC affiliate WHAG, but I do not receive it from DirecTV. My satellite subscription may be the reason for getting Pennsylvania info on the Weather Channel but Washington D.C. network affiliates. I am always curious as to why we received only D.C. affiliates on DirecTV and none from Baltimore even though D.C. and Baltimore are equidistant from Washington County. I think it would be cool to get the local Hagerstown NBC affiliate, then let's say Washington's Fox affiliate, Baltimore's ABC affiliate, and Pittsburgh's CBS affiliate. I know packages don't work that way though.

It looks as if there are more Ravens fans than Redskins fans in Hagerstown but local big box retailers seem to be oblivious to the fact that even though this is Maryland, all of the Ravens paraphernalia that gets stocked will not sell because there are more Steelers fans than anything that shop in Hagerstown.

The Wal-Marts in Chambersburg, PA and Martinsburg, WV are both about 22 miles from the Wal-Mart in Hagerstown. I find it interesting that the PA one sells Nittany Lion paraphernalia, the one in Hagerstown sells Terrapins gear, and the one in Martinsburg sells Mountaineer merchandise. Corporations have no pulse on any local allegiances, just that their individual store is located in a particular state so that determines market forces right?

Even though Hagerstown is geographically closer to Baltimore and Washington than Pittsburgh, there appears to be more of a Pennsylvania influence here. I believe Cumberland is exactly halfway between Pittsburgh and Washington or Baltimore. Outside of actually being in Maryland, does anybody in Allegany or Garrett Counties give two shakes about the rest of the state?
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
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Among college grads there is some allegience to UMD or the state of Maryland in general as these people have social/business connections there. Other than that? Not much positive. Any statement concerning "Annapolis" is almost certainly a slur. And the term "down-state" is a somewhat loaded term for everything and anything east of Sideling Hill, including Hagerstown (sorry!). Similar to how the Amish use the term "English" for anyone not Amish regardless of nationality. I would suspect that at least 50% of the adult population of Allegany County has never driven east of Frederick.

Our local retail stores are stocked with mostly WVU stuff, with some UMD and Penn St. thrown in. We have mostly Ravens stuff, then Steelers, and a small amount for Redskin fans (poor souls). The Steelers are far and away the most popular team.

Dish is weird in terms of what local affliates you get (if any) and even weirder with the weather channel. I don't think being in Hagerstown rather than Cumberland is why you get those weird "destination reports," I think it is the local cable providers that "decide" what local on the 8 information you receive. Abset a cable company you just get something generic.

Strangely, my family never vacationed or travelled north. We always went south, to NC, GA, FL, VA beach. I have been to NYC once for about 5 hours, Philly about 4 times (all as an adult after college,) and I have never been to New England.

I have always found Washington County more like Frederick or Carroll County than Allegany and Garrett. You have lots of farms (we don't) commuter opportunities into the DC metro area (we don't) and a steady growth rate in terms of population and wealth (we don't.) You have a couple mountains on your east and west flank, our geography is all mountains. Washington County's small towns are all those short narrow rows, like Clear Spring, Boonsboro, etc, just like the ones in Frederick and Carroll County. The small towns in Allegany County are mostly freestanding frame houses scattered whereever the land wasn't too slopey to build.

Maybe I have trained my eye to see the differences, but outside of Hagerstown and Cumberland being industrial soul mates from 1865-1950, there isn't that much kinship that I can detect. You guys are a valley county, we are a mountain county.

Last edited by westsideboy; 01-27-2011 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Maybe I have trained my eye to see the differences, but outside of Hagerstown and Cumberland being industrial soul mates from 1865-1950, there isn't that much kinship that I can detect. You guys are a valley county, we are a mountain county.
That's interesting that half of Allegany Countians have never been east of Frederick. Do you think many of these residents have been to Pittsburgh or is it just a general aversion to all things urban?

It think you identified the crux of this "Maryland as Southern" Debate. The location of valleys has ultimately determined the cultural spheres of the state. People had a tendency to migrate from north to south down the valleys not come from the Tidewater South across the mountains. My impression of Charles County (for example) was that it was very "Southern" and indistinguishable from anything I have seen in suburban Richmond, Charlotte, or even Atlanta.

If Virginia is considered southern, IMO independent Baltimore is just Norfolk and Richmond merged together as one city. Washington D.C. proper is hard to get a read on as it is planned (its old manufacturing and transportation heritage reeks of Richmond) but both suburban Baltimore and Washington would be easily at home in New Jersey or Connecticut.

The major debate of Southern vs. non-Southern I feel comes from Frederick and the Monocacy Valley. Cities like Frederick and Charlottesville, VA are more or less where the culture of the Tidewater Plantation South intersect with Appalachia. In those cities it is very hard to separate whether D.C. suburban splattering (for lack of a better term) is now the authentic culture.

Hagerstown, Martinsburg, and even Winchester seemed to be more heavily influenced by the "Pennsylvania Dutch" that migrated south through the valley which continued along U.S. Route 11 and later I-81. Maybe the German heritage isn't as prominent anymore and I know people from Pennsylvania would argue with me but none of these cities (Frederick and Charlottesville included) strike me as genteel and Southern. The fact that they are even compact "cities" is a non-Southern characteristic in and of itself.

All of Frederick and Washington Counties aren't valley towns. If you haven't, definitely check out Williamsport but especially Brunswick. Brunswick is very much shaped by its railyard heritage and houses are perched on every slope and angle imaginable.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
That's interesting that half of Allegany Countians have never been east of Frederick. Do you think many of these residents have been to Pittsburgh or is it just a general aversion to all things urban?

It think you identified the crux of this "Maryland as Southern" Debate. The location of valleys has ultimately determined the cultural spheres of the state. People had a tendency to migrate from north to south down the valleys not come from the Tidewater South across the mountains. My impression of Charles County (for example) was that it was very "Southern" and indistinguishable from anything I have seen in suburban Richmond, Charlotte, or even Atlanta.

If Virginia is considered southern, IMO independent Baltimore is just Norfolk and Richmond merged together as one city. Washington D.C. proper is hard to get a read on as it is planned (its old manufacturing and transportation heritage reeks of Richmond) but both suburban Baltimore and Washington would be easily at home in New Jersey or Connecticut.

The major debate of Southern vs. non-Southern I feel comes from Frederick and the Monocacy Valley. Cities like Frederick and Charlottesville, VA are more or less where the culture of the Tidewater Plantation South intersect with Appalachia. In those cities it is very hard to separate whether D.C. suburban splattering (for lack of a better term) is now the authentic culture.

Hagerstown, Martinsburg, and even Winchester seemed to be more heavily influenced by the "Pennsylvania Dutch" that migrated south through the valley which continued along U.S. Route 11 and later I-81. Maybe the German heritage isn't as prominent anymore and I know people from Pennsylvania would argue with me but none of these cities (Frederick and Charlottesville included) strike me as genteel and Southern. The fact that they are even compact "cities" is a non-Southern characteristic in and of itself.

All of Frederick and Washington Counties aren't valley towns. If you haven't, definitely check out Williamsport but especially Brunswick. Brunswick is very much shaped by its railyard heritage and houses are perched on every slope and angle imaginable.
I think you have hit the nail on the head. The absurdity of the argument about whether Maryland is "Southern" or not could be played out in nearly every slave state where the tidewater folk were deeply immerced in plantation culture and heavily in favor of seccession, and the mountain areas, whose settlers came down the valleys, and were mostly pro-union.

It is only the fate of history that the nation's capital had to be stuck in the middle of the our state stopping it from joining its slave state cousins.

The later suburbanization of the middle of the state has erased whatever culture used to be there. My guess is that areas either west of South Mountain or north of Baltimore are influenced much more by the PA Germans than the Plantation South. While everything south of Annapolis is the old South, just overlayed with lots of suburban sprawl. I am not sure what to think of the zone between Baltimore and Annapolis, probably transitional between the two major cultures.

At what point does an area "lose" its culture? I bring this up because NC has tons of transplanted Yankees in the research Tri-Angle and Charlotte, GA has tons of sprawl around the metropolis of Atlanta. Will these states every not be "Southern" because of this, or is there a minimum % of natives that call themselves "Southerners" needed to stay in the club. I remember reading a research report that indicated that 20% of all Marylanders considered themselves living in the South. Not a huge number, but probably reflective of the nativity left in Southern Maryland and the Lower Shore. That data is now somewhere in the bowels of the Wikipedia discussion page on the "Southern United States." That site too has constant bickering over the inclusion of places like MD, KY, MO, WV, basically all the border states. Maryland ended up being striped on the map meaning that it is "sometimes included" as part of the modern South.

Last edited by westsideboy; 01-27-2011 at 08:19 PM..
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Greenville, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
At what point does an area "lose" its culture? I bring this up because NC has tons of transplanted Yankees in the research Tri-Angle
In NC it's the cities that are loosing their southern heritage. You're just as likely not to hear a southern accent as you are to hear it in places like Raleigh, Greenville, Fayetteville, Jacksonville and Wilmington. I can't speak for parts of NC west of there since I haven't been there but I definately know about places in the east. Once you get out of the cities you are back in the old south and it's not often that you don't hear a southern accent. Yankees stick out like a sore thumb in the "country" and they aren't afraid to let you know it.
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
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So that is why all the Northerners move to Cary, aka,

Containment
Area for
Relocated
Yankees



There is nothing like that "you ain't from 'round here, are ya?" look.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Hagerstown
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Spend a lot of time in Wilmington, and it is just amazing how many folks from NJ, NY, PA, OH, and even MD to a small extent are down there now. I think it's more "yankified" than Northern VA. Very interesting dynamics in Wilmington. Good jobs are few and hard to find, yet housing, strip malls, chain restaurant growth is blowing up.
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