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Old 09-12-2011, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,561 posts, read 7,621,816 times
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The thread has wheels as long as new posters come on to express their opinions. If it is just the same people arguing over and over again, it is time to move on. I will say 80/20 isn't unreasonable for the purposes of self-ID, but I would also agree that between 1/3-1/2 the land mass is populated by a majority of self-IDing Southerners. Even those numbers indicate a split identity you won't find in states to our north. How you want to describe that split is mostly semantics.
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Old 09-12-2011, 01:46 PM
 
2,892 posts, read 3,398,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
In school in Cumberland, we were taught Maryland is a "border state." It contains elements of the both the North and South, divided loyalty in the Civil War.
I was taught the same thing in Baltimore in the 1950s. In those days, we didn't see many "outsiders." I remember, though, that a kid from Virginia transferred into my school partway through the year. He seemed exotic -- funny accent and all that (can you imagine someone like me from Baltimore accusing someone else of having a funny accent?). However . . . when I began to travel a little bit, I felt completely at home in North Carolina, and somewhat alienated in New York state. This probably says something about the cultural proclivities of my own immediate family rather than anything more general. Going back a little further, some of my Baltimore ancestors were abolitionists at the time of the Civil war, and some were Southern sympathizers.

Bottom line for me -- Maryland is a border state, having some of the nature of the south, and some of the nature of the north. Marylanders who so desire may revere Jefferson Davis and the Confederate Battle Flag, or choose instead Sherman and Grant. The vast majority probably doesn't care one way or the other, and probably shouldn't.
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Old 09-12-2011, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Berlin, MD
202 posts, read 469,194 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Yeah, Maryland is split - roughly 80% northern, 20% southern. It is not 50/50.

I would describe Maryland as a northern state with southern influences.
I understand how you could feel that way but let me show you I feel about it. As someone who subscribes more to the southern lifestyle and was born and raised in Maryland I don't think it's really fair to simply call MD a northern state if you're not gonna call anything above North Carolina northern, midwestern, etc. MD dips at least 1/3 south on the same level as Virginia and almost half of WV but doesn't have nearly as solid of a southern title like those states have. In my opinion if you're gonna let those states be southern without being necessarily southern in geography I don't see why Maryland can't be the same way. Regardless I leave DE, MD, WV, and so on as border states despite what percentage of the state is supposedly southern or northern.

And also, I figure as long as people still care to discuss their ideas and opinions in a polite friendly matter there's no reason the thread shouldn't be posted on.
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:20 AM
 
Location: PROUD Son of the South in Maryland
386 posts, read 530,795 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotty19 View Post
I was just wondering earlier, what did they teach you all in school about Maryland's status as southern or northern? I remember always being taught that Maryland was both when we talked about the civil war and what not. Most of the teachers in Northern Worcester county where I was taught were from PA or the Western portion of the state so there wasn't any born and raised Eastern shore bias
Is/was it even a relivent topic elsewhere in the state (school wise)? I feel like it was here
Well when I was taught it all depended on the teacher. The good ones called us a border state the bad ones just lazily lumped us as northern. Why do I say bad? Well because we are a southern state but posses some northern culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
You may learn this in school. However, personal observation and experience is a better teacher.

The real question is - what does Maryland today mainly share more similariles with, the north or the south? Or, if someone visits Maryland, then what region will most of the state be more comparable to?

My answer to both questions is the north.
Thats not correct. While state population is is mostly massed in central maryland, its culture does not align with any one region in central maryland. In fact it aligns with every culture in the US and the world. Why? because central maryland is a transient location and doesnt base its culture on any one region. Again I ask anyone to ask people in central maryland where youre from and a high percentage will say from another state. So your as likely to run into a texan as you are to a new yorker or someone from california or georgia or even china or india or russia etc.

You cannot define maryland by its central corridor as it is too transient and its damn near impossible to find real roots in the area. Most families arent even a generation deep.

Now head out west or to southern maryland and youll see the real maryland. Maryland resides in dixie no matter how you slice it, but the REAL maryland contains both northern appalachia and southern culutres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Yeah, Maryland is split - roughly 80% northern, 20% southern. It is not 50/50.

I would describe Maryland as a northern state with southern influences.
Let me correct this for you. 20% Maryland culture and 80% transient/transplant culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Not just you. Virtually everyone else as well.

But after 468 posts...
hasn't this horse been kicked enough?
No, this topic has not been disscussed to its fullest as so many think its a northern state. Its not. Maryland is most definitely a southern state. Just culture wise it contains alot more then just north and south.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotty19 View Post
I understand how you could feel that way but let me show you I feel about it. As someone who subscribes more to the southern lifestyle and was born and raised in Maryland I don't think it's really fair to simply call MD a northern state if you're not gonna call anything above North Carolina northern, midwestern, etc. MD dips at least 1/3 south on the same level as Virginia and almost half of WV but doesn't have nearly as solid of a southern title like those states have. In my opinion if you're gonna let those states be southern without being necessarily southern in geography I don't see why Maryland can't be the same way. Regardless I leave DE, MD, WV, and so on as border states despite what percentage of the state is supposedly southern or northern.

And also, I figure as long as people still care to discuss their ideas and opinions in a polite friendly matter there's no reason the thread shouldn't be posted on.
I agree. I was born and raised in Maryland and most definitely feel more at home traveling south then I do north. Like I said in an earlier post when I head to NC to the lake I feel as if Im right down the street, same goes for my recent trip to Kentucky. Had you blind folded me and put me in either locations I wouldnt be able to tell the difference other then accent as Kentucky deosnt posses the same southern accent as us marylanders. But NC does have a similar accent to us.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,669 posts, read 18,217,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_s View Post
Now head out west or to southern maryland and youll see the real maryland. Maryland resides in dixie no matter how you slice it, but the REAL maryland contains both northern appalachia and southern culutres.
Maryland has 24 counties. Of these, I consider only Charles, St. Mary's, Calvert, Dorchester, Wicomico, Somerset and Worcester to be culturally part of the upper south. They make up less than 10% of Maryland's population.

For the most part, Maryland does not align with the southern U.S. in any way that matters to most people. For example, Maryland votes more liberal than New Jersey and Connecticut. How in the world is that southern?

As for transplants, if they change the culture of a state so much that it takes on the characteristics of a different region, then that state becomes part of that region. This is why northern Virginia is no longer part of the cultural south either, even though most of that state is.
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,561 posts, read 7,621,816 times
Reputation: 2770
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Maryland has 24 counties. Of these, I consider only Charles, St. Mary's, Calvert, Dorchester, Wicomico, Somerset and Worcester to be culturally part of the upper south. They make up less than 10% of Maryland's population.

For the most part, Maryland does not align with the southern U.S. in any way that matters to most people. For example, Maryland votes more liberal than New Jersey and Connecticut. How in the world is that southern?

As for transplants, if they change the culture of a state so much that it takes on the characteristics of a different region, then that state becomes part of that region. This is why northern Virginia is no longer part of the cultural south either, even though most of that state is.
The people it matters to are the Marylanders whose families have self-IDed themselves as Southerns since time immemorial. You wouldn't find one county, let alone 5 or 6 whose citizens self-ID with the South in any of the "Northern" states.

The percentage game doesn't matter much. If you owned a cat that had 90% white fur and 10% black fur, would you call it a white cat or a cat that is both black and white?
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Berlin, MD
202 posts, read 469,194 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
The people it matters to are the Marylanders whose families have self-IDed themselves as Southerns since time immemorial. You wouldn't find one county, let alone 5 or 6 whose citizens self-ID with the South in any of the "Northern" states.
You know what, that's a great point. I never even thought like that. I know there are country people in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and so on but i'm sure none of them identify as southern like a lot of rural Marylanders do.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:26 PM
 
Location: PROUD Son of the South in Maryland
386 posts, read 530,795 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Maryland has 24 counties. Of these, I consider only Charles, St. Mary's, Calvert, Dorchester, Wicomico, Somerset and Worcester to be culturally part of the upper south. They make up less than 10% of Maryland's population.

For the most part, Maryland does not align with the southern U.S. in any way that matters to most people. For example, Maryland votes more liberal than New Jersey and Connecticut. How in the world is that southern?

As for transplants, if they change the culture of a state so much that it takes on the characteristics of a different region, then that state becomes part of that region. This is why northern Virginia is no longer part of the cultural south either, even though most of that state is.
Well I guess you need to get out to western maryland(not the pan handle) as they align with southern culture as well. I have family there and southern maryland and the culture is quite similar. Which shows maryland split by the transient central corridor.

As for voting liberal, well my families who are rooted and have several generations in maryland and everyone we know who has similar deep generations here are conservative. Its the transient central that makes up the main population and they are from everywhere mostly california and up north. But you say that as if the south ONLY votes conservative...

But if you wanna go historical the south was democratic until the 60s or 70s...

Honestly if you wanna classify maryland by a population that comes and goes fine. But no matter how you slice it maryland is fully in dixie no matter how you slice it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
The people it matters to are the Marylanders whose families have self-IDed themselves as Southerns since time immemorial. You wouldn't find one county, let alone 5 or 6 whose citizens self-ID with the South in any of the "Northern" states.

The percentage game doesn't matter much. If you owned a cat that had 90% white fur and 10% black fur, would you call it a white cat or a cat that is both black and white?
Great analogy. But it is sad that the main population of our great state is in the central corridor and are come and go at best. Not to say all central marylanders are transient.
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:37 AM
 
Location: Greenville, NC
2,051 posts, read 4,844,846 times
Reputation: 1087
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_s View Post
But no matter how you slice it maryland is fully in dixie no matter how you slice it.
Let me assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Southernors consider Maryland a northern state. Someone likened the Maryland accent as almost like North Carolina's accent. It's not even close. I was born and grew up in the Annapolis area. I can't get the hang of the North Carolina accent and Lord knows, I've tried. It's just against my education and upbringing to slur words the way they do. Any place with "ville" in the name is pronounced as vule. It drives me crazy.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Berlin, MD
202 posts, read 469,194 times
Reputation: 126
There is no 1 "Maryland" accent. Me, my family, and local friends sound nothing like people I know from Baltimore. Not saying everyone down here thats's local speaks "southern" but a lot do.

Last edited by Dotty19; 09-16-2011 at 09:42 AM..
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