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Old 09-26-2011, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 988,014 times
Reputation: 175

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj View Post
I see absolutely no difference between the eastern shore of MD and Delaware and southern Jersey. They are identical.
How can I reason with someone who thinks Maryland's Eastern Shore is "identical" to Southern NJ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj View Post
And, read my post. I did say that eastern MD has most of MD's southern routes and allied with VA. I wish folks would read more accurately before assuming things.
Woah, hold on now- first you claim that the Eastern Shore is "identical" to New Jersey, then you claim it is "allied" with VA? Can't have it both ways. I definitely "read accurately"- I believe you are confusing yourself with your own inaccuracies.

(PS- you do know that when Marylanders reference "the Eastern Shore" we are talking about MD's entire portion of the Delmarva peninsula, not Ocean City, right? When we say "Shore" here, it is not the same kind of "Shore" [a literal ocean shore] people talk about in NJ and PA.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj View Post
Don't forget that MD was originally a Catholic colony and has a large presense of Catholic immigration. Hence, Little Italy and it's many Catholic churches throughout the city. Also, MD has a very large Jewish population; one of the largest in the country. Both of these demographics link parts of MD to the northeast.
As someone else said, have you ever heard of a place called Louisiana? This goes for both Catholicism and Italian immigrants (my maternal grandmother was an immigrant from Sicily who immigrated to New Orleans). Jewish people are throughout the eastern seaboard and the West. Jewish people were not originally a large part of the state's population. They are of more recent immigration- nothing like Catholics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj View Post
Not to familiar with any southern city with a "Little Italy" neighborhood.
Okay, I am not familiar with any northern city whose residents pelted bricks and fired shots at Unionists. I am not familiar with any northern city whose cultural roots are based in the state's native African American population largely made of free slaves from within its borders. I am certainly not aware of any northeastern city whose current population is more than double African American than any other race.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
388 posts, read 680,697 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitek View Post
Maryland is a border state, but so to is Kentucky, West Viginia, and Missouri. However, the just because they were border states does not except them from being southern. So are you saying that West Virginia and Kentucky aren't southern because they were border states? I been to those states and I defintely beg to differ. Also, if you wanted to use politics as an example of northern traits, which I don't; West Virginia as a border state voted red in the 2008 election and is very conservative in Politics. Baltimore is not like Philadelphia. Philly is more NYC than Baltimore: Taller, denser buildings, markets much more reminiscent of New York or Boston for example, along with a real subway system. They are worlds apart in cuture and the history of these two cities couldnt be much different. The african american accents in Baltimore are no way similar to Philly or any part in the northeast at all. The restaurant thing is not B.S. as I'm speaking with expericence living in Brooklyn, Connecticut, and having going to other places in the northeast as well as the south(Maryland included). How many people in Maryland flock to local Pizzeria shops, hoagie and hero shops, latin cruisie restaurants, or West Indian/Jamician restaurants? Northeasten markets such as C-Town and Stop and Shop are non existent in Maryland. I'm sorry but no ones that I know thats from Connecticut or even New York indetifies Maryland as northeasten. I even met and know plenty of marylanders who identify as southern and sees New York, Connecticut, New Jersey as a complety different world. Yes Charlotte, Raleigh, Austin, Atlanta is the new south but so is Nova, Washington D.C. and Baltimore. I consider it all the new south as one poster stated its not the 1800s anymore but 2011 and changed.
I agree that a border state can be Southern as well. Kentucky is, without a doubt, Southern. But don't even try to school me on West Virginia. I go to its flagship university and half my family lives there. And, as it turns out, only 25% of West Virginians consider themselves Southerners. 45% consider their community the South. West Virginia is very mountainous with four full seasons. It is extremely industrial and in the rust belt like its midwestern neighbors. A large portion of the state has a Pittsburgh-influenced accent. Heck, the Northern Panhandle is north of the Mason-Dixon Line. West Virginia may be conservative and voted for McCain in 2008, but it is definitely majority Democrat, largely because West Virginians feel strongly about workers' rights and are very pro-union. There are parts of the state where being a Republican is just unheard of. Had Hillary won the primary, you better believe she would have won West Virginia in the general election. Most people in WV don't consider themselves Southerners although it may seem pretty darn Southern to some outsiders. Using the same data, 19% of Marylanders consider themselves Southerners and 40% consider their community the South. And have you ever been to Baltimore? Baltimore is tall, dense, and has markets too. Philly's accent definitely has a lot in common with the NY accent (not nearly as much as inaccurately portrayed in movies) but it has much more in common with the Baltimore accent--at least among white people. That I guarantee. And I'm sorry but there's just no way you could call Baltimore "new" anything. It's been a major city for as long as New York. By contrast, Atlanta has seen its rise only in the past several decades. As for the restaurant thing, do you really think people are going into chain restaurants to eat their blue crab?? No. And out in Western Maryland, local places like D'Atri's are household names.

EDIT: Just to add something I forgot, like I said, I go to West Virginia University. A huge percentage of our student population comes from Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and, to a lesser extent, New York. Nearly everyone I've met from those places doesn't consider West Virginia (at least the northern half) or Maryland to be Southern. And let me reiterate that I am not trying to say that Maryland is 100% Northern. I know better. But I am saying that it is not 100% Southern either. You could never make a valid argument either way. Period.

Last edited by drs72; 09-26-2011 at 03:24 PM..
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:16 PM
 
Location: PROUD Son of the South in Maryland
386 posts, read 550,419 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
How can I reason with someone who thinks Maryland's Eastern Shore is "identical" to Southern NJ?



Woah, hold on now- first you claim that the Eastern Shore is "identical" to new Jersey, then you claim it is "allied" with VA? Can't have it both ways. I definitely "read accurately"- I believe you are confusing yourself with your own inaccuracies.



As someone else said, have you ever heard of a place called Louisiana? This goes for both Catholicism and Italian immigrants (my maternal grandmother was an immigrant from Sicily who immigrated to New Orleans). Jewish people are throughout the eastern seaboard and the West. Jewish people were not originally a large part of the state's population. They are of more recent immigration- nothing like Catholics.



Okay, I am not familiar with any northern city whose residents pelted bricks and fired shots at Unionists. I am not familiar with any northern city whose cultural roots are based in the state's native African American population largely made of free slaves from within its borders. I am certainly not aware of any northeastern city whose current population is more than double African American than any other race.
Yessir! We were the first state to draw real blood in the war of northern aggression. Just for those nay sayers who thinks Baltimore wasnt or isnt a southern city that was the place of the first ground altercation between north and south.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:19 PM
 
Location: PROUD Son of the South in Maryland
386 posts, read 550,419 times
Reputation: 189
Oh yeah and on the catholic settlement debate the protestants also had HUGE settlements up north. Maybe the puritans or Quakers come to mind...
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 988,014 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_s View Post
Yessir! We were the first state to draw real blood in the war of northern aggression. Just for those nay sayers who thinks Baltimore wasnt or isnt a southern city that was the place of the first ground altercation between north and south.

I can't for the life of me understand why this isn't more widely known. The Pratt Street riots WERE THE FIRST BLOOD DRAWN in the war. Why is Sumter so widely recognized as the "first shots", I really don't know to be honest.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:23 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,235 posts, read 19,531,226 times
Reputation: 12986
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_s View Post
Being as I have lived in MD my whole life his statement about the majority of the state being rural is correct. The main population lives between dc and baltimore.

If you travel outside of the dc balt corridor its nothign but farm and small towns.
And that makes Maryland more rural and different from most other northeast states how exactly?

The majority of New York, Pennsylvania, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine is more rural than Maryland.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 988,014 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by drs72 View Post
And have you ever been to Baltimore? Baltimore is tall, dense.
Okay, I take absolute exception to this claim. Have you ever actually been in downtown Philadelphia? The development patterns, density, and building heights are nothing like Baltimore. It is very much like New York. The downtown of Philly is nothing short of an enormous urban canyon. The first thing that struck me when visiting Philly for the first time was this difference with Baltimore. You have to crane and nearly break your neck to see the tops of buildings (in a car) in downtown Philly almost as much as in NY. You don't get that in Baltimore. There is a much lower and spread-out profile when compared to northeastern cities. That much I know.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 988,014 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
And that makes Maryland more rural and different from most other northeast states how exactly?

The majority of New York, Pennsylvania, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine is more rural than Maryland.
I have to agree with this even though I am not in the "Maryland is northeastern" camp. Our state is entirely overpopulated and exploding at the seams with suburban development and traffic. Even once semi rural and rural areas have been impacted. It's sad, honestly.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
388 posts, read 680,697 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
Okay, I take absolute exception to this claim. Have you ever actually been in downtown Philadelphia? The development patterns, density, and building heights are nothing like Baltimore. It is very much like New York. The downtown of Philly is nothing short of an enormous urban canyon. The first thing that struck me when visiting Philly for the first time was this difference with Baltimore. You have to crane and nearly break your neck to see the tops of buildings (in a car) in downtown Philly almost as much as in NY. You don't get that in Baltimore. There is a much lower and spread-out profile when compared to northeastern cities. That much I know.
I actually have not been to downtown Philadelphia. Baltimore does have a skyline but, even if Philly has more of the "urban canyon" feel, you'd have to agree that Baltimore is dense. It is a real city. These cities popping up down south like Charlotte and Atlanta are nothing but sprawling, suburban messes. Cul-de-sac neighborhoods are considered "in the city" down there. No walkability whatsoever.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:53 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,881 posts, read 42,105,179 times
Reputation: 43291
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_s View Post
Yessir! We were the first state to draw real blood in the war of northern aggression. Just for those nay sayers who thinks Baltimore wasnt or isnt a southern city that was the place of the first ground altercation between north and south.

There ya go, bringing up The Recent Unpleasantness.
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