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Old 03-21-2012, 11:25 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
582 posts, read 740,267 times
Reputation: 347

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcountryboy View Post
.

Someone I was talking to today, who is from Lancaster PA, was insisting to me that Baltimore was a suburb of DC, that Maryland was totally southern, that it had no "hicks" or "rednecks" in the entire state, and that it was "an insignificant chunk of land between DC and PA... What?

thank goodness half the population of mount airy is hicks and rednecks and im proud of it
I love our hicks and rednecks.

It's funny here when I meet NYC or Philly people: the same group of people they call "rednecks" I call "city folks". Two different perspectives on the world I guess.

Last edited by Tezcatlipoca; 03-21-2012 at 11:56 PM..
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Mount. Airy
53 posts, read 87,350 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
I love our hicks and rednecks.

It's funny here when I meet NYC or Philly people: the same group of people they call "rednecks" I call "city folks". Two different perspectives on the world I guess.
that is funny the difference between a city person and a country person
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:08 PM
 
Location: PROUD Son of the South in Maryland
386 posts, read 530,895 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Martin View Post
Actually the south starts at the Mason Dixon line. Washington is currently being occupied by Damn Yankees.
Amen.

About sums up why people call us northerners. Its the asscrack from dc to baltimore (really the stretch to richmond) where the yankees infest/occupy. People 9/10 times visit this section of maryland and never go west or east and say "well Maryland is not southern". Hmm I guess next time Im in the following cities Atlanta, Memphis, Charlotte, New Orleans, Richmond etc I determine their southern-ness.

If we are going to continue to determine states southern status by transplant zones then the following states are definitely no longer southern as well: Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Kentucky as they all have large yankee infestations just like we do. I just hope the haters catch my drift this time, but like the past Im sure they wont because they obviously dont know southern appalachia or coastal southern cultures and dialects that run very strong on either sides of the yankee asscrack that is the i95 corridor from baltimore to richmond. Fortunately there are still lots of us native southerners that live in those areas to remind the damn yankees where they are. This is dixie and yall better watch your step around here.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:55 PM
 
2,366 posts, read 2,017,221 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Martin View Post
Actually the south starts at the Mason Dixon line. Washington is currently being occupied by Damn Yankees.
I disagree. The Mason-Dixie Line was create to solve a border dispute between two British colonies, approximately 100 years before the Civil War. Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon were the surveyors who came up with the boundary, hence the name Mason-Dixon.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
1,154 posts, read 3,852,783 times
Reputation: 699
lol @ white people complaining about 'damn Yankees' occupying their areas. Montana has the same issues, with the locals complaining about out of staters (Californians, mainly) moving in and changing things. Imagine how the Indians feel.

Anyway, the point is - I figure we ought to factor human migration patterns into any analysis of 'southernness' if it is to be intellectually honest. Well are we talking about being 'geographically southern' or culturally southern? Culturally, I presume, because to be 'geographically southern' is basically meaningless. Mexico is geographically southern and so is Australia. So is Miami.

Geography can't change but culture is totally dynamic. The culture of the North (both Northeast and Midwest) was shaped by the waves of German, Irish, and Italian immigrants from Europe during the 19th and early 20th centuries. Nevermind that the only reason we're having this discussion is because white migrants moved here en masse in colonial days, and those migrants vastly changed the cultural fabric of the continent.

If you want to say that Maryland is southern because of history, well, hmm... maybe... maybe it used to be culturally southern during the period between the 17th and early 20th centuries. That's all people mean when they say MD is historically southern, even if they don't realize it.

As for saying that Maryland is geographically southern because of the Mason-Dixon line, well, the M-D line was a political border between MD and PA and between the slave and free states, so that makes no sense really. Maybe you could use some sort of climatic or ecological transition line to differentiate the geographic north from south - many of these lines put MD in the south. But like I said it's totally meaningless in and of itself.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:48 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
582 posts, read 740,267 times
Reputation: 347
Baltimore Sun: Are we Northern? Southern? Yes.

Just something that turned up.

Of my fellow Marylanders here in the PA Alleghenies, all of them consider themselves southern except one from Silver Spring. Only one, however, constantly professes his southern-ness while the others will simply object if someone calls Maryland northern.

Oh, and back when I lived in SoMD it wasn't just white people complaining about "damn yankees".
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
388 posts, read 659,569 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMTman View Post
lol @ white people complaining about 'damn Yankees' occupying their areas. Montana has the same issues, with the locals complaining about out of staters (Californians, mainly) moving in and changing things. Imagine how the Indians feel.

Anyway, the point is - I figure we ought to factor human migration patterns into any analysis of 'southernness' if it is to be intellectually honest. Well are we talking about being 'geographically southern' or culturally southern? Culturally, I presume, because to be 'geographically southern' is basically meaningless. Mexico is geographically southern and so is Australia. So is Miami.

Geography can't change but culture is totally dynamic. The culture of the North (both Northeast and Midwest) was shaped by the waves of German, Irish, and Italian immigrants from Europe during the 19th and early 20th centuries. Nevermind that the only reason we're having this discussion is because white migrants moved here en masse in colonial days, and those migrants vastly changed the cultural fabric of the continent.

If you want to say that Maryland is southern because of history, well, hmm... maybe... maybe it used to be culturally southern during the period between the 17th and early 20th centuries. That's all people mean when they say MD is historically southern, even if they don't realize it.

As for saying that Maryland is geographically southern because of the Mason-Dixon line, well, the M-D line was a political border between MD and PA and between the slave and free states, so that makes no sense really. Maybe you could use some sort of climatic or ecological transition line to differentiate the geographic north from south - many of these lines put MD in the south. But like I said it's totally meaningless in and of itself.
You raise some valid points. Regarding climate and ecology, I'd argue that we are the dividing line. The Appalachian portion of the state aside, the rest of the state has a hot and (extremely) humid summer with relatively mild winters. Baltimore can go for several years with little snowfall and then get absolutely hammered by snowstorms one year. Similarly, parts of the state are largely populated by northern flora while other parts consist mainly of southern flora. Compare Garrett County with Worcester County in this regard and you'll quickly see the difference.

You mention that culture is dynamic and, while I'd certainly agree, there are a few things that I would like to point out. Without question, the central region of Maryland lost a substantial amount of its local and regional identity as it saw exponential population growth. This region is far and away the most populous part of our state. Therefore, the vast majority of Marylanders are living in areas where the original local culture has been diluted beyond recognition. However, geographically, most of Maryland still retains much of the local culture that has existed there for centuries and that culture, at the very least, has some noticeably Southern characteristics. The problem is that you are much less likely to meet someone from those places because less people live there and, when people travel through those places, they are usually just passing through on their way to Ocean City, Deep Creek Lake, or some out-of-state destination.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:36 PM
 
Location: PROUD Son of the South in Maryland
386 posts, read 530,895 times
Reputation: 189
Climate wise maryland has 2-3 climate zones. Id say closer to 3 being: bellow (south east) of the fall line, between the fall line and say fredrick and pure 100% southern appalachia panhandle/western maryland. I live a hair west of the fall line and we got a whooping 1in maybe of snow this past winter, while those much farther west in the hills got a bit more and areas in PA got alot more then all of us. There is a good portion of the state that falls on the side of the fall line that has similar climate to states such as NC, SC, north east GA etc. The fall line is what separates the southern appalachia weather and the south east weather of our great state.

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Old 04-14-2012, 06:48 PM
 
Location: PROUD Son of the South in Maryland
386 posts, read 530,895 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMTman View Post
lol @ white people complaining about 'damn Yankees' occupying their areas. Montana has the same issues, with the locals complaining about out of staters (Californians, mainly) moving in and changing things. Imagine how the Indians feel.

Anyway, the point is - I figure we ought to factor human migration patterns into any analysis of 'southernness' if it is to be intellectually honest. Well are we talking about being 'geographically southern' or culturally southern? Culturally, I presume, because to be 'geographically southern' is basically meaningless. Mexico is geographically southern and so is Australia. So is Miami.

Geography can't change but culture is totally dynamic. The culture of the North (both Northeast and Midwest) was shaped by the waves of German, Irish, and Italian immigrants from Europe during the 19th and early 20th centuries. Nevermind that the only reason we're having this discussion is because white migrants moved here en masse in colonial days, and those migrants vastly changed the cultural fabric of the continent.

If you want to say that Maryland is southern because of history, well, hmm... maybe... maybe it used to be culturally southern during the period between the 17th and early 20th centuries. That's all people mean when they say MD is historically southern, even if they don't realize it.

As for saying that Maryland is geographically southern because of the Mason-Dixon line, well, the M-D line was a political border between MD and PA and between the slave and free states, so that makes no sense really. Maybe you could use some sort of climatic or ecological transition line to differentiate the geographic north from south - many of these lines put MD in the south. But like I said it's totally meaningless in and of itself.
The Mason Dixon line has been a dividing line from south and north much more recently then the civil war. Sure in the 17th century it was a dispute between the penns and calverts, but once established it was a defining line in colonial times from the Old south to the northern colonies.

It also was a defining line in the 19th century showing not only slave states, but also cultural boundaries. Where was the first non artillery battle between south and north? Baltimore. Maryland was also apart of the solid south until late 1950's early 1960's when the federal government expanded and we got a HUGE influx of yankees coming down here.

Did the mason dixon line stop being a meaningful border between south and north after the solid south broke up? No. Still even now its referenced not only by many of us southerners, but also in music and culture. Ill say it now just as I have said it many times go north or east of that line (minus very southern DE) and your in a totally different culture. Granted some who live close to the line may feel slightly different, but for me I feel like I need a passport. The culture divide gets worse the more north you go. Although PA is IMHO doesnt belong culturally to the northeast minus the eastern 1/3rd of the state.

So yeah the line means something even today. The only people who I see saying the line means nothing are yankees and elitist southerners who like to remain ignorant to history/culture.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:09 PM
 
2,366 posts, read 2,017,221 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_s View Post
The Mason Dixon line has been a dividing line from south and north much more recently then the civil war. Sure in the 17th century it was a dispute between the penns and calverts, but once established it was a defining line in colonial times from the Old south to the northern colonies.

It also was a defining line in the 19th century showing not only slave states, but also cultural boundaries. Where was the first non artillery battle between south and north? Baltimore. Maryland was also apart of the solid south until late 1950's early 1960's when the federal government expanded and we got a HUGE influx of yankees coming down here.

Did the mason dixon line stop being a meaningful border between south and north after the solid south broke up? No. Still even now its referenced not only by many of us southerners, but also in music and culture. Ill say it now just as I have said it many times go north or east of that line (minus very southern DE) and your in a totally different culture. Granted some who live close to the line may feel slightly different, but for me I feel like I need a passport. The culture divide gets worse the more north you go. Although PA is IMHO doesnt belong culturally to the northeast minus the eastern 1/3rd of the state.

So yeah the line means something even today. The only people who I see saying the line means nothing are yankees and elitist southerners who like to remain ignorant to history/culture.
Well, Atlantic City, NJ is directly east of Baltimore. I'll stick with the former purpose of the Mason-Dixon line.

Last edited by Phyxius; 04-14-2012 at 08:23 PM..
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