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Old 05-21-2012, 07:31 AM
 
710 posts, read 814,379 times
Reputation: 1495

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
That would be fair for the state as a whole, I'd say, but, If you've ever been to the lower Eastern Shore or Southern Maryland and think they are Northern... I'm not sure on which planet that conclusion could be reached.
a planet that is mapped with latitudes for one.

from a geography standpoint the southern portion could be considered mid-atlantic at best, the rest is northeastern. cuisine, speech patterns and history are something else. you may consider yourself a maryland southerner and thats fine by me, more power to you but trying to convince everyone else that any part of your state is ''south'' will always be a hard sell.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 956,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsereed View Post
a planet that is mapped with latitudes for one.

from a geography standpoint the southern portion could be considered mid-atlantic at best, the rest is northeastern. cuisine, speech patterns and history are something else. you may consider yourself a maryland southerner and thats fine by me, more power to you but trying to convince everyone else that any part of your state is ''south'' will always be a hard sell.
Number one, going by latitude of the continental US, Maryland is CLEARLY southern in that regard. Please, pull out an accurate US map and find the midpoint (from the tip of Florida to the tip of Washington).

Second, even if that weren't the case, we actually ARE talking about culture, cuisine, speech patterns, and history. That's what makes a place Southern (with a capital "S"). And no, it actually is a very easy "sell". Most people agree that Southern Maryland and the Lower Eastern Shore ARE Southern. Even the most ardent "Maryland is NOT Southern" folks on this board agree with that. How is that debatable? Please tell me how you could call these two regions of Maryland (SoMD and the lower E. Shore) Northern. Please give me a list of Northern vs. Southern traits. If you are calling the Lower Eastern Shore Northern, then, I am sorry, you have no idea what Southern means.


By the way, you live in Missouri.... have you ever actually spent a SUBSTANTIAL amount of time in these two places? I have been here for 40+ years.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:21 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
582 posts, read 741,145 times
Reputation: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsereed View Post
a planet that is mapped with latitudes for one.

from a geography standpoint the southern portion could be considered mid-atlantic at best, the rest is northeastern. cuisine, speech patterns and history are something else. you may consider yourself a maryland southerner and thats fine by me, more power to you but trying to convince everyone else that any part of your state is ''south'' will always be a hard sell.
You're really stretching here.
Geographically SoMD and the E. Shore are southern.
Climate-wise they are southern.
In cuisine they are southern.
In speech they are southern.
In history they are southern.
There's absolutely no debate on this point.

The rest of Maryland is geographically southern, and culturally Mid-Atlantic with some southernness. (Maryland isn't so much a northern state with southern influence but a previously southern state with overwhelming northern influence.)

While I don't argue with the Mid-Atlantic classification, to me Maryland is still undefinable. True, only 1/3 of the state is clearly southern. However, the clearly Mid-Atlantic regions of the state have definite little bits of southernness, and Maryland's cultural similarity to the North only makes it up about halfway (if that much) into PA and NJ, above that it's quite different from Maryland.

Folks here in the Altoona area seem to believe that Maryland is the south though i've never brought up the topic. They seem to blindly despise Maryland too...
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:57 PM
 
710 posts, read 814,379 times
Reputation: 1495
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
Number one, going by latitude of the continental US, Maryland is CLEARLY southern in that regard. Please, pull out an accurate US map and find the midpoint (from the tip of Florida to the tip of Washington).

Second, even if that weren't the case, we actually ARE talking about culture, cuisine, speech patterns, and history. That's what makes a place Southern (with a capital "S"). And no, it actually is a very easy "sell". Most people agree that Southern Maryland and the Lower Eastern Shore ARE Southern. Even the most ardent "Maryland is NOT Southern" folks on this board agree with that. How is that debatable? Please tell me how you could call these two regions of Maryland (SoMD and the lower E. Shore) Northern. Please give me a list of Northern vs. Southern traits. If you are calling the Lower Eastern Shore Northern, then, I am sorry, you have no idea what Southern means.


By the way, you live in Missouri.... have you ever actually spent a SUBSTANTIAL amount of time in these two places? I have been here for 40+ years.
the FLA/GA border is exactly twice as far from Balt. as the US/Canada one so MD is clearly in the upper half of the country, no question about that.

now lets say some widget plant in Alabama relocated to some small town in Iowa and all of the workers went along effectively making that same small town more than 50% alabaman. now to me that place still wouldnt be the south...

most will never see MD and DE as south no matter how many gallons of sweet tea yall drink.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 956,256 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsereed View Post
the FLA/GA border is exactly twice as far from Balt. as the US/Canada one so MD is clearly in the upper half of the country, no question about that.

now lets say some widget plant in Alabama relocated to some small town in Iowa and all of the workers went along effectively making that same small town more than 50% alabaman. now to me that place still wouldnt be the south...

most will never see MD and DE as south no matter how many gallons of sweet tea yall drink.
What can't you understand? Like I said- LOOK AT AN ENTIRE US MAP. The halfway point between the tip of Washington State and Florida is the center. Maryland falls below the center. It is in the SOUTHERN part of the United States geographically. (Oh, and if going by your example, so is Richmond, VA, so is that city now "Northern" too?)

You are so simple-minded. You totally did NOT read my post and the post before yours. Maryland is southern geographically and historically. It is presently Mid-Atlantic as a whole in culture WITH two distinctly Southern regions. Read that 15 times if you need to to comprehend. The Southern culture in these regions of Maryland is not transplanted. It's the reverse as Tezcatlipoca pointed out. It is a former Southern state with HUGE transplanted Northern culture......And, I don't drink sweet tea often, and I never claimed myself as a Southerner, though I'm not a Northerner either (I live in the Baltimore suburbs). If you think all Southerners drink sweet tea, you are ignorant. Thanks.

Oh, almost forgot, back to my previous question...you're a Missourian, please elaborate on your extensive experiences inside the regions of my state of 40+ years from which you've garnered your opinions.

Last edited by MDguy99; 05-21-2012 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,188 posts, read 21,767,384 times
Reputation: 6116
Hmmmm....while some bring up the Mason-Dixon line, many Southerns mark the 36˚30' parallel as the true demarcation zone between North and South as this was the line that was drawn during the Missouri Compromise. All states south of the 36˚30' joined the Confederacy except for California. Virginia, being North of 36˚30' joined the South, and Kentucky remained neutral until the South invaded and tried to take over the State, in which case Kentucky as for help from the Union.

Now, even though Maryland was a slave State and wanted to join the Confederacy, outside of slavery, what else did Maryland have in common with Southern Culture? And if Maryland is a Southern State, then why not Delaware?

The idea that the southern half of Maryland and Eastern Shore are Southern seems ridiculous as Maryland is a small state to begin with and these two geographical locations are only but a sliver. It's like trying to argue that Rhode Island is not part of New England because it shares a water boundary with Long Island (New York. No one in New England really cares for Connecticut).

Seeing as how Marylanders wanted to join the Confederacy back in the day, I suppose by that criteria alone Maryland could be considered a Southern State, but Maryland was about 50/50 with slaves/free blacks. However, the Confederacy was about creating a white state-hood for white Americans that was ran by white Americans. It had nothing to do with certain styles of culinary dishes, certain beverages, public mannerisms, etc. It was simply about building a white country.

And, I have been to the Eastern Shore and Southern Maryland. To me, the food is not Southern unless you are using fried fish as the criteria. Maryland was a Crown Colony (ruled by royalty) until, what, 1715? Up until that point it had more in common the U.K. than it did with any other Colonies. After the Civil War, Maryland had a huge influx of Greek, Polish, and Russian immigration (and some Germans and Italians, too). These groups heavily influenced the local cuisine.

Yes, there is some Southern influence in the cuisine, but the cuisine is not Southern.

Climate? Maryland is humid, but not brutally humid like in the South. Maryland also gets snow. Does it snow in Alabama?
Speech? How so?
History? Nope, not really.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:39 PM
 
710 posts, read 814,379 times
Reputation: 1495
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
You are so simple-minded. , you are ignorant.
this alone tells me I owned you big time lol
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 956,256 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsereed View Post
this alone tells me I owned you big time lol
Wow... what a comeback. Couldn't even address one fact I provided? Nice. Probably best to stay in forums in which you actually are completely familiar with someone's state before trying to one-up them with nonsense arguments.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Arkansas
374 posts, read 657,972 times
Reputation: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
You listed a bunch of states and asked "which doesn't belong here." I gave you the answer and the reason why I picked it.

Did you have a point in asking the question?
Are you honestly saying Maryland is more of a Southern state than Texas? That's funny.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 956,256 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post

Climate? Maryland is humid, but not brutally humid like in the South. Maryland also gets snow. Does it snow in Alabama?
No, BUT VIRGINIA AND TENNESSEE sure do! The South is not just the Deep South, hon.

Climate zones:




Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Speech? How so?
You are obviously not familiar with linguistics research.



Every Southern American English map includes Southern Maryland and the Eastern Shore. They are coastal/ Tidewater Southern. Please familiarize yourself with Smith Island, MD and Tangier, VA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
History? Nope, not really.
Please tell me you are not serious. Slavery. Tobacco cash crop. Plantation culture. One of the ORIGINAL SOUTHERN COLONIES (again, go and look, every single academic resource shows Maryland as a Southern colony)






How can one argue with someone who thinks she/ he is stating facts but is not?

Somebody else can take up the battle on the rest of this one's post - should be pretty simple. Don't have the time to go into every detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ark90 View Post
Are you honestly saying Maryland is more of a Southern state than Texas? That's funny.
I would argue historically yes, present day, no.

Last edited by MDguy99; 05-21-2012 at 03:19 PM..
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