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Old 05-23-2012, 11:13 AM
 
Location: PROUD Son of the South in Maryland
386 posts, read 531,896 times
Reputation: 189

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That I can accept. But being lumped in with NJ and NY is the reason why I dont refer to myself as "from the midatlantic".
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,188 posts, read 21,782,674 times
Reputation: 6116
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post

It seems that people are trying to make Maryland more southern than it really is.
Yup. And I'll write it again, why? If someone cares that much than they should just move to the deep South.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_s View Post
As to how I refer to what region I live in, well that is easy for yall to assume. I say the south. Would I ever say mid atlantic is the region I live in? Sure if it was defined correctly. But its not so I dont.
What part of the U.S. is defined correctly? Why is Idaho a part of the Pacific Northwest? Why is Oregon? Why isn't California the Pacific Southwest? Why is Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico...and Utah....the Southwest, but not California? Why does the Midwest contain States that are on the northern half of the country and lie more to the East? Why are Texas and Oklahoma sometimes included in the Southwest? Is Florida Southern or East Coast? Why is the South on the lower half of the Eastern side? Why is Texas sometimes considered Southern, and sometimes not? And so on.

The Mid Atlantic according to the U.S. Census is NY, Penn, and NJ. It is for classification purposes. The Census places Maryland in the South Atlantic.

Dixie is not an official region. It is like saying rural, or mountain.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 957,354 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Yup. And I'll write it again, why? If someone cares that much than they should just move to the deep South.

The same could be said for many here who are trying to make MD more Northeastern than it really is. If someone cares that much, she/he should just move to New England.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,188 posts, read 21,782,674 times
Reputation: 6116
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
The same could be said for many here who are trying to make MD more Northeastern than it really is. If someone cares that much, she/he should just move to New England.
Yes, true. However, my argument isn't how close Maryland is to the Northeast, but who far it is from the South. People cite commonalities between Maryland and the South, and outside of Maryland being a part of the Old South (original Slave States), I do not see it from my perspective.

Of secondary concern is the issue of some people wanting Maryland to be Southern. I can understand appreciating certain, perhaps many, aspects of Southern life and culture, but I don't buy into the notion that those who are the Sons of the Confederacy, The South will Rise Again, The Confederacy, etc. is anything less than the War is not over. Historically speaking, I do not see how anyone who is concerned for such things outside of a basic historical interest is not [secretly] racists or xenophobic.

How about this, I drive around Maryland with a giant picture of Chamberlain on the side or back. How would Marylander's react?
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 957,354 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Yes, true. However, my argument isn't how close Maryland is to the Northeast, but who far it is from the South. People cite commonalities between Maryland and the South, and outside of Maryland being a part of the Old South (original Slave States), I do not see it from my perspective.

Of secondary concern is the issue of some people wanting Maryland to be Southern. I can understand appreciating certain, perhaps many, aspects of Southern life and culture, but I don't buy into the notion that those who are the Sons of the Confederacy, The South will Rise Again, The Confederacy, etc. is anything less than the War is not over. Historically speaking, I do not see how anyone who is concerned for such things outside of a basic historical interest is not [secretly] racists or xenophobic.

How about this, I drive around Maryland with a giant picture of Chamberlain on the side or back. How would Marylander's react?
Okay, flip the "concern".

The other argument isn't how Maryland is close to the South, but how far it is from the true Northeast. People cite commonalities between Maryland and the Northeast, and outside the Baltimore-Washington corridor (which still has some hits of its Southern past anyway), many don't see that from their perspective.

And, of secondary concern to people on that side of the fence is the issue of some people wanting Maryland to be more Northeastern. Most of these people a) have a simple affinity to denser, more urban, more liberal, places and b) Have moved here for job opportunities from places like NJ, PA, and NY and they are simply making themselves more comfortable by including MD in their home region and doing everything possible to make sure that's a reality.

You don't have to do that (the picture of Chamberlain) because your side is "winning" / "has won". People display those symbols in a state of divided opinion, generally, out of resistance when in the underdog spot to make a statement.

Bottom line is, the argument you are making can be made both ways. I am partially playing devil's advocate in my response just to make the point. I don't think Maryland is Southern today as a whole simply because of population concentration in the Balt-Wash corridor (but there are still Southern parts), it just is not, although, quite frankly, I wish it were! I don't see the positives of it becoming more Northeastern by the year except, maybe for more social freedoms (like gay marriage), which I am all for. On the other hand, I don't see much of a case being made to include MD in the Northeast outside that corridor. But, I digress, your argument is valid, but so is the other that counteracts it. Unfortunately, that fact may anger you and the others on the extreme side of the opposite opinion, but that's life.

This is where a proper definition of "Mid-Atlantic" should be the satisfactory, sane, consensus. Southern PA, far southern NJ, the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, the State of Delaware, Washington, DC, the State of Maryland, and the State of Virginia. And, if forced to condense to a definition featuring only full states, Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,188 posts, read 21,782,674 times
Reputation: 6116
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
Okay, flip the "concern".

The other argument isn't how Maryland is close to the South, but how far it is from the true Northeast. People cite commonalities between Maryland and the Northeast, and outside the Baltimore-Washington corridor (which still has some hits of its Southern past anyway), many don't see that from their perspective.

And, of secondary concern to people on that side of the fence is the issue of some people wanting Maryland to be more Northeastern. Most of these people a) have a simple affinity to denser, more urban, more liberal, places and b) Have moved here for job opportunities from places like NJ, PA, and NY and they are simply making themselves more comfortable by including MD in their home region and doing everything possible to make sure that's a reality.

You don't have to do that (the picture of Chamberlain) because your side is "winning" / "has won". People display those symbols in a state of divided opinion, generally, out of resistance when in the underdog spot to make a statement.

Bottom line is, the argument you are making can be made both ways. I am partially playing devil's advocate in my response just to make the point. I don't think Maryland is Southern today as a whole simply because of population concentration in the Balt-Wash corridor (but there are still Southern parts), it just is not, although, quite frankly, I wish it were! I don't see the positives of it becoming more Northeastern by the year except, maybe for more social freedoms (like gay marriage), which I am all for. On the other hand, I don't see much of a case being made to include MD in the Northeast outside that corridor. But, I digress, your argument is valid, but so is the other that counteracts it. Unfortunately, that fact may anger you and the others on the extreme side of the opposite opinion, but that's life.

This is where a proper definition of "Mid-Atlantic" should be the satisfactory, sane, consensus. Southern PA, far southern NJ, the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, the State of Delaware, Washington, DC, the State of Maryland, and the State of Virginia. And, if forced to condense to a definition featuring only full states, Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia.
Well, I am from California, and am Californian through-and-through. So, not sure if "my side" won anything. California was admitted as a free-State, much to the disdain of the Southern Democrats in California, who, shortly there-after, tried to succeed the southern half of the State from the northern half. During the Civil War, Californian militia groups mainly guarded the New Mexico Territory from Confederate expansion, but the militia was ultimately disbanded, I believe, due to conflicting loyalties. Some people volunteered for the Confederate army, and some for the Union, but the State mostly stayed away from full involvement.

My question about Chamberlain was more about where loyalties lie. If his image provokes extreme emotions, then you know where the State (Maryland) truly lies. That is, of course, assuming that people not only know who Chamberlain is/was, but the significance of his image shown in Maryland.

I find this topic interesting. For one, it is 2012 and this is still a topic. We are supposed to be a country united. I can understand choosing a "side" based on political, social, or religious views, but the idea that an entire region is better than another outside of subjective opinion (more-than-likely relating to lifestyle, quality of life) is silly. First off, not everyone in the "north" are liberal. Many people cite Massachusetts as the most liberal State, yet, I could not see why (actually, I know why, but it is hard to explain. You just got to live it. Just like I will never understand the meaning of Southern Pride). I have not heard the N word uttered so casually by so many white people as I heard when I lived in Boston. Outside of the coast and Cape, Mass. is fairly redneck/WT. And they don't call Maine the deep South of the North for nothing. Maine is probably the only State where one can see a Confederate flag decal next to one that reads Yankee and Proud. Vermont is known as a hippy State, but how hippy is it when you have armed citizens patrolling the Canadian border. Why? What is the threat? Rebel Canadian forces invading to take hockey back?

My point being any region has its share of diversity, but everyone has their own ideas of what a particular region is about.

Yes, my argument can go both ways, but I cannot think of another State that seems to be suffering from an identity crisis, to put it at an extreme. It seems to me, and others, that at its core Baltimore stands as the symbol for the North within Maryland. Yet, Maryland is such a small State that the BMore metro dominates. Things would be different, and possibly easier to discern, if the State was larger or Baltimore smaller.

Ultimately, it should be a personal opinion. Nothing will be gained nor lost (depending on one's perspective) if Maryland is officially deemed Southern, Northern, Mid-Atlantic, or even simply just East Coast. If Maryland is a Southern State in an individual's mind, than so be it. There is nothing wrong with that. I am curious, though, as to why someone would hold such an opinion even though I disagree about the cuisine.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 957,354 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Well, I am from California, and am Californian through-and-through. So, not sure if "my side" won anything.
Perhaps I was not clear enough. Not your side as in North vs. South Civil war, but your side as in the people who share your opinion on this issue.



Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
And they don't call Maine the deep South of the North for nothing. Maine is probably the only State where one can see a Confederate flag decal next to one that reads Yankee and Proud.
Hmm, not sure what you're talking about here as I have spent extensive time in Maine (Saco, Vienna, and Old Orchard Beach) and have never heard or seen such things. I don't have much experience with MA. Perhaps that's a "Mass-hole" thing to discuss (as they refer to MA residents in Maine).


Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Things would be different, and possibly easier to discern, if the State was larger or Baltimore smaller.
Baltimore is not that big.... The Southern areas of the state are massively larger than Baltimore. I'm thinking you mean population distribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
If Maryland is a Southern State in an individual's mind, than so be it.
It can also be Northeastern "in an individual's mind".

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
There is nothing wrong with that. I am curious, though, as to why someone would hold such an opinion even though I disagree about the cuisine.
You've got multiple threads, page after page of why people hold the opinion they do... yet you continue to ask? Not understanding that. I think the question has been pretty well answered on both sides. There will be no consensus anytime soon...
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:26 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 10,751,260 times
Reputation: 3093
Come on guys 83 more posts til 1000 on this topic... You can do it!
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,188 posts, read 21,782,674 times
Reputation: 6116
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
Perhaps I was not clear enough. Not your side as in North vs. South Civil war, but your side as in the people who share your opinion on this issue.
Ah, yes, I understand.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
You've got multiple threads, page after page of why people hold the opinion they do... yet you continue to ask? Not understanding that. I think the question has been pretty well answered on both sides. There will be no consensus anytime soon...
Well, I generally do not hangout in the Maryland forum, I primarily stick with the Baltimore sub-forum even though I live in Columbia. I do not read many of these pages, and I suppose I am aiming to gain insight through direct response to my own posts. I am not trying to troll. I just do not feel like skimming through hundreds of posts at the moment.

Many of my questions and comments are born from reading websites that discuss this topic.

I will take your comments as noted, however.

For your Maine comment, the Volvo-line is an imaginary line that separates Southern Maine from Northern Maine. Or, Southern Maine from "the Real Maine", as many will put it. It is also the separation between the have's and have-not's, liberal and conservative, rural and "metro"--even though the metro area can still be described as fairly rural in my opinion. The line basically starts somewhere near where Downeast and Mid-Coast meet, goes up to Bangor, then down the western side of 95 to the New Hampshire border. This area is considered Southern Maine, but geographically it is more of a sliver on the lower eastern side. It is also considered by many "real" Mainers to be a northern suburb of Boston and/or an extension of Mass., it is understandable.

Maine does not like Mass very much, but considering that Mass invaded and took Maine over by force (and telling them they were either going to be ruled by Massachusetts Puritanical Law or die), essentially becoming a part of Massachusetts during the time of the Puritans.

But that is a topic for a different forum.

The places you listed are within that boundary.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,566 posts, read 7,642,929 times
Reputation: 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Well, I am from California, and am Californian through-and-through. So, not sure if "my side" won anything. California was admitted as a free-State, much to the disdain of the Southern Democrats in California, who, shortly there-after, tried to succeed the southern half of the State from the northern half. During the Civil War, Californian militia groups mainly guarded the New Mexico Territory from Confederate expansion, but the militia was ultimately disbanded, I believe, due to conflicting loyalties. Some people volunteered for the Confederate army, and some for the Union, but the State mostly stayed away from full involvement.

My question about Chamberlain was more about where loyalties lie. If his image provokes extreme emotions, then you know where the State (Maryland) truly lies. That is, of course, assuming that people not only know who Chamberlain is/was, but the significance of his image shown in Maryland.

I find this topic interesting. For one, it is 2012 and this is still a topic. We are supposed to be a country united. I can understand choosing a "side" based on political, social, or religious views, but the idea that an entire region is better than another outside of subjective opinion (more-than-likely relating to lifestyle, quality of life) is silly. First off, not everyone in the "north" are liberal. Many people cite Massachusetts as the most liberal State, yet, I could not see why (actually, I know why, but it is hard to explain. You just got to live it. Just like I will never understand the meaning of Southern Pride). I have not heard the N word uttered so casually by so many white people as I heard when I lived in Boston. Outside of the coast and Cape, Mass. is fairly redneck/WT. And they don't call Maine the deep South of the North for nothing. Maine is probably the only State where one can see a Confederate flag decal next to one that reads Yankee and Proud. Vermont is known as a hippy State, but how hippy is it when you have armed citizens patrolling the Canadian border. Why? What is the threat? Rebel Canadian forces invading to take hockey back?

My point being any region has its share of diversity, but everyone has their own ideas of what a particular region is about.

Yes, my argument can go both ways, but I cannot think of another State that seems to be suffering from an identity crisis, to put it at an extreme. It seems to me, and others, that at its core Baltimore stands as the symbol for the North within Maryland. Yet, Maryland is such a small State that the BMore metro dominates. Things would be different, and possibly easier to discern, if the State was larger or Baltimore smaller.

Ultimately, it should be a personal opinion. Nothing will be gained nor lost (depending on one's perspective) if Maryland is officially deemed Southern, Northern, Mid-Atlantic, or even simply just East Coast. If Maryland is a Southern State in an individual's mind, than so be it. There is nothing wrong with that. I am curious, though, as to why someone would hold such an opinion even though I disagree about the cuisine.
It might help to not think "better" but "different." The realities and quirks that make up different parts of the country are important to many people. They have pride in who they are, and where they are from.

As an "East Coaster" my roots in Allegany County go back over 200 years. The streams and towns are named after my ancestors. I was the first person in my direct line to marry someone born outside of the county in over 100 years. I am proud to be Appalachian, even if the region contains only a small part of Maryland.

So, what region we live in isn't a moot point to many of us. It helps us explain who we are, what we are, and the character of our homeplaces. The character of Maryland is changing......fast. People who self-ID as Southerners suddenly find themselves as a minority in their own hometowns, places their ancestors lived, worked, and died for generations.

If you read through the tread, you will see that most posters that espouse the "Maryland is NOT Southern (or maybe just a little dying bit) are almost universally transplants. Nearly every native says either "mixed heritage," "border state," or something that understands the diversity our small state contains.

.....82 to go.
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