Maryland a southern state (Smith Island: office, island, place)

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

You did.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/17971236-post86.html

If anything Western PA can be included as Appalachian in culture both in settlement patterns and who the settlers were (I'm early Scots-Irish with an overlay of mid-19th century German).

I always include SW PA as part of Appalachia, albeit its northernmost projection. The ARC includes the lower tier counties of New York as Appalachia, but never having been there, I can't say whether it should be in our club or not.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I always include SW PA as part of Appalachia, albeit its northernmost projection. The ARC includes the lower tier counties of New York as Appalachia, but never having been there, I can't say whether it should be in our club or not.

Having grown up there, yeah you include it. Stubborn, hard headed, profane, as many bars as churches. If you don't believe me just ask my cousin/wife.






That last was meant as a joke. Kinda.

[pcity]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I always include SW PA as part of Appalachia, albeit its northernmost projection. The ARC includes the lower tier counties of New York as Appalachia, but never having been there, I can't say whether it should be in our club or not.

I'd include NW PA as well as Western NY. Same geography, same ancestry, same look and feel. Somewhere between the NY/PA state line and Buffalo, you lose Appalachia and get more of a rust-belt upper midwestern feel.

[Richard Martin]

Originally Posted by GoPhils

Kentucky, Alabama, same thing

I don't think I've ever heard WV as being in the Northeast

I also don't think of those states to the west of WV as being in the midwest. TN and KN are in the south and Ohio is well.. in the Ohio Valley. They put their groceries in a bag instead of a sack and drink soda instead of pop. I believe it would be the Rust Belt.

[Richard Martin]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I always include SW PA as part of Appalachia, albeit its northernmost projection.

It's a pretty well hidden secret but Appalachia runs all of the way into New York and includes a chunk of MD and a majority of PA.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/55/Appalachian_region_of_United_States.gif/350px-Appalachian_region_of_United_States.gif (broken link)

Appalachia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[GoPhils]

Wow that's a lot of PA as part of Appalachia...is that dividing line supposed to basically be I-81/78?

[Steelers10]

Originally Posted by GoPhils

Wow that's a lot of PA as part of Appalachia...is that dividing line supposed to basically be I-81/78?

Yeah, I-81 roughly borders the region to the east but inclusion in the Appalachian Regional Commission service area is done on a county basis. So what you are seeing on the map above on the edges of the region are the irregular boundaries of counties. I think the commission's description of Appalachia is quite accurate demographically but the physiographic province of Appalachia is stretched when it comes to Eastern Ohio and Mississippi. Also, many of the counties of Eastern Ohio, and Central Alabama and Mississippi were later included into the ARC because they were poor. The counties of Eastern Ohio have a very similar profile to the rest of the ARC areas, the ones in Central Alabama and Central Mississippi do not. There is also an area of NW New Jersey that was decidedly "Appalachian" and populated by the Ramapo Mountain People (or "Jackson Whites"). They are very similar to the Melungeons of Appalachia. However, it seems as if any area that at any point received a massive influx of Southern and Eastern Europeans (notably Italians) and then suburbanized is inherently excluded from Appalachia.

However, North Alabama and far NE Mississippi have an identical demographic profile to the rest of Appalachia. It is no accident that when West Virginia seceded to join the Union, similar movements took place in East Tennessee and North Alabama but were never able to get off of the ground because they were just too deep in the Confederacy (Central and Western North Carolina were strongly Unionist as well). Many say that the Civil War was not fought over slavery, but is it any coincidence that almost everywhere in the South that had few to no slaves or plantations (regardless of the state) wanted to remain loyal to the Union? We call these areas "Appalachia" today.

So this forum is talking about Maryland's inclusion in the South. I would argue that the Eastern Shore and Southern Maryland are more typically "Southern" than East Tennessee. But if you go further down, from my experience North Georgia still has Appalachian demographics but also still overwhelmingly identifies with the South. So saying that Maryland is not "Southern" because of metropolitan DC and Baltimore 20th-century development is silly in some sense. The concept of a major metropolis is just "un-Southern" in general (rural Florida is very "Southern", urban Florida is not).

But Maryland is not unique. All "Southern" states except Texas and Florida have an "Appalachian" region (which has been argued on this thread as not being typically Southern). Kentucky and Tennessee have a greater relative proportion of "Appalachia" than Maryland. And if anyone has ever been to Atlanta, its metropolitan area has an almost identical triangular geographic orientation to Washington DC where the counties in the bottom of the pyramid are more heavily African American (and the whites living in them are definitely "Southern"), the middle counties and central city are very cosmopolitan, urbane, ethnically diverse, and atypically "southern", then the apex of the pyramid extends into "Appalachia" and has a landscape and demographics that could just as easily be found in South Central Pennsylvania.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by Richard Martin

It's a pretty well hidden secret but Appalachia runs all of the way into New York and includes a chunk of MD and a majority of PA.


Appalachia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I appriciate the sarcasm (that is meant to be sarcastic too) about the ARC map being "secret." I was a key player in the discussion about which map to use on the wikipedia page to show the cultural region of "Appalachia" and the official ARC map was chosen, although there are other maps on the discussion page with different boundries that were considered for the page. There are difference of opinion among those in Appalachian studies about how well the governmentally assigned ARC corresponds with the cultural regions of Appalachia.

As Steelers10 already stated, some regions were dubiously included in the governmental defintition to help spread the money out, while other counties were opted out on purpose (for fear of being streotyped with their poorer neighbors) or were excluded by the goverment that are still Appalachian culturally.

My comments about PA are NY are based on my experiences. I have no beef with large parts of PA and the lower tier or New York being considered Appalachian culturally, I just haven't confirmed it myself because I have never been there and presented the question for consideration. I appreciate the comments from natives of those regions about their homes and self-identity.

I can vouch for the part of Ohio, around Belmont County, as being Appalachian. They have surface mining, small farms, and geographically it is still "Hill Country" although not as rugged as PA or WV.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by Richard Martin

It's a pretty well hidden secret but Appalachia runs all of the way into New York and includes a chunk of MD and a majority of PA.


Appalachia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pittsburgh: The Paris of Appalachia.

[westsideboy]

Except in Pittsburgh they put the pomme frites IN the French Dip sandwich