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Baltimore got alot of its population from Appalachian immigration. In this respect, it is more similiar to Pittsburgh (which of course is in Appalachia), Cincinatti, and other rustbelt towns. I don't think Appalachian immigration impacted NYC, Philly, Boston or any of the NE towns in the same way it affected Baltimore and the other rust belt towns. The dialect, popularity of country music, and overall, er....country fried attitude of at least the white Baltimoreans are reflections of this.
You could not be any more mistaken. I lived in Northern New Jersey for years and there are nearly zero similarities to any part of Maryland. Especially in overall "feel"- forget it. The Eastern Shore of Maryland is nowhere near Southern NJ culturally speaking. Tidewater VA, parts of coastal NC, and southern DE are culturally similar to Maryland's Eastern Shore. That's pretty much it.
You are spewing nonsense in every post and have claimed that this is an "elementary" argument, yet you keep going on and on. There is no way that you could ever erase Maryland's southern history and Marylanders from identifying with the South through your posts. It's wasted energy. You wouldn't have to work this hard to convince so many people in a REAL Northeastern state that they are not Southern. This argument will truly never end.
I see absolutely no difference between the eastern shore of MD and Delaware and southern Jersey. They are identical. I never mentioned northern New Jersey due to it's affiliation with NYC. And, read my post. I did say that eastern MD has most of MD's southern routes and allied with VA. I wish folks would read more accurately before assuming things.
Baltimore got alot of its population from Appalachian immigration. In this respect, it is more similiar to Pittsburgh (which of course is in Appalachia), Cincinatti, and other rustbelt towns. I don't think Appalachian immigration impacted NYC, Philly, Boston or any of the NE towns in the same way it affected Baltimore and the other rust belt towns. The dialect, popularity of country music, and overall, er....country fried attitude of at least the white Baltimoreans are reflections of this.
Don't forget that MD was originally a Catholic colony and has a large presense of Catholic immigration. Hence, Little Italy and it's many Catholic churches throughout the city. Also, MD has a very large Jewish population; one of the largest in the country. Both of these demographics link parts of MD to the northeast.
Or with Louisiana, a deep Southern state with a large Catholic presence since settlement days. Besides,"Little Italy" really is LITTLE Italy. Compare the % of population that self-IDs as Italian anywhere in Maryland with that of the NE metros...it pales in comparison.
Much of New York metro and New Jersey is plurarlity Italian. No such place exists in Maryland. Our settlement demographics fall in line with PA and the Midwest in the Northern part of the state, and with the south in Southern Maryland and the Eastern Shore.....just like you would expect from a border state.
I will agree on the Jewish question. But as a border state, we should be finding examples and counter examples since we will share traits with both our Northern and Southern neighbors.
Or with Louisiana, a deep Southern state with a large Catholic presence since settlement days. Besides,"Little Italy" really is LITTLE Italy. Compare the % of population that self-IDs as Italian anywhere in Maryland with that of the NE metros...it pales in comparison.
Much of New York metro and New Jersey is plurarlity Italian. No such place exists in Maryland. Our settlement demographics fall in line with PA and the Midwest in the Northern part of the state, and with the south in Southern Maryland and the Eastern Shore.....just like you would expect from a border state.
I will agree on the Jewish question. But as a border state, we should be finding examples and counter examples since we will share traits with both our Northern and Southern neighbors.
Not to familiar with any southern city with a "Little Italy" neighborhood. I am familiar with northern ones. I agree with you in that we really are a border state with both northern and southern attributes. I contributed because some of the rationale being written in this thread is absurd.
This post isn't very accurate. Summers in Maryland are hot and humid on the whole but, let's be real, New Jersey and southeastern PA have virtually the same hot, humid summers. Out where I live in Western Maryland, I'd be willing to bet my summers are comparable to yours, if not milder. As for no city in Maryland feeling similar to cities to our north, Baltimore is generally regarded as a smaller version of Philly. The Philly and Baltimore accents are extremely similar as well. Not all of the government places Maryland in the South. The Census Bureau does, but there are several agencies that place us in the Northeast or a distinct Mid-Atlantic region. While tobacco may have been the main crop in Maryland at one point, it was grown in Southern MD and on the Eastern Shore. The Piedmont region (and obviously the Mountain region) were (and are) more agriculturally similar to areas north of us. While I agree that most metro areas tend to lean left, Maryland is extremely and steadfastly blue. The areas you're describing (Charlotte, Austin, etc.) are part of the "New South." Maryland is definitely not. Baltimore has been Baltimore for a very, very long time, it's an old industry city with ethnic neighborhoods like its northern counterparts. The restaurant thing is complete BS. Maryland is and always will be a border state. I personally identify as more of a Yankee myself but you're not going to hurt my feelings if you say Maryland is Southern. I'd obviously see where you're coming from, just be accurate about it. There are many Marylanders that identify as Southerners and there are many that think of the notion as preposterous. When all is said and done, I like to think that Maryland got the best qualities from each side.
Maryland is a border state, but so to is Kentucky, West Viginia, and Missouri. However, the just because they were border states does not except them from being southern. So are you saying that West Virginia and Kentucky aren't southern because they were border states? I been to those states and I defintely beg to differ. Also, if you wanted to use politics as an example of northern traits, which I don't; West Virginia as a border state voted red in the 2008 election and is very conservative in Politics. Baltimore is not like Philadelphia. Philly is more NYC than Baltimore: Taller, denser buildings, markets much more reminiscent of New York or Boston for example, along with a real subway system. Even country music is popular in Baltimore. They are worlds apart in cuture and the history of these two cities couldnt be much different. The african american accents in Baltimore are no way similar to Philly or any part in the northeast at all. The restaurant thing is not B.S. as I'm speaking with expericence living in Brooklyn, Connecticut, and having going to other places in the northeast as well as the south(Maryland included). How many people in Maryland flock to local Pizzeria shops, hoagie and hero shops, latin cruisie restaurants, or West Indian/Jamician restaurants? Northeasten markets such as C-Town and Stop and Shop are non existent in Maryland. I'm sorry but no ones that I know thats from Connecticut or even New York indetifies Maryland as northeasten. I even met and know plenty of marylanders who identify as southern and sees New York, Connecticut, New Jersey as a complety different world. Yes Charlotte, Raleigh, Austin, Atlanta is the new south but so is Nova, Washington D.C. and Baltimore. I consider it all the new south as one poster stated its not the 1800s anymore but 2011 and changed.
As far as climate goes most of maryland climate is identicle to VA and NC then anything. The farther west you go though you get closer to WV and KY type climates.
My wife has relatives in CT and the drive is 5+ hours, but totally different coastal climates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj
Wrong on so many levels:
I have a place in Vermont, lived in Boston, family from Quebec. Now live in Baltimore. Sadly, much of Maryland is a lot more like Jersey than NC or even Virginia. Southern culture in the north? Have you not experienced Pennsylania's enterior? Baltimore is much more like Philly and Jersey cities, even cities in CT than anywhere in the south with the exception of maybe Richmond. Bodegas all over my neighborhood. Winters in MD may be a bit more milder but really not by much when compared to Jersey, pts. of PA, and Delaware.
I don't even know why I am bothering with this because it is really so insignificant and elementary. Obviously, MD has more southern culture. It's closer to the south.
Yes, the eastern shore of Maryland has a southern feel to it. But, western Maryland is much more similar to the mountain areas of PA, VA, WV, and even pts. of NY that are mountainous. The DC-Balt region is so northeastern, it's pathetic.
Some would also argue about your segregation comments. I know plenty of African-Americans in Boston who see it as a very segregated city.
Where I really lost ya was your comments about chain restaurants not being as popular in the northeast. Yikes. Where did you get that from? They're all over the place.
I dont know where you come off comparing the maryland eastern shore with Jersey. I have traveld to jersey ALOT over my 28 years and I frequent the maryland shore every year and the only similarity is that they have boardwalks...
I travel to AC about twice a year (thank God I wont have to anymore) and even south of that and the culture couldnt be farther from even our "northern cultures" in central MD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj
Baltimore is very similar to Jersey cities and the eastern shore of MD is almost identical to southern Jersey.
While I will say that baltimore isnt a pure southern city, not much is here in the south. I believe there are only 1 or 2 cities that retain southern culture as most cities are melting pots and dont align with one single culture. But I will say that baltimore feels 100% different from any northern city from philly up.
I will say alot of PA is closer in culture (minus eastern PA), but thats due to being apart of appalachia.
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Originally Posted by NYMTman
Baltimore is a lot like a larger version of Camden. MD and NJ have a lot in common.
We have nothing in common. The only thing we do is people from jersey and NY who live here in central MD.
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Originally Posted by NYMTman
Yea, the idea that Baltimore is part of the South is depressingly inaccurate. By 1860 only something like 1% of the city was slave, and Baltimore County was only 7% slave. Northern Maryland, like Delaware, was only nominally 'slave' territory.
Wrong. Ellicott city rail road had slave auctions until martial law was instated in MD when the civil war broke out.
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Originally Posted by NYMTman
Declining rust belt cities with abandoned row homes galore. So yea.
The rust belt is north of maryland. While culture in the panhandle/north WV and south west PA are similar the rust belt doesnt really reside in MD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
Maryland is the 5th most densely populated state in the U.S. The other 4 are New Jersey, Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Connecticut.
New York is more rural than Maryland.
Being as I have lived in MD my whole life his statement about the majority of the state being rural is correct. The main population lives between dc and baltimore.
If you travel outside of the dc balt corridor its nothign but farm and small towns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj
I see absolutely no difference between the eastern shore of MD and Delaware and southern Jersey. They are identical. I never mentioned northern New Jersey due to it's affiliation with NYC. And, read my post. I did say that eastern MD has most of MD's southern routes and allied with VA. I wish folks would read more accurately before assuming things.
Again there are huge differences. Drive a mile away from OC and youll see the non tourist shore.
Every time Im in NJ no matter if its the interior or the shore there are HUGE cultural differences from all of maryland and even more from southern MD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj
Don't forget that MD was originally a Catholic colony and has a large presense of Catholic immigration. Hence, Little Italy and it's many Catholic churches throughout the city. Also, MD has a very large Jewish population; one of the largest in the country. Both of these demographics link parts of MD to the northeast.
While this may be true there are other southern states that were founded under catholic ways. Now its pretty much a draw on protestant and catholic it seems.
Also if you wanna go back that far youll see maryland is also part of the old south due to our main crops being cotton and tobacco.
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