U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maryland
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-21-2011, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Germantown, MD
1,359 posts, read 3,197,862 times
Reputation: 569

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
And when it gets taken to referendum? Do you really think the Black churches will support it?
It most likely won't go to referendum. DC, which is 55% black, rejected a ballot initiative (mostly supported by black religious groups) on the grounds of discrimination, specifically the violation of DC's Human Rights Act. I doubt things will be much different in similarly very liberal Maryland.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-21-2011, 04:25 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,191 posts, read 39,456,532 times
Reputation: 40716
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpterp View Post
It most likely won't go to referendum. DC, which is 55% black, rejected a ballot initiative (mostly supported by black religious groups) on the grounds of discrimination, specifically the violation of DC's Human Rights Act. I doubt things will be much different in similarly very liberal Maryland.
Think again. DC's referendum rules are not MD's. It was rejected by the DC Board of Elections. All the MD Board of Elections does is certify the signatures on the petitions, it has no say on whether the referendum is appropriate (for lack of a better term).

You might have AG Gansler weigh in against it but, and it's a big but, he wants to be the next Governor and he has an inclination to both pander and issue opinions that he thinks will get him votes.


Outside the Beltway Counties and Baltimore City, MD is an extremely conservative state, more so than many states.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2011, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
1,154 posts, read 3,864,582 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
The poll is of registered voters, not likely voters. There is a big difference. I think if the bill is passed, it will be prime referendum fodder, and depending on when the issue makes the ballot and who is running for office then, gay marriage may very well be defeated by the citizens.
True, but blacks are less likely to vote than whites. That was even the case with Obama at the top of the ticket in 2008. And when it comes to gay marriage, the races will switch and whites will presumably be far more liberal than blacks.

But I agree, it will be very close... down to the wire. If blacks voted strongly against gay marriage, as I expect they will, and all else stays the same, gay marriage will fail in a landslide. But the mean polling data suggests a much tighter race; I would guess that's a result of the wealthy and educated white outer suburbs polling in favor of gay marriage. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 70%-30% split in favor of gay marriage in a place like Howard County.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
Outside the Beltway Counties and Baltimore City, MD is an extremely conservative state, more so than many states.
Well that's cherry picking, lol. You can pick out SF and LA and say the same about California. Most liberal states are like that.

Not to mention that Baltimore and Howard counties also vote democratic by substantial margins, and places like Charles and Frederick county are becoming more liberal as well. You cannot win Maryland simply by winning the 'big three' contrary to popular myth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2011, 05:28 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,191 posts, read 39,456,532 times
Reputation: 40716
Sure it's cherry picking but you have to look at what "Democrat" means in those Counties, especially Frederick and Charles. It means a Democrat who is generally as, if not more, conservative than most Republicans. Charles is becoming more Democratic due to Black Flight from PG, not because of a change in political beliefs.

Calvert may be instructive. Thirty years ago there was a 7-1 D to R registration advantage. Then came White Flight from PG. All those good Democrats changed their registration when they crossed the Patuxent. Calvert is now evenly split between D, R, and I. All five County Commissioners are Republican. The Delegate seat held for generations by Democrats went Republican this year, throwing out the incumbent who was generally thought to have that seat as long as she wanted it. The heir apparent for Sen. Miller's Senate seat was defeated for re-election to Commissioner.

One wild card no one has mentioned is that Senate President Thomas V. "Mike" Miller opposes gay marriage and he has not, as yet, told the Party Caucus in the Senate that they can vote their conscience on this. What "Mike" wants, "Mike" usually gets and those who oppose him end up with no Bond-Bill money for their Districts, get put on less desired Committees and lose their chairmanships. And in some extreme cases get re-districted out of existence. Ask Bernie Fowler or Tom Rymer about that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2011, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
1,154 posts, read 3,864,582 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Sure it's cherry picking but you have to look at what "Democrat" means in those Counties, especially Frederick and Charles. It means a Democrat who is generally as, if not more, conservative than most Republicans. Charles is becoming more Democratic due to Black Flight from PG, not because of a change in political beliefs.

Calvert may be instructive. Thirty years ago there was a 7-1 D to R registration advantage. Then came White Flight from PG. All those good Democrats changed their registration when they crossed the Patuxent. Calvert is now evenly split between D, R, and I. All five County Commissioners are Republican. The Delegate seat held for generations by Democrats went Republican this year, throwing out the incumbent who was generally thought to have that seat as long as she wanted it. The heir apparent for Sen. Miller's Senate seat was defeated for re-election to Commissioner.

One wild card no one has mentioned is that Senate President Thomas V. "Mike" Miller opposes gay marriage and he has not, as yet, told the Party Caucus in the Senate that they can vote their conscience on this. What "Mike" wants, "Mike" usually gets and those who oppose him end up with no Bond-Bill money for their Districts, get put on less desired Committees and lose their chairmanships. And in some extreme cases get re-districted out of existence. Ask Bernie Fowler or Tom Rymer about that.
True but Charles County hasn't voted for a Republican presidential candidate since 1996, and Frederick shifted away from the Republicans by 19 points from 2004 to 2008. They are in a different league from Calvert County, which remains comparatively untouched by the massive numbers of DC transplants.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2011, 05:56 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,191 posts, read 39,456,532 times
Reputation: 40716
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMTman View Post
True but Charles County hasn't voted for a Republican presidential candidate since 1996, and Frederick shifted away from the Republicans by 19 points from 2004 to 2008. They are in a different league from Calvert County, which remains comparatively untouched by the massive numbers of DC transplants.


You haven't been here in awhile.

1980 Census 30,000
2010 Census 87,000

That's not from the birth rate.
It was one of the fastest growing Counties in the US for most of the 90s and the fastest by a big margin in MD.

We're not talking Presidential elections here but a possible State referendum. What I said about Black opposition to gay marriage in PG and Baltimore City also transfers to the new residents of Charles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2011, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,580 posts, read 7,659,253 times
Reputation: 2800
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMTman View Post
True, but blacks are less likely to vote than whites. That was even the case with Obama at the top of the ticket in 2008. And when it comes to gay marriage, the races will switch and whites will presumably be far more liberal than blacks.

But I agree, it will be very close... down to the wire. If blacks voted strongly against gay marriage, as I expect they will, and all else stays the same, gay marriage will fail in a landslide. But the mean polling data suggests a much tighter race; I would guess that's a result of the wealthy and educated white outer suburbs polling in favor of gay marriage. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 70%-30% split in favor of gay marriage in a place like Howard County.



Well that's cherry picking, lol. You can pick out SF and LA and say the same about California. Most liberal states are like that.

Not to mention that Baltimore and Howard counties also vote democratic by substantial margins, and places like Charles and Frederick county are becoming more liberal as well. You cannot win Maryland simply by winning the 'big three' contrary to popular myth.

O'Malley blew out Ehrlich winning only 5 jursitictions and if you do the math, even if he had lost Charles and Howard, he still would have won the overall race in a landslide. The big three reign supreme, it isn't a myth.

Governor Map - Election Results 2010 - The New York Times
http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/results/maryland
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2011, 02:21 PM
 
3 posts, read 15,584 times
Reputation: 33
Thumbs up Not under Gods law

If gay marriage does pass in oue state it still won't be legal in Gods law, so in all actuality it can't be legal. It's just like taking your oath under God in court when you raise your right hand and swear under Gods law. it's exactly the same thing. The last time I checked it was Adam & Eve not Adam & Steve.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,580 posts, read 7,659,253 times
Reputation: 2800
Yeah, and that Adam and Eve thing worked out real well for human race. Don't eat fruit from the forbidden tree! How hard is that to understand? And listening to something a talking snake tells you to do? Stupid, stupid, stupid. Maybe if it was Adam and Steve they would have been out throwing around a football or something rather than screwing the human race forever with the stain of original sin. Just a thought...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2011, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Germantown, MD
1,359 posts, read 3,197,862 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Think again. DC's referendum rules are not MD's. It was rejected by the DC Board of Elections. All the MD Board of Elections does is certify the signatures on the petitions, it has no say on whether the referendum is appropriate (for lack of a better term).

You might have AG Gansler weigh in against it but, and it's a big but, he wants to be the next Governor and he has an inclination to both pander and issue opinions that he thinks will get him votes.


Outside the Beltway Counties and Baltimore City, MD is an extremely conservative state, more so than many states.
Thanks for enlightening me.

Gansler however does strike me as very liberal, even more so than O'Malley, and he's the reason Maryland is one of the 3 states that doesn't allow gay marriage but recognizes it.

In my opinion the only part of Maryland that is truly "extremely" conservative are the 3 Western MD counties where only just over 4% of Marylanders reside.

Compared to minority-heavy Baltimore, Prince George's County (which voted for Obama with a higher margin than any other county in the country), or borderline-socialist Montgomery County, the rest of the state might appear conservative but for the most part it seems either moderately liberal (Howard, Charles), middle of the road (Frederick, Baltimore County, Anne Arundel), or moderately conservative (everywhere else). Maybe the lower parts of the Eastern Shore could be considered "extremely" conservative too, but again how many people live there?

Even the 1st District, which includes the entire "conservative" Eastern Shore recently elected a Democratic rep (and the ~20 years before that had a RINO Rep.), even though he was just kicked out in an election year heavily favoring Republicans.

Also, as NYMTman said, there probably isn't a single state in the country (liberal or otherwise) where conservative counties don't vastly outnumber liberal ones. Red/blue maps of CA, PA, or NY (which typically vote Democratic) would demonstrate this nicely. At the polls it's not the amount of land area in a state that's blue/red, it's the people. That said Maryland is certainly one of the top 5, or even top 3, most Democratic/liberal states in the country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maryland
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top