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Old 02-20-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,625,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Westside, I knew all that. I was just gigging you.
Most people don't know the truth behind that election, at least now the truth is on the internet in case anybody google searches it. I should have guessed you would be in the loop, being a political animal yourself.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:28 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 1,850,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
I can assure you there is no "Confederate Gang" of kids at Fort Hill or anywhere else in the county. It was kids from the rural parts of the county that have gone to school together, with the disabled kid, since they were little. They came together to support one of their own being bullied and intimidated by an outsider (regardless of race) and then having our community sh*t on by the downstate media. The choice of symbol makes me cringe because I am smart enough to know how the rest of the state/country would interpret it.
I certainly agree to your point to put this to bed and get back to the issues of the vantage point of a relocating teacher. You don't have to worry about me insinuating Cumberland is "full" of Confederate gangs. If there was even one it seems as if the principal dismantled any inklings of it within Fort Hill. I used the term because it is now convenient just to call any juveniles linked together under some unifying paraphernalia a gang. Most would call the KKK domestic terrorists; I think they would call themselves a civic organization like the Elks. However, I must say from the reporting I have seen, the girl involved in the incident had been receiving threats and intimidation prior to this incident presumably from the friends of the disabled kid and she was making good grades at the school so it doesn't seem as if she was at Fort Hill for the expressed intent of making trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
These kids didn't think all that through. They were just sticking up for their own, and picked something they figured would agitate to aggressor. They succeeded, too much so obviously. It was a dumb symbol to use and the principal did the right thing. Hopefully it won't happen again.

At no time has there been any "Confederate Gang" related activities of any kind in Fort Hill or anywhere else in the county and it certainly doesn't involve the Fort Hill football team which fields more black players than any other highschool (save maybe Keyser, WV) for 60 miles in every direction. If you think otherwise, I hate to be the one to disappoint you.

The most salient point you made was that the kids just didn't think it through. Like I said in my previous posts, it sounds like the more responsible figures in the community took control of the situation and the actions of these kids weren't representative of all of Cumberland. If this group has truly been disassembled, then any behavioral issues that a relocating teacher might find in Fort Hill should stand on its own merit and not symptomatic of any organized intimidation. Like I said previously, for whatever few blacks are in Cumberland, that is radically more than I think you would find in the region and certainly throughout rural Appalachia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
I like your research skills, your legal understanding of fighting words is pretty good. None the less, I think it is important to remember it wasn't an innocent young girl making one mistake, it was a bully who had picked on this kid before. She was a known entity at the school as a trouble maker long before she cut in line for the last time. Was it even possible for the kid to "flee" the lunch line? Maybe so, maybe not?

I don't fault the kid for what he did, I would even applaud him for standing up for himself, it is what I do and what I would want my kids to do if they were being bullied, although I certainly don't agree with his choice of words. And that is what it comes down to, the headline could as easily be "Out of town girl slurs local disabled child," but it wasn't. The infamous "n-word" was uttered and the Sun and Post had the story ready to go. Wait until about summer and they will publish another, whether they need to or not. Like I said, it is a stock story, they cart back out those old stereotypes and insult our community. I read the article myself, and asked the REAL question, why didn't the media go and talk to any of the middle class residents of Cumberland itself? They found, interviewed, and photographed the most caricatured "hillbillies" they could find and then put those people out as the face of our community. Insulting to say the least.
Agreed. As parents you always want your kid to stand up for themselves. Principals are obligated to punish anyone who disobeys the rules, even if someone else started it. That has been a dilemma as long as there have been disciplinary issues in school, but administrators have no recourse. And when the television media wants a juicy story, they look for the most ignorant members of the community they can find and put a camera and microphone in front of their faces. If they truly wanted to be sympathetic towards the disabled child they would have found the most articulate person in the city to voice his or her viewpoint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
But here, let's but this to bed

Table 13 - MARYLAND - Hate Crime Statistics 2009

Over 100 hate crimes reported in Maryland in 2009. Number of those in Allegany County - 1

Our community isn't racist, nor full of confederate gangs. We all get along regardless of race, unless you are a loud mouth teenage transplant picking on disabled kids then I guess all bets are off.
Very interesting table. Either the table made an omission or it reinforces my point. Allegany County has one, but apparently Washington County has absolutely none at all. But what the heck is going on in Baltimore County? They account for, what, 40% of the hate crimes in the state?

I am not on some mission to change how you feel about your community. I feel the same way; a co-worker who is an African immigrant was discussing how similar Washington County was to the "Deep South" in terms of how he was treated. I just kind of said, "well you shouldn't go where you aren't comfortable" but I left it at that knowing full well there are no documented issues of racism and harrassment in Washington County that I know of or have heard of. So he's definitely not going to come up here looking for it. Just hopefully I have given some insight as to how a transplant might feel if they Googled "Fort Hill Football" or some version of "Fort Hill High School Football in Cumberland MD" and seeing a racial incident article on the first or second page. Even someone like me who was in Maryland to watch the news would never understand the interpersonal relationships involved in the conflict? Perhaps, but most violent crimes are between individuals that know each other and no one ever stops to say, "there is probably some history between these two." Most people just say, "well blacks do this and whites do this and since they do this it is obviously their fault."

Also, interesting stuff about Casper Taylor. I would have assumed Cumberland was more Republican than Hagerstown but it is really the Republicans in Hagerstown that took him down after the districts were redrawn.

Last edited by Steelers10; 02-20-2011 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,625,854 times
Reputation: 2775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
I certainly agree to your point to put this to bed and get back to the issues of the vantage point of a relocating teacher. You don't have to worry about me insinuating Cumberland is "full" of Confederate gangs. If there was even one it seems as if the principal dismantled any inklings of it within Fort Hill. I used the term because it is now convenient just to call any juveniles linked together under some unifying paraphernalia a gang. Most would call the KKK domestic terrorists; I think they would call themselves a civic organization like the Elks.




The most salient point you made was that the kids just didn't think it through. Like I said in my previous posts, it sounds like the more responsible figures in the community took control of the situation and the actions of these kids weren't representative of all of Cumberland. If this group has truly been disassembled, then any behavioral issues that a relocating teacher might find in Fort Hill should stand on its own merit and not symptomatic of any organized intimidation. Like I said previously, for whatever few blacks are in Cumberland, that is radically more than I think you would find in the region and certainly throughout rural Appalachia.



Agreed. As parents you always want your kid to stand up for themselves. Principals are obligated to punish anyone who disobeys the rules, even if someone else started it. That has been a dilemma as long as there have been disciplinary issues in school, but administrators have no recourse. And when the television media wants a juicy story, they look for the most ignorant members of the community they can find and put a camera and microphone in front of their faces. If they truly wanted to be sympathetic towards the disabled child they would have found the most articulate person in the city to voice his or her viewpoint.



Very interesting table. Either the table made an omission or it reinforces my point. Allegany County has one, but apparently Washington County has absolutely none at all. But what the heck is going on in Baltimore County? They account for, what, 40% of the hate crimes in the state?

I am not on some mission to change how you feel about your community. I feel the same way; a co-worker who is an African immigrant was discussing how similar Washington County was to the "Deep South" in terms of how he was treated. I just kind of said, "well you shouldn't go where you aren't comfortable" but I left it at that knowing full well there are no documented issues of racism and harrassment in Washington County that I know of or have heard of. So he's definitely not going to come up here looking for it. Just hopefully I have given some insight as to how a transplant might feel if they Googled "Fort Hill Football" or some version of "Fort Hill High School Football in Cumberland MD" and seeing a racial incident article on the first or second page. Even someone like me who was in Maryland to watch the news would never understand the interpersonal relationships involved in the conflict? Perhaps, but most violent crimes are between individuals that know each other and no one ever stops to say, "there is probably some history between these two." Most people just say, "well blacks do this and whites do this and since they do this it is obviously their fault."

Also, interesting stuff about Casper Taylor. I would have assumed Cumberland was more Republican than Hagerstown but it is really the Republicans in Hagerstown that took him down after the districts were redrawn.
Well I can't argue with any of that Cas's Washington County precincts were Hancock, Big Pool, Clear Spring, and Wilson's, all GOP strongholds. I believe Hagerstown city is more like Cumberland with the aging union Democratic voters still having the majority.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:50 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,131 posts, read 39,212,961 times
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If Cas Taylor (and a number of other conservative MD Democrats for that matter) were in VA or even western or central PA they'd be Republicans.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,564 posts, read 7,625,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
If Cas Taylor (and a number of other conservative MD Democrats for that matter) were in VA or even western or central PA they'd be Republicans.
Yeah, that is what we tried to tell them in Washington County, they didn't buy it! The trigger lock bill really hurt his credibility with the rural precincts. When you lose an election on the decision of less than 80 people, you can figure out dozens of scenerios and what-ifs that could have lead to victory. A lot of people in Western Maryland tend to focus on the gun issue because it fits there own agenda, but again, in an election that close, the deluge that hit Cumberland right at 5:00pm was probably just as important. I joke that as old as Cumberland's Dem electorate is, if the election had been held 2 months earlier, Cas would have won, just because he would have had 80 more supporters still breathing.

Last edited by westsideboy; 02-20-2011 at 07:34 PM..
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:11 PM
 
21 posts, read 65,904 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
I think we can assess that everything this individual is saying is factually incorrect or his own opinion.



Bowie has over a 50% higher proportion of blacks than the rest of the state. You are correct, Bowie is not like all of the rest of PG County. There are even higher income areas than Bowie. You clearly did not read my response where I said the bulk of Maryland's high crime areas are concentrated inside of the Beltway in PG County and in inner-city Baltimore. Read before you respond.



I have no idea why you would think Fort Meade would bolster Bowie's income to some wildly disproportionate level. Fort Meade is its own separate census designated place that is actually part of Anne Arundel County, not Prince George's County. So if it was somehow magically improving the wealth of PG County then it is likely doing more of the same for AA County. However, I assure you it is not. Unfortunately to your idiotic assertion, the median family income of Bowie is nearly three times higher than that of Fort Meade. If anything, Fort Meade would lower the median family income of Bowie.

With that being said, is their something wrong with having a high income? I think I made that point in the post I replied to after you responded to mine. Once again, you didn't read it. And Bowie State doesn't skew Bowie's demographics. Do recent college grads move down the street making six figures? I think PG County is pretty black without Bowie State and its 5,000 students (and not even all of those students are black, or actually live in Bowie, and college students aren't counted as permanent residents anyway; Bowie State is not a prison). It is clear you have never set foot anywhere near Fort Meade, Bowie, Bowie State, or perhaps even PG County in its entirety.



This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard (or at least in awhile ). If they are trying to make every neighborhood look better, how does that explain the numbers for Baltimore? So you are thinking "Neighborhood Scout" is making up murder statistics? Does "Greatschools" invent test scores? If I was certain you could read, I would direct you to this link on theModerator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is against the toshome page which is prominently displayed and clearly and concisely explains their methodology and where the got their data for all of their categories. You know, from such secret societies as the U.S. Bureau of the Census, the U.S. Department of Justice, the National Center for Education Statistics, and the U.S. Geological Service. Your points are preposterous and if you insist on passing off your own highly incorrect opinion as fact refrain from being upset when someone points out how ludicrous your posts are.
Yes, while Fort Meade does have housing, it's own zip code and is it's own CDP yes, but where do you think the professionals who work for NSA or as contractors live? Where do you think the majority of soldiers (a high proportion I'm sure are officers in the communications, intel, IT, and cyber security MOSes) live? Not on base although some do. And yes, I've been to Ft. Meade a few times, I enlisted from there many years ago and have used the commissary on occasion. I grew up in Anne Arundel and I'm sure a good number of the professionals who work at Northrup and Lockheed live in Bowie.

THAT's how Ft. Meade/NSA headquarters boosts Bowie's stats. Let's not forget about NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center right next door in Greenbelt. Another High income employer.

College students by the way are counted one of two ways. If their parents mark them off while doing their own census then they are counted there. If they live, say, in an apartment off campus then they are generally counted at that apartment. Oh hey, I worked for that piece of crap operation too.

I agree that the majority of PG's crimes are committed inside the beltway, as are Baltimore and the Baltimore area's. You're right about that. And while the things I type are factually correct there is a lot of opinion being thrown around. I hope you understand how employment and income makes a big difference and how Ft. Meade and government employment in general affects certain areas. If anything government employment concentrates both wealth in nicer areas and forces lower incomes out. Government welfare does the same thing in the opposite direction: concentrating poverty in certain areas while people who can want to get away.

Last edited by Yac; 03-08-2011 at 06:53 AM..
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:36 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,131 posts, read 39,212,961 times
Reputation: 40590
You know guys, maybe we should get back on track here and help answer the original question, which was if teaching in MD was feasible.

As someone who moved to MD from PA nearly 30 years ago for a teaching job the answer is a strong maybe. That's due to budgetary reasons this year, and probably next.

Anne Arundel, Charles, Calvert and St. Mary's are all possibilities in Southern MD. They are all generally rural/suburban. All are having budget issues this year.

PG, Montgomery and Baltimore Counties are all crapshoots. There are good and bad and very bad schools in all three jurisdictions, with the highest proportion of total bad in PG. Anne Arundel also has some schools that are marginal, generally those closest to Baltimore and Annapolis High School, which is a mix of wealthy and quite poor students. Big cultural, and racial, divide there.

I'm not so familiar with the Central MD systems but Howard and Carroll Counties both have good reputations.

The Education Week ratings placing MD as #1 in the nation are based solely on the HSA tests. The editors there like them.

You'll hear down here about the Challenge Index by Jay Matthews for Newsweek/Washington Post. It's, in my opinion and many other's, a bogus raitng which divides the number of AP exams in a school by the number of seniors to get a "rating" of difficulty. Doesn't really prove much but tightens the sphincters of school administrators.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,702 posts, read 34,711,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
The Education Week ratings placing MD as #1 in the nation are based solely on the HSA tests. The editors there like them.
That's actually impressive. Figuring that you have Baltimore and PG that everyone rips on, and MoCo, which seems to be 'outshined' by NoVA.

Obviously someone is doing something right in MD.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:41 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 1,850,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe26 View Post
Yes, while Fort Meade does have housing, it's own zip code and is it's own CDP yes, but where do you think the professionals who work for NSA or as contractors live? Where do you think the majority of soldiers (a high proportion I'm sure are officers in the communications, intel, IT, and cyber security MOSes) live? Not on base although some do. And yes, I've been to Ft. Meade a few times, I enlisted from there many years ago and have used the commissary on occasion. I grew up in Anne Arundel and I'm sure a good number of the professionals who work at Northrup and Lockheed live in Bowie.

THAT's how Ft. Meade/NSA headquarters boosts Bowie's stats. Let's not forget about NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center right next door in Greenbelt. Another High income employer.

College students by the way are counted one of two ways. If their parents mark them off while doing their own census then they are counted there. If they live, say, in an apartment off campus then they are generally counted at that apartment. Oh hey, I worked for that piece of crap operation too.

I agree that the majority of PG's crimes are committed inside the beltway, as are Baltimore and the Baltimore area's. You're right about that. And while the things I type are factually correct there is a lot of opinion being thrown around. I hope you understand how employment and income makes a big difference and how Ft. Meade and government employment in general affects certain areas. If anything government employment concentrates both wealth in nicer areas and forces lower incomes out. Government welfare does the same thing in the opposite direction: concentrating poverty in certain areas while people who can want to get away.
Now you are making complete and total sense. Everything you have said is completely plausible and I cannot say I disagree with any of it (and my opinion is no more valuable than yours). Why does your post make so much sense? Because missing from this post you just made are all of the unverifiable claims of Bowie's demographics, how Carroll County is somehow inherently better based on its demographics, and how the sources of my information somehow have an agenda. You are correct, there is a lot of opinion being thrown around. But when that opinion is a direct response to someone else and it is unsubstantiated then the response will be commensurate to the initial rebuttal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
That's actually impressive. Figuring that you have Baltimore and PG that everyone rips on, and MoCo, which seems to be 'outshined' by NoVA.

Obviously someone is doing something right in MD.
Yeah, on these discussion boards I get lambasted for saying that while PG County Schools are clearly inferior to Montgomery County, they are better than many school systems around the country. PG County is a very large county with no major city with in that would serve as a commercial hub or job center. So when a PG County neighborhood goes south, it GOES SOUTH and takes its schools with it. But all in all the quality of public education seems quite good. If the teacher relocating from Pittsburgh can get hired on with the exception of some inner-city schools in Baltimore and some inside the Beltway in PG County I don't think she will see the type of violence against teachers that occurred with her unless she is specifically working in an Alt Ed program.

Last edited by Steelers10; 02-20-2011 at 07:52 PM..
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
82 posts, read 231,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
On this forum we are giving advice to a relocator looking for a teaching position.
Yes, I did not mean to stir up any controversy. I am merely looking a good place for my wife and I to raise our daughter who is in elementary school.

Pittsburgh was ranked as a great place to live but I know it first hand. The city is a HORRIBLE place to live. The school system is not meeting the needs of myself as a teacher or my daughter as a student. It is only Monday morning and I have already been threatened by a student. You don't hear about the crime here, but trust me, it exists like any big city - even though Pittsburgh is a small city.

As far as the "black/white" issues, you have them here as well. I can probably move my daughter to a better district and commute, but that leaves me hating my job on a daily basis. I know there are better options out there for my family. To get a teaching job in a suburb here someone literally has to die for a position to open up.

I want to stay on the East Coast as my family is in PA. MD does rank as the best state for education and I do realize that test scores aren't the best indicator of what really goes on.

I am considering other states as well, and welcome your input. NC and SC pay teachers so little and have no union support. VA also has openings in in my area (Spanish).

As far as MD, I was looking at housing costs for Montgomery Co and they are too high. I realize that any place near DC will have high housing costs. (I was already offer a position by DC Public but turned it down because I can't afford the housing costs).

As far as what we are looking for is:

Affordable housing
Good school for my daughter
A good place to teach
Family-oriented activities (parks, movies, museums, etc)

Aside from any arguing, I do want you opinions about there you live.
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