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Old 01-23-2012, 11:54 PM
 
878 posts, read 1,043,946 times
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Despite all of the gloom and doom proclaiming that Maryland is becoming too ghetto, liberals are destroying the state, and Virginia is sooooooooooo much better than Maryland, the good Old Line still manages year after year to post the highest ranking schools in the country. And the knock was that the high level of achievement was due to already well-educated kids moving into the state. But actually the state was ranked highest among its Pre-K and elementary programs. So yes, Maryland does have some bad schools and schools districts, but some pretty good ones as well. And comparatively, some of the bad schools (PG County is a frequent target) pale in comparison to some of the horrors these families left behind in D.C.
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Old 01-24-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
3,155 posts, read 4,444,001 times
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Welcome back! Not to sound overly sappy, but I missed your insight into our discussion here.
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Old 01-24-2012, 03:46 PM
 
69 posts, read 66,285 times
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In Education Week Magazine? Um, I'm sure that isn't biased AT ALL. Good grief...
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:05 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
16,868 posts, read 16,765,450 times
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Education Week's ranking for MD is based on the HSA exams (not what's in them just that we have them) and the fact that more high school kids, as a percentage of Seniors, take AP classes than anywhere else. The ranking doesn't address the appropriateness of the HSAs or student success in either the HSAs or AP exams.

Basically it's Jay Matthews' Challenge Index writ large. And is just as meaningless.

Using Education Week's parameters Prince George's County would have the top ranked school system in the state because the school system pays for all the AP exams.

Last edited by North Beach Person; 01-24-2012 at 04:22 PM..
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:51 PM
 
878 posts, read 1,043,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Welcome back! Not to sound overly sappy, but I missed your insight into our discussion here.
Many thanks esteemed poster--I am fully confident you have been keeping the rabble-rousers in check! But I stand corrected; it is still gloom and doom! But not on your behalf of course!


I guess you will always find individuals to dispute the validity of Maryland's ranking. The same publication ranked DC schools 49th (out of a presumable 51). Please feel free to dispute the validity of that ranking as well folks!
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:12 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
16,868 posts, read 16,765,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
Many thanks esteemed poster--I am fully confident you have been keeping the rabble-rousers in check! But I stand corrected; it is still gloom and doom! But not on your behalf of course!


I guess you will always find individuals to dispute the validity of Maryland's ranking. The same publication ranked DC schools 49th (out of a presumable 51). Please feel free to dispute the validity of that ranking as well folks!

Because they put new tests in place. Again not looking at the success rate but just the test existence piece.


I'm not saying MD schools are bad but the ranking system doesn't pass the smell test for those of us who are teachers in MD. It does make Nancy Grasmick happy.

If MD schools are so good we should be number one in SAT scores. We're not. Why? Because too damn many unqualified students take the test and their scores are crap. But we get a plus from Education Week for the raw numbers of SAT takers. That's the kind of methodology I mean.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:56 PM
 
878 posts, read 1,043,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Because they put new tests in place. Again not looking at the success rate but just the test existence piece.


I'm not saying MD schools are bad but the ranking system doesn't pass the smell test for those of us who are teachers in MD. It does make Nancy Grasmick happy.

If MD schools are so good we should be number one in SAT scores. We're not. Why? Because too damn many unqualified students take the test and their scores are crap. But we get a plus from Education Week for the raw numbers of SAT takers. That's the kind of methodology I mean.

You emboldened the word teachers; I work in the education field as well. I understand the vast inequities that exist in Maryland but I also think IF a ranking system has to exist, based on the merits of the methodology (just like the Newsweek rankings) Maryland is deserving of this ranking. However, you or any other research is free to devise their own methodology and rank the states and the District of Columbia accordingly!
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:02 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
16,868 posts, read 16,765,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
You emboldened the word teachers; I work in the education field as well. I understand the vast inequities that exist in Maryland but I also think IF a ranking system has to exist, based on the merits of the methodology (just like the Newsweek rankings) Maryland is deserving of this ranking. However, you or any other research is free to devise their own methodology and rank the states and the District of Columbia accordingly!

Please explain to me how dividing the number of AP tests given by the size of the Senior class gives any kind of reliable statistic on a school's worth, which is what Newsweek's ranking are based on. Especially since, in many schools, the bulk of AP tests are taken by underclassmen and not Seniors.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:05 PM
 
878 posts, read 1,043,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Please explain to me how dividing the number of AP tests given by the size of the Senior class gives any kind of reliable statistic on a school's worth, which is what Newsweek's ranking are based on. Especially since, in many schools, the bulk of AP tests are taken by underclassmen and not Seniors.
The methodology has been updated, here it goes:

In the past, high schools must have given more Advanced Placement (AP), International Baccalaureate (IB) or Cambridge (AICE) tests than the number of seniors graduating in order to make the list. This year, the methodology was changed to reflect “a school's success turning out college-ready (and life-ready) students,” according to Newsweek. “To this end, each school's score is comprised of six weighted components: graduation rate (25 percent), college matriculation rate (25 percent), AP tests taken per graduate (25 percent, average SAT/ACT scores (10 percent), average AP/IB/AICE scores (10 percent, and AP courses offered (5 percent).”

From my personal experience, the same students who take AP Exams as "underclassmen" are the same who are taking AP Exams as seniors. There is no valuable metric for dividing the number of sophomores taking AP Exams by the number of sophomores matriculating to their junior year because advancing from one grade to the next is meaningless. Graduation is the only form of matriculation that counts. But passing AP Exams (3s or better) always maintain their value and generally fours and above count for college credit irrespective of what year in high school the exam was taken. And technically you don't have to take the AP course to take the exam (and vice versa) so the concept of the AP exam is a floating entity that really has nothing to do with grade of enrollment.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:40 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
16,868 posts, read 16,765,450 times
Reputation: 16416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
The methodology has been updated, here it goes:

In the past, high schools must have given more Advanced Placement (AP), International Baccalaureate (IB) or Cambridge (AICE) tests than the number of seniors graduating in order to make the list. This year, the methodology was changed to reflect “a school's success turning out college-ready (and life-ready) students,” according to Newsweek. “To this end, each school's score is comprised of six weighted components: graduation rate (25 percent), college matriculation rate (25 percent), AP tests taken per graduate (25 percent, average SAT/ACT scores (10 percent), average AP/IB/AICE scores (10 percent, and AP courses offered (5 percent).”

From my personal experience, the same students who take AP Exams as "underclassmen" are the same who are taking AP Exams as seniors. There is no valuable metric for dividing the number of sophomores taking AP Exams by the number of sophomores matriculating to their junior year because advancing from one grade to the next is meaningless. Graduation is the only form of matriculation that counts. But passing AP Exams (3s or better) always maintain their value and generally fours and above count for college credit irrespective of what year in high school the exam was taken. And technically you don't have to take the AP course to take the exam (and vice versa) so the concept of the AP exam is a floating entity that really has nothing to do with grade of enrollment.
For bolded: maybe. I say that because most of my Seniors back off AP in 12th grade because they've run out of courses to take. Not every school is an Eleanor Roosevelt that cherry picks the best kids and has the staff and upper level support ($$$$$$) to offer every AP class invented. Most high schools are comprehensive and have to balance staffing, students, scheduling, etc. Want to drive a Principal crazy? Tell him he has to make an AP section for 3 kids that meets every day in a Block Schedule in a subject no one but those 3 kids want to take and have no staff member qualified to teach it. It is fun to do.

But until this year the scores didn't count. If this is the new metric it may actually render a more meaningful number.
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