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Old 03-18-2013, 03:40 PM
 
544 posts, read 854,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Plus the tolls to fund the ICC which Montgomery's liberal elite demanded that the state build for them.
I'm a little confused here. When we build the ICC to help alleviate some of the worst traffic in the country, it's a liberal elite status symbol, but if you do massive road works projects on the Eastern Shore, it's ok?

Please, explain to me this logic?
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,185 posts, read 21,737,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post

As for the costs, good point. But I since paying more money to the state seems inevitable under the taxes and regulation being proposed, I would say using that same money to fix the underlying problem, breaking up a state with an increasingly mismatched population and divisive one party rule would be an investment in our future.
Perhaps West Virginia would welcome Western Maryland, but I really do not see Virginia or Delaware giving up their counties to allow Delmarva. It is one thing for the Eastern Shore to want to turn the Delmarva Peninsula into its/their own State, but to assume, or demand, that Delaware goes along with it is ridiculous.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:45 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,525 posts, read 11,614,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMaryland455 View Post
TOM LENNOX........You really have some personal issues against Montgomery County and Prince George's County........The funny thing is you leave HOWARD COUNTY out of the equation like they don't follow the same standards as Montgomery County.........You Really want us (Montgomery County) to leave that bad LOL.....You must be from Washington County or Garret County and don't really feel accepted....well get over it..........MMONTGOMERY, HOWARD, AND PG COUNTY set the standard on hoe Maryland is run.......Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Howard County also has its liberal issues but its not AS liberal as Montgomery and PG....and the Big Three does not include Howard COunty....the third part of the Big Three is Baltimore City. Also one thing about Montgomery County is that a lot of people there do not consider themselves Marylanders and are culturally different from the rest of Maryland, and they consider themselves to be Washingtonians instead. There is little Maryland identity in Montgomery County or PG County. These two counties are the source of most of the liberal laws and nanny statism in Maryland that hurts the rest of the state. Jsut like Northern Virginia is far removed from the rest of Virginia and is a source of high taxes and liberal laws likewise though due to Virignia's more powerful rural areas, Northern Virginia isn't subsidized by the rest of Virginia to the extent that the Eastern Shore, Western MD, and the Baltimore suburbs subsidize the DC area and Baltimore City. For example, drivers in Wyetheville and Petersburg are not expected to fund the Washington Metro the way drivers in Cumberland and Salisbury are.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:50 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,525 posts, read 11,614,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reiflame View Post
I'm a little confused here. When we build the ICC to help alleviate some of the worst traffic in the country, it's a liberal elite status symbol, but if you do massive road works projects on the Eastern Shore, it's ok?

Please, explain to me this logic?
There are no massive road works projects on the Eastern Shore. When was the last major project on the Shore? Ocean City doesn' even have a third bridge and the Route 90 bridge even isn't 4 lanes. There have been no recent projects in Western Maryland either. Or Carroll County. or Southern Maryland.

The only reason they want to raise the gas tax is to built the Washington Purple Line and the Baltimore Red Line (which will mostly benefit only the CITY.....the county will be slightly affected in that more ghetto people will be able to move out into the county). Montgomery COunty and PG County and Baltimore City have NEVER contributed their fair share of tax revenue to the state yet control the state's politics and are responsible for policies that are widely unpopular and have economically disasterous affects on the rest of Maryland such as the ban on natural gas drilling, PlanMaryland, "smart growth" and the environemtnal restrictions on farms and fishing. Right now Western Marylanders are seeing prospertiy come to Pennsylvania and West Virginia from the natural gas industry, they are seeing landowners across the nearby borders prosper from gas wells drilled on their land, but it has not yet happened in Western MD because that kind of thing goes against the liberal sensibilities of the state government. A chicken farmer in Somerset County has to deal with far more extensive and expensive regulations than a chicken farmer on Virginia's Eastern Shore or in southern Delaware.

And all the ridiculous laws like in-state tuition for illegals, death penalty repeal, plastic bag taxes, gas taxes, income tax increase all come from Montgomery and PG County, and get some backing from Baltimore City.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:54 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,525 posts, read 11,614,071 times
Reputation: 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Perhaps West Virginia would welcome Western Maryland, but I really do not see Virginia or Delaware giving up their counties to allow Delmarva. It is one thing for the Eastern Shore to want to turn the Delmarva Peninsula into its/their own State, but to assume, or demand, that Delaware goes along with it is ridiculous.
Delaware will not allow it because they have their own issues, in that New Castle County/Wilmington has a stranglehold on the state and controls the state while the southern two counties have no voice. That is why Delaware routinely goes blue in presidential elections and why there are also harmful developmental limits in southern Delaware, which also isn't living up to its own growth potential. Delaware also has a lot of illegal immigrants including in southern Delaware. A lot of the farms there employ illegal aliens.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:40 AM
 
581 posts, read 952,503 times
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Unfortunately for Tom, we let people vote and not empty acres of land. Montgomery, Howard, PG, and Baltimore dominate the state because that's where most of the people live. It also happens to be where most of the money is earned in the state.

As for Montgomery not paying their fair share, who do you think is paying O'Malley's new higher taxes on high earners? Its not the eastern shore or western MD. It's Montgomery and Howard!
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:11 AM
 
544 posts, read 854,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
There are no massive road works projects on the Eastern Shore. When was the last major project on the Shore? Ocean City doesn' even have a third bridge and the Route 90 bridge even isn't 4 lanes. There have been no recent projects in Western Maryland either. Or Carroll County. or Southern Maryland.
No, no, no. 2 pages back, you advocated for a bypass and widening of a major road on the shore. How is ok when you want it, but not ok when Montgomery County wants it?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If road works projects are ok on the shore, then they're ok in the DC metro area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox
Montgomery COunty and PG County and Baltimore City have NEVER contributed their fair share of tax revenue to the state
You want to give me a source on that one? Because everything I've read says that Montgomery gets back about $.25 for every $1 it sends to Annapolis. We keep this state floating, not the shore, not Western Maryland and not Baltimore.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:25 AM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,096,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
O'Malley like to talk about "One Maryland", but maybe thats because it benefits him and his base in Montgomery County, PG County, and Baltimore City. I know many people from the Eastern Shore who talk wishfully of secession, and many people from Western Maryland who wish to join West Virginia. And people statewide, including in the Baltimore region, who wish Montgomery County and PGC would leave the state and become part of DC. Especially since many people there don't even consider themselves Marylanders the way many people in Northern Virginia dont' like to say they're from "Virginia" with all the Southern implications that come with it.

I think MoCo, PGC, and Baltimore CIty are the only places that benefit from "one Maryland". Not the rest of us. First off is the distribution of tax money. The DC suburbs are NOT self-sufficient in many regards. They are heavily dependent on government employment which doen't really add any net revenue. Nothing is really produced, only redistributed. Tax money from the DC area alone would not have been enough to contruct and maintain the ICC and the Maryland portion of the Washington Metro subway, and how they want to build the Purple Line in the DC area. The Metro is subsidized by gas taxes collected statewide (unlike areas like Chicago or Atlanta or NOVA! with regional transit authorities) and the ICC resulted in statewide toll hikes at all the Maryland transportation Authority bridges and tunnels and it was clear these increases were exclusively to build the ICC which the liberal elites of Montgomery County demanded the state build for them. Additionally, if MoCo and PG were combined with DC and Northern Virginia, that hypothetical state would NOT collect enough tax revenue at current rates to fund all of their liberal social programs like all the welfare, all the benefits to illegal aliens, etc especially with the poverty in PG County and the number of people on government assistance there. Most people on govenrment assistance live in PG County ,eastern MoCo, or Baltimore City.

On the other hand, MoCo, PGC, and Baltimore City push policies that the rest of us don't want. Its not just things like them forcing their liberalism on gun rights, the death penalty, abortion, gay marriage and illegal immigration (also a fiscal issue) onto us. The Montgomery County liberals pass many laws that directly hurt the economies and people fo the rest of Maryland such as the bans on septic tanks and natural gas fracking, the smart growth policies, and the stringent environmental restrictions that make our industries and agriculture less competitive compared to other states. I blame the state government's regulations for Sparrows Point Steel not finding a new buyer and being shut down permanently with the loss of 3000 jobs in Baltimore County. Lawmakers from the Eastern Shore unanimously oppose Planmaryland and "smart growth" yet the state forces these policies statewide. Maybe "smart growth" is needed in MoCo, but the Eastern Shore and Western Maryland need more economic development and housing expansion and more commercial land development which the local residents are desperate to have. For example, yes the highways in MoCo are jammed up (same with the Metro for those who support more transit use).....but Salisbury, Cambridge, Westminster, and Hagerstown all have plenty of space to expand and can handle a lot more growth. Even smaller cities in Maryland like Hagerstown and Salisbury are quite dense compared to similar sized cities in Virginia, West Virginia, and the Carolinas.

I've heard that Ocean City is the main reason the state will not allow the Eastern Shore's secession, because the state depends too much on the tax revenue from there including all the sales taxes and hotel taxes and other tourist spending. Imagine if ALL the revenue from Ocean City/Assateague/Kent Island/Crisfield and half the revenue from the Bay Bridge could be spent on the Eastern Shore exclusively, how much that would help the Shore's economy. It would help the Eastern Shore/Delmarva be a self-sufficient state especially with farming and fishing more profitable after O'Malley's nanny state regulations are removed, that plus not having to deal with "smart growth" and PlanMaryland, and not having all the septic tank laws to deal with that hinder growth. The lower gas taxes, cigarette taxes, sales tax, and alcohol tax would help Eastern Shore compare better with Delaware and Virginia, if it were to stand alone and not be part of the larger Delmarva.

If Western Maryland joined West Virginia, it would be an average region compared to the rest of WV. The restrictions on natural gas drilling and coal mining would be lifted, and many more jobs and revenue would be created for sure. And likewise the PlanMaryland and septic tank restrictions would be gone and Western Maryland can better develop economically.
Nobody wants to join WV and this is coming from a WV resident. If you think MD is bad just wait until Charleston got ahold of you.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
4,558 posts, read 7,617,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Nobody wants to join WV and this is coming from a WV resident. If you think MD is bad just wait until Charleston got ahold of you.
I peek in on you guys in the WV forum from time to time. I think our local disposition is more suited to wrangle with other Appalachian folks over pork distribution than battling a super-majority leftist elite that is VERY different from us culturally and has a much different economic and demographic reality in their communities.

Besides, we could be an extra 100k people in the "Morgantown-Martinsburg" alliance you guys talk frequently discuss are on the outside looking in. Cumberland is just about as close to Morgantown as we are to Hagerstown, and most of Garrett County looks to Morgantown, as much if not more than, Cumberland as the nearest "city" for their shopping/medical care, etc.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:23 PM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,096,494 times
Reputation: 1758
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
I peek in on you guys in the WV forum from time to time. I think our local disposition is more suited to wrangle with other Appalachian folks over pork distribution than battling a super-majority leftist elite that is VERY different from us culturally and has a much different economic and demographic reality in their communities.

Besides, we could be an extra 100k people in the "Morgantown-Martinsburg" alliance you guys talk frequently discuss are on the outside looking in. Cumberland is just about as close to Morgantown as we are to Hagerstown, and most of Garrett County looks to Morgantown, as much if not more than, Cumberland as the nearest "city" for their shopping/medical care, etc.
The issue is you will be losing a lot. I wouldn't mind WV growing but you are only going to lose benefits. Your roads will fall into disrepair. There will be less state jobs and the pay will be lower. Services will be worse. Environmental protection will disappear. Big interest will run things. Schools like Frostberg would lose money.

Maybe EP and Northern WV could join MD. It would balance the vote better.

Trust me you don't want the corruption and incompetence of Charleston.
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