Howard County used to be ranked #1 wealthiest county (estate, income)

[truthhurts]

Originally Posted by Tallybalt

Howard is ranked one of the wealthiest counties because it has very few poor people to drag down the average household incomes.

If you compare Howard with Montgomery County, you will find not only a higher # of affluent households, but those households make even a higher income. There's nothing in Howard County comparable to Bethesda, Chevy Chase or Potomac.

On the other hand, Montgomery County has Wheaton, parts of Rockville and Silver Spring, that are home to a large and growing population of immigrants and minorities. Their lower than average income drags down MontCo's average. Howard doesn't have those demographics except for a small area bordering Route 1 on the County's eastern edge and some subsidized housing in Columbia.

Howard is a pleasant land of upper middle class households making 100-300K incomes, but you'll find very few households making more than that. Montgomery, Anne Arundel, and even Baltimore County have more very high end households than Howard. A quick look at the County's retail and dining scene tells you that Howard is still a family oriented, suburban, chain-store county.

That's a very inaccurate statement and i'd challenge you to find data that supports your view. For starters the bulk of the people living in Howard County were poorer than most in other counties up until the mid 90's. You might have better success finding out where all the new wealth came from in Howard County, because as someone stated previously it was definitely not created by the rurual poor folks that populated most of the county previously in the 60's, 70's, and 80's.

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

In terms of median family income. When did this happen? Howard just sort of sprung up over night as this bastion of new wealth.

ACS: Ranking Table -- Median Family Income (In 2003 Inflation-adjusted Dollars)

What happend to Fairfax County, VA and Montgomery County, MD dominating the coveted Top Slots. Is Howard County now the new money place to be in the DC-Metro Area?

This is the recent data and those counties still rock. bizjournals: How 100 counties ranked in wealth

I meant look at the top 6 and even the whole list. Hey look at the top 20 and there are 6 DC area jurisdicitions and no PG. Wait look at the top 34 there are now how many and no PG. Keep going. Geez where is this relative claim for PG coming from of wealth. They are overwhelmed with wealthy neighbors. I guess some of it has spilled over to the county.
Thats the problem four of the neighboring counties are in the top ten and PG isn't on the list of 100. You have to clarify PG as being based on race to say it is one of the wealthiest. Howard and the others are flat out wealthy regardless of demographics.

Looking at this chart the question should be. Is PG the only non money place in the DC/Metro area. Please give this argument up it only causes us to lose and look bad when it comes to the application of metrics and social issues of merit.

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

That's a very inaccurate statement and i'd challenge you to find data that supports your view. For starters the bulk of the people living in Howard County were poorer than most in other counties up until the mid 90's. You might have better success finding out where all the new wealth came from in Howard County, because as someone stated previously it was definitely not created by the rurual poor folks that populated most of the county previously in the 60's, 70's, and 80's.

Many of the rural folks from the 50's and 60's found themselves land/home rich when the price of land skyrocketed with Columbia in the early 70's. Many of them have true wealth because they now have homes and land valued at 700K with mortgages long paid off. Who do you think sold the land to developers? Again let us not confuse individual wealth with income. That is the root of much of the housing confusion. Just because you live in a 700K home does not mean you could afford to buy it today at your salary level. Sure you have the equity since it is paid of to buy it again with that cash but without the house they couldn't buy the house. Thus more expensive homes then people with incomes to afford them. The asset wealthy people are often the ones who have been there the longest and are debt free. Many retired people have limited incomes but lots of assets thus true wealth. The moral? Save, invest and conserve. Don't consume in excess. Hmmm sounds like old fashion values and some of the early residents of the county. Wow that 50K 1971 house that sold for 650k in 2005 and was paid off. Wait and with a 40K mortgage (20% down) that left lots of disposable income for shopping at the Mall and most importantly investing. Geeez and oh yes the vacation home in Ocean City purchased in 1982 which by 2005 had appraised at how much over purchase price? Yes and those basic folk drive basic cars and don't have large car notes. College tuition you know the deal. No those 60-75 year old today residents of the 60's and 70's are dirt poor and facing foreclosure. Maybe not I think Howard County is the Mecca of 55 plus housing and those folks are cashing out and paying cash for their 600K dream villa. Well until the recent downturn in the market they were.

[TuborgP]

Once again Iscalder I know you mean well and you are trying to be supportive of the issues and beliefs you hold dear and that is good. However this post supports the notion that the changing demographics of Maryland are taking the state down and that we are becoming worse off for it. What do the poor look like? Are you saying that when folks who look like that move in the neighborhood tanks? If thats the case then why would anyone buy into a declining state now or for that matter stay?

[truthhurts]

Originally Posted by TuborgP

This is the recent data and those counties still rock. bizjournals: How 100 counties ranked in wealth

I meant look at the top 6 and even the whole list. Hey look at the top 20 and there are 6 DC area jurisdicitions and no PG. Wait look at the top 34 there are now how many and no PG. Keep going. Geez where is this relative claim for PG coming from of wealth. They are overwhelmed with wealthy neighbors. I guess some of it has spilled over to the county.
Thats the problem four of the neighboring counties are in the top ten and PG isn't on the list of 100. You have to clarify PG as being based on race to say it is one of the wealthiest. Howard and the others are flat out wealthy regardless of demographics.

Looking at this chart the question should be. Is PG the only non money place in the DC/Metro area. Please give this argument up it only causes us to lose and look bad when it comes to the application of metrics and social issues of merit.

Look dude, i'd love to entertain your argument on "Per Capita Income", which as you know is totally different than Median Income. Now, there's a lot of debate as to which is more of a fair gauge to use in defining wealth.

Per Capita basically says most people living in the area are not poor. Meaning it takes into account anyone of working age. To put it plain and simple anyone of the age of 16 that works and brings in an income.

Median slightly differs, because it focuses on just that the median "salaries" of all working age adults.

This is important, because again you can use data to say whatever point you're attempting to prove. I could just as easily use median income, which i did in another poll and PG is in the top 2% of all counties in this country, but even if I used per capita while it is not in the top 5% of all counties it still is in the top 92% of all counties.

Its basic math dude. Let me put it this way. The list oinly list 100 counties out of more than 3100 in this country what does that mean? You did afterall take elementary math correct?

100/3100 = Top 3%

or in other words the counties that are 97% wealthy than all other counties in this country

PG on that list when extended is

252/3100 = Top 8%

or in other words the counties that are 92% wealthy than all other counties in this country

Again your argument is moot no matter what you say if you do Median PG is in the top 5% of most counties if you do per capita PG falls to the top 8% of counties.

What you're doing as i just proved is deceptive. The DC-Metro Area has the wealthiest counties in this country. It's like you saying Larry Bird was only the 8th best basketball player on the 1992 Dream Team. Dude, DC-Metro is the freaking dream-team of wealthy counties in America, so does it really make a difference if PG is 1 or 8? It's still wealthier than 92% of all counties in this country. Explain to me why that bothers you?

Now, while i agree with a lot of the basics people are saying with wealth all i'm saying is stop trying to trash a county dishonestly. If you do not like the county because the people are black say freaking so! Stop hiding behind a bunch of vague bs to prove points that are constantly misleading. If you do not like it because it is black than say so. Hell, I hate the freaking county and i'm black, but i do not like it for the following reasons. Overall poor performing schools, crime in the inner beltway and most importantly i do not like the attitude of a large portion of the residents. The difference with what i said and what you're saying is i deal in fact and fact only and however you call it when compared to all counties in this country its a hell of a lot wealthier. When compared to the other counties in "The Dream Team" or DC-Metro it's not all that comparable.

Anyway this is about Hoco not PG use the other board to debate it please.

Turbo i'm just calling you out because you have a dishonest agenda in many ways. If i wanted to say more whites are poor in this country than there are black people in this country i could easily just cite total numbers right? I would be 100% correct and telling the truth, but what really matters is the percentage of each population in their total population. When you cite data you can fool an idiot but a person in the know you'll have a hard time convincing you're doing nothing more than pushing a misleading agenda.

Would that be misleading?

Again all i ask if you're going to debate it do it fairly and honestly with youself.

Closing no matter if its Per Capita or Median PG is still one of the wealthies counties in the country.

If a classroom of 8 children receive the following on a test

99%
99%
98%
97%
97%
97%
95%
92%

These are all A grades right? Would you say the child that only got 92% is an idiot? Or would you say relative to the other children in his classroom he's not as smart, but he's clearly smarter than most other children in other classes? Please answer the question?

Or better way to put this to totally close your bs argument. If there are 3100 test takers and 300 of them score in the 90% percent range are these students significantly less intelligent than the students that got close to perfect scores? Would every student that scored above an A or 90% range be in the same class or same intelligence level?

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

Look dude, i'd love to entertain your argument on "Per Capita Income", which as you know is totally different than Median Income. Now, there's a lot of debate as to which is more of a fair gauge to use in defining wealth.

Per Capita basically says most people living in the area are not poor. Meaning it takes into account anyone of working age. To put it plain and simple anyone of the age of 16 that works and brings in an income.

Median slightly differs, because it focuses on just that the median "salaries" of all working age adults.

This is important, because again you can use data to say whatever point you're attempting to prove. I could just as easily use median income, which i did in another poll and PG is in the top 2% of all counties in this country, but even if I used per capita while it is not in the top 5% of all counties it still is in the top 92% of all counties.

Its basic math dude. Let me put it this way. The list oinly list 100 counties out of more than 3100 in this country what does that mean? You did afterall take elementary math correct?

100/3100 = Top 3%

or in other words the counties that are 97% wealthy than all other counties in this country

PG on that list when extended is

252/3100 = Top 8%

or in other words the counties that are 92% wealthy than all other counties in this country

Again your argument is moot no matter what you say if you do Median PG is in the top 5% of most counties if you do per capita PG falls to the top 8% of counties.

What you're doing as i just proved is deceptive. The DC-Metro Area has the wealthiest counties in this country. It's like you saying Larry Bird was only the 8th best basketball player on the 1992 Dream Team. Dude, DC-Metro is the freaking dream-team of wealthy counties in America, so does it really make a difference if PG is 1 or 8? It's still wealthier than 92% of all counties in this country. Explain to me why that bothers you?

Now, while i agree with a lot of the basics people are saying with wealth all i'm saying is stop trying to trash a county dishonestly. If you do not like the county because the people are black say freaking so! Stop hiding behind a bunch of vague bs to prove points that are constantly misleading. If you do not like it because it is black than say so. Hell, I hate the freaking county and i'm black, but i do not like it for the following reasons. Overall poor performing schools, crime in the inner beltway and most importantly i do not like the attitude of a large portion of the residents. The difference with what i said and what you're saying is i deal in fact and fact only and however you call it when compared to all counties in this country its a hell of a lot wealthier. When compared to the other counties in "The Dream Team" or DC-Metro it's not all that comparable.

Anyway this is about Hoco not PG use the other board to debate it please.

Turbo i'm just calling you out because you have a dishonest agenda in many ways. If i wanted to say more whites are poor in this country than there are black people in this country i could easily just cite total numbers right? I would be 100% correct and telling the truth, but what really matters is the percentage of each population in their total population. When you cite data you can fool an idiot but a person in the know you'll have a hard time convincing you're doing nothing more than pushing a misleading agenda.

Would that be misleading?

Again all i ask if you're going to debate it do it fairly and honestly with youself.

Closing no matter if its Per Capita or Median PG is still one of the wealthies counties in the country.

If a classroom of 8 children receive the following on a test

99%
99%
98%
97%
97%
97%
95%
92%

These are all A grades right? Would you say the child that only got 92% is an idiot? Or would you say relative to the other children in his classroom he's not as smart, but he's clearly smarter than most other children in other classes? Please answer the question?

Or better way to put this to totally close your bs argument. If there are 3100 test takers and 300 of them score in the 90% percent range are these students significantly less intelligent than the students that got close to perfect scores? Would every student that scored above an A or 90% range be in the same class or same intelligence level?

I am a supporter of PG I just am trying to balance the argument out. I am sure the child and parent of who got the 92% are and should be happy and proud. However don't expect the other 7 to be impressed. Thats my point also you need to ask the question why all of the grades are so high just like you need to ask the question why is the DC area so wealthy and expensive. Grade inflation? Wealth inflation. The bigger question is what quality of life does that wealth data point get you? That may be part of the reason for the debate. Some think the quality of life it gets you is good and others don't. That question is applicable to any county. Howard has traffic and congestion especially in the east and to some that makes it not worthwhile. However when someone begs a question they get an answer.

[TuborgP]

Now Truth with regards to my trying to trash PG forget that thought. Do you see me posting in the denegrating PG thread? Nope that is not my thing or thought. If you read the OP for each thread I like to think I am being consistant with a logical reaction to what they posted. If you want to talk about wealth in Howard should PG be done in that same breath? Maybe maybe not. But if so then be ready for people not to be inpressed. Go to Harvard and tell them you made the Deans List at Frostburg. Bird was the 8th best player on the Dream and that is impressive because that was the elite of the elite. Sure the new Honda Accord is one sweet car but I don't think the owner of a BMW 7 series is going to be as impressed as you might want. I would be and am impressed with the accomplishments of PG. I do however know how people not as supportive as I are reacting and what they are thinking. Read their post. I am talking data and the application of and they are talking social worth. PS please read backwards and see that I was responding to Iscalder and her post which brought PG into the discussion. For that your issue is with her my friend, not me as I said ask the question , beg the response.

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

In terms of median family income. When did this happen? Howard just sort of sprung up over night as this bastion of new wealth.

ACS: Ranking Table -- Median Family Income (In 2003 Inflation-adjusted Dollars)

What happend to Fairfax County, VA and Montgomery County, MD dominating the coveted Top Slots. Is Howard County now the new money place to be in the DC-Metro Area?

This post begged the question of comparison and those counties are still dominating per the 2007 chart I posted. In fact they have much company from within the area in the top 100. Why 100? Thats what the available data showed and many tops charts stop at 100. Sorta like the Billboard top 100. Sure number 252 makes it one of the top singles of the year but it really doesn't get as much play or national focus.

[truthhurts]

Originally Posted by TuborgP

I am a supporter of PG I just am trying to balance the argument out. I am sure the child and parent of who got the 92% are and should be happy and proud. However don't expect the other 7 to be impressed. Thats my point also you need to ask the question why all of the grades are so high just like you need to ask the question why is the DC area so wealthy and expensive. Grade inflation? Wealth inflation. The bigger question is what quality of life does that wealth data point get you? That may be part of the reason for the debate. Some think the quality of life it gets you is good and others don't. That question is applicable to any county. Howard has traffic and congestion especially in the east and to some that makes it not worthwhile. However when someone begs a question they get an answer.

Turbo, i'm am going to quickly explain why your argument no matter which way you put it is utter and complete bs. Look i've proved through fact whether i like either of the counties, they are "wealthy" conties in this country whether one is ranked #1 or whether one is ranked #49. My reasons are comparison of 3100 other counties, difference between the 300 wealthiest counties in this country and the other 2900 odd counties, and the facts are the facts and you added something to the conversation i didn't even say nor ask. (Your original argument was that PGC was only consider wealthy because of its black majority i since proved you wrong did i not?)

Turbo there are more than 3100 counties in this country. If there were only 1000 you would have a valid point in labeling PGC as a not rich or wealthy county, but the fact are the facts whether you or I like it, and that is even with all of the crime in the inner beltway, all the black people, and the regionally poor performing school system, this county is still one of the wealthiest counties by far and large in this country. Anyone who argues anything different is a fool and attempting to perpetuate a self serving perhaps (racist) stereotypical agenda.

You claim that the ohter counties would not be impressed. Again you do not attack my argument on its merits, but bring into question something i never mentioned, but i'll respond to it with fact.

Highest-income counties in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please read the difference between the top 100 counties in terms of median income i'll give you the first stats

The number #1 county has a median income of $82,000
The number #100 county has a median income of $57,000

PGC $56,000

The average income of the top #100 is $64,000
The median income of the top #100 is $61,000

Your point is moot and silly and beyond self serving. The difference in wealth between the top 300 counties is so small, but once you compare it to the rest of the country and the Top #100 poorest places to live its huge. Here's the comparison

Lowest-income counties in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The number #1 poor county has a median income of $9,200
The number #100 poor county has a median income of $22,632

In closing i do not disagree on a hand to hand comparison of any of the top wealthy counties in this country you're going to find certain disparities. Clearly Montgomery County has a far larger base of upper class families than Prince Georges, but when compared to the entire list of 3100 counties PGC is not much different than Montgomery, Howard, or Fairfax county. The top 10% wealthiest counties are so much wealthier than 90% of the rest of the counties in this country it is not even funny.

I'll again implore my Larry Bird exmaple. Larry Bird, was the 8th best basketball player on greatest basketball team ever assembled, while clearly Michael Jordan was the best player the other players were not at a disproportionate disadvantage in overall skills when compared to him. However, when you put them on same team the difference in skill between Larry Bird and Michael Jordan is hardly noticably when competing against the rest of the world. If you were to have Larry Bird compete head to head with Michael Jordan clearly Michael Jordan would dominate and the skill level between two of the best players would favor the overwhelmingly better player (Jordan). However, if you place Larry Bird against the Top 90% of all basketball players in the world he would clearly be superior and would dominate. Sure Jordan (or the county at the top 1%) would dominate the rest of the team, but the further you go down the team in skill level the mid players on the team become more comparable, but when you compare all of these guys to the rest of the world, they are so much better (or wealthier). This is my point about PGC being wealthy FACT are FACTS! You can dice them up any way you like them, but as i have said earlier with all of the counties problems its still one of the wealthiest counties in the country regardless if its black or white majority. Response?

[TuborgP]

This is 2000 census data and if you go to the link it states the following at the top.
This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards.