Was Maryland Ever a Southern State?

[AeroGuyDC]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

**The question is not whether Maryland is currently a southern state**

The question is whether Maryland was historically a southern state.

Yes, Maryland was/is a southern state.

The Maryland State Song calls Abraham Lincoln a "despot" and specifically refers to "northern scum."

Lincoln had jailed Maryland legislators to prevent the state from seceding from the union. Why? Because the capital (DC) would have been surrounded by Southern states.

No denying it....MD was a southern state.

[North Beach Person]

I see three dummies voted.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by CoolZombie

"Between Paoli and Penn Hills, Pennsylvania is Alabama without the blacks. They didn't film The Deer Hunter there for nothing -- the state has the second-highest concentration of NRA members, behind Texas." - James Carville

+2 Basically Alabama of the North outside of the two major metro areas lol.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by DMVboy

Yeah I remember my cousin told me probably about 5 years ago she was riding through PA, a few miles west of Philly to be exact, and she told me the town she was riding through had confederate flags on the country stores and houses that all lined up along the highway she was riding on. It was so bad until she told me if you didn't know any better, you would've thought you were in Alabama somewhere. Lol.

Probably why most Philadelphians refer to the rest of the state (excluding the Pittsburgh area) as "Pennsyltucky" LOL

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by tcave360

Probably why most Philadelphians refer to the rest of the state (excluding the Pittsburgh area) as "Pennsyltucky" LOL

That was that piece of **** James Carville.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by tcave360

Probably why most Philadelphians refer to the rest of the state (excluding the Pittsburgh area) as "Pennsyltucky" LOL

I was pressed for time this morning.

You know how pissed you get when someone makes fun of or otherwise makes Prince George's the butt of jokes?

I'm from that part of PA you refer to (although I've been in Southern Maryland long enough that people refer to me as an honorary SMIB or even the dreaded "Good Old Boy") and the people there have the same emotion about the Pennsyltucky name that you do about criticisms of Prince George's.

[CoolZombie]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

I was pressed for time this morning.

You know how pissed you get when someone makes fun of or otherwise makes Prince George's the butt of jokes?

I'm from that part of PA you refer to (although I've been in Southern Maryland long enough that people refer to me as an honorary SMIB or even the dreaded "Good Old Boy") and the people there have the same emotion about the Pennsyltucky name that you do about criticisms of Prince George's.

Carville is a dishonest snake but he's dead on about the kind of the angry bizarre right wing types living in Pennsyltucky. It's the part of the Northeast time and education forgot (I'm not saying thats true of yourself or the many smart normal people who happen to live there same as any other region).

[NYMTman]

People from Philadelphia and Pittsburgh can't really talk anyway - glass houses and all that. They were great cities 100 years ago, I guess. Rural PA is gorgeous.

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC

Yes, Maryland was/is a southern state.

The Maryland State Song calls Abraham Lincoln a "despot" and specifically refers to "northern scum."

Lincoln had jailed Maryland legislators to prevent the state from seceding from the union. Why? Because the capital (DC) would have been surrounded by Southern states.

No denying it....MD was a southern state.

A bit of trivia; the name of the song/poem is "Maryland! My Maryland", not "Maryland, My Maryland" as is it is now commonly referred. The poem was written by Maryland resident James Randall in response to his buddy having been killed by Union troops during one of the Baltimore riots. Randall himself was a Confederate sympathizer and the song did become a Confederate battle hymn. That does not, however, mean that he was speaking for the entire State. The Eastern Shore and the southern nub of Maryland were pro-Confederacy; Western Maryland, with its large concentration of German immigrants-who largely, if not entirely-opposed slavery, and Central Maryland itself was roughly equally split.

Governor Hicks (Maryland) originally was pro-Union. He never became pro-Confederate but he did change is tune to wanting the Union Army out of Maryland: mainly in response to the treatment of Marylanders by Union troops during the Baltimore riots. Governor Letcher of Virginia wanted for Virginia to ultimately remain independent and had hopes of Virginia, Maryland, Kentucky, and Delaware to form their own confederacy. Like Gov. Letcher, Gov. Hicks would rather have stayed out of the whole thing.

Lincoln did not give the okay to arrest anyone initially, but after a special assembly was held by Gov. Hicks (in western Maryland. It was originally planned to be held in Annapolis, but Union troops who were guarding the city threatened to drop the hammer on anyone who was pro-secession, so the assembly was moved to near Frederick. As such, the assembly was out-of-reach to some Representatives, in particularly those from the Eastern Shore. Some historians believe that if it were held in Annapolis the outcome may have been different), and it was agreed upon during that assembly, that Maryland would not secede (some members of the assembly, if even Southern sympathizers, agreed that Maryland, because of its geological location, simply had no choice). It was not until after this event that Lincoln gave the okay to squash any secessionists who attempted rebellion by any means necessary-which did freak a lot of people out, even those who were pro-Union, on the potential of such actions being unConstitutional.

I suggest looking into how Virginia ended up entering the Civil War as well as the Restored Government of Virginia (sometimes referred to as the Reorginized Government of Virginia) as it was generally felt that what happened in Virginia would also happen in Maryland. Virginia wanted to remain independent, for the most. It was not until Confederate troops marched in, took control of Richmond, and of Northern Virginia, and a brand new pro-Confederate Governor, that Virginia's hand was played for the entire State. Eastern and northern Virginia, mainly because of German immigrants as well, did not support the Confederacy. Don't forget that a second, pro-Union, government (see first sentence of this paragraph) was set up in Virginia complete with its own pro-Union Governor after Virginia seceded.

(the Restored Government also helped create the State of West Virginia, by the way, which at the time was partially controlled by Confederate forces).

There is no evidence that during antebellum Maryland was solid Southern. Nor afterwards, either. Historical evidence shows that Maryland has shared economic and social similarities between both the North and the South prior to and after the Civil War: the railroad, industry, and financial institutions were most definitely Northern. Culturally and socially, Southern. Politically, more-than-likely "more" Southern than Northern for the most part but in terms of personal and Constitutional freedoms, not necessarily with slavery. Maryland also sent more troops to the Union Army than it did to the Confederate Army; 2:1 if I remember correctly.

Any President, regardless of sympathies (or lack thereof) would have done the same thing; protect DC. Occupying and controlling DC (and Congress) was a major Military objective of the Confederacy and its defense by that of the Union. Do you not think that a pro-Confederate President would not have done the same thing even if Maryland went with the Confederacy? With DCs proximity to the Pennsylvanian border you better believe that a pro-Southern President would have surrounded DC with Confederate troops for the same reasons that Lincoln did.

My history is a little rusty regarding Maryland (I was, after all, born and raised in California: the entirety of my mom's side being from Virginia and South Carolina, my father's, from Pennsylvania. I really have no stake in this either way ). Please correct me if my information is wrong.

That poem though, interestingly enough, did not become Maryland's official State song until 1939, nearly 80 years after the Civil War. It seems odd that the song was adopted during such modern times and that Maryland's "Democratic-controlled" government refuses to change the lyrics each time Congress has "encouraged" them to do so. I wonder if O'Malley hums it while in the shower?

Maryland is simply Mid-Atlantic, Tidewater, border, or what-ever.