Why Did You Move Out Of Maryland.... (Baltimore, Silver Spring: car insurance, loan)

[westsideboy]

Downstaters are clustered around Deep Creek, but the rest of Western Maryland is still purging population, not gaining

[Tom Lennox 70]

Originally Posted by Orwelleaut

I'm 37, grew up in Montgomery county back in the 1980's, lived near Cumberland 1990-1992. I left in '92, at the age of 20, moving to PA, and later Ohio. I've never wanted to move back, though my parents still live in the house I grew up in.

Why did I leave?? I'll start with why I went to Western MD from the Washington area. My public schools were a zoo. My parents live in an upper middle class neighborhood, but the public school, from middle school forward, was filled with rough kids from the public housing projects Montgomery County had built in the burbs. My education was good academically, and, I have come to realize, academically superior to what folks get in more modest income states.

Socially, though, I have come to realize that Montgomery County public schools were an absolute train wreck. I carried a switch blade from 7'th grade forward out of fear for my physical safety, even though I was an honors student who went on to college. I had to pull the thing a few times, too, because the teachers didn't even try to keep the stupid thugs from the projects under control. In other metro areas, such as Cleveland or Pittsburgh, only those who grew up in certain low income areas experienced this type of violence in their schools. When I tell people from elsewhere about the violence in my public school, they are rightfully apalled.

Sick of the violence in the public schools, the high crime of the D.C. area, and the attitude of so many people, I went off to college out by Cumberland. I was impressed by the friendliness of the people there, the low crime, and the healthy feel of the society. It was in state for reasonable tuition, but felt a lot like the small town in PA where my Dad grew up, and where my Grandmother lived.

After two years in Western MD living on campus, I loved the area, but was tired of being on campus with the "downstaters". I was tired of their ignorant attitude toward the Western MD locals, constantly describing them as stupid rednecks. I was particularly sickened by the attitude of the black students from downstate towards the locals. They tried to pretend that the locals were racist because few blacks lived in the area, and because they claimed that locals stared at them in public. Since many of them tended to be rather loud and obnoxious in public, though, it was no wonder they were garnering some stares.

Since my Grandmother's hometown in PA was not far away and she was getting pretty old, I had taken to spending a lot of weekends up in PA. I started to meet and talk to students from a PA state school which was nearby, and was taking a real liking to PA. My peer group seemed much more friendly and down to earth, just like my Dad's relatives.

After my second year of college, I transferred to this PA school. I graduated from here, and met the woman who would become my lovely wife. We have lived in Western PA and Ohio since graduating, and would not want to live in MD. My wife is appalled at the violence I had to witness and fear in my public schools. Her parents live in a far more humble suburb in the PIttsburgh area than where my folks live. Her school was truly drug free in the late eighties. There were the typical few bad kids who tried to pick fights, but it was basically very peaceful. The key was that the county had not built public housing projects in the area for no good reason. These projects were in the older industrial boroughs where the low income people lived.

I would never want to live in MD again, especially now. The cost of living is prohibitive. Our Western PA/Ohio cost of living is far cheaper. Our salaries are a little smaller, but basically, our money goes a lot farther. When I visit MD now, I feel like a visitor. I even hear the MD accent!! Recently, when visiting my folks, my wife and I were asked if we were from the midwest, and told that we had midwestern accents. The only spot in MD I would even consider would be Garrett or Allegany counties, as long as the area hasn't been inundated by downstaters in recent years. Overall, I'd prefer to stay farther West.

I agree with a lot of the ignorance of people in central Maryland about people from other parts of the state. Since I'm Asian people are always shocked that I felt I fit in better on the Eastern Shore than Montgomery County. One of my friends who is a vocal liberal honestly, seriously believes that anyone who thinks a pharmacist should be able to not fill the morning pill or who is a conservative anti-abortion Christian is also a racist who would never hire or be friends with a non-white person. This guy went to college and is a very educated person and I was just shocked he seriously believed that. There are many people who think all conservatives or people in small towns are racist which from personal experience I know is not true. I spent a week on in Cambridge and Salisbury for a pharmacy school rotation and will be actually going to Easton next week. I like that area since I am a laid back and conservative person.

About the black students at your school (I assume Frostburg right?) my roommate in undergrad had a black friend who said Harford County was racist because he got stares when he went there. I also know that this person never drives his car without his radio so loud you can hear it two blocks away. So maybe that was the reason people were not welcoming?

[Orwelleaut]

Frostburg is the campus. I basically enjoyed Frostburg, especially the local area. Cumberland, at least in 1990-1992, was a pretty pleasant little city. Since I grew up with Western PA relatives, though, I think I understood Cumberland better than most downstaters. I knew that poverty does not equal stupidity or laziness, and that industrial jobs leaving an area does not make the locals lazy.

When I was going to Frostburg, there were a couple of local black people working in maintenance on campus. They were integrated socially into the local community in a total way. They spoke just like their white friends, were always with their white friends, and did not seem to think twice about this. They were with their white friends on lunch break, kidded around with and cut up with their white friends in the most natural way. The local white community was obviously very accepting of non-white individuals. What many of the downstaters did not understand was that, in small town America, people know each other. The big thing with Western Marylanders was that they felt at ease around folks they knew. Suspicion of the unknown is natural in a small community, but is not a problem for newcomers who are willing to prove that they are trustworthy. Once you are known and trusted in a small town, it becomes home. Folks that once eyed you cautiously will give you the shirt off of their back. Like Billy Joel once sang: "It's only just a matter of trust".

[The_Fairfaxian]

Originally Posted by Orwelleaut

Frostburg is the campus. I basically enjoyed Frostburg, especially the local area. Cumberland, at least in 1990-1992, was a pretty pleasant little city. Since I grew up with Western PA relatives, though, I think I understood Cumberland better than most downstaters. I knew that poverty does not equal stupidity or laziness, and that industrial jobs leaving an area does not make the locals lazy.

When I was going to Frostburg, there were a couple of local black people working in maintenance on campus. They were integrated socially into the local community in a total way. They spoke just like their white friends, were always with their white friends, and did not seem to think twice about this. They were with their white friends on lunch break, kidded around with and cut up with their white friends in the most natural way. The local white community was obviously very accepting of non-white individuals. What many of the downstaters did not understand was that, in small town America, people know each other. The big thing with Western Marylanders was that they felt at ease around folks they knew. Suspicion of the unknown is natural in a small community, but is not a problem for newcomers who are willing to prove that they are trustworthy. Once you are known and trusted in a small town, it becomes home. Folks that once eyed you cautiously will give you the shirt off of their back. Like Billy Joel once sang: "It's only just a matter of trust".

While you're on that, I can definitely see the difference in behavior between those in the Appalachian/Allegheny region than that from "downstaters" from more liberal places. As a person of predominate African descent who is considered by society to be more "assimilated," I have noticed that people in that region aren't as racist as one would expect. This is from my experience while going to college in Pittsburgh; although it's not in the same state, the regional atmosphere is similar. During my experiences in Pittsburgh and throughout most of Western PA, I actually felt a real sense of ease and noticed that I didn't have to worry about the color of my skin (i.e. I wasn't negatively reminded of it by most of the inhabitants). Even though I heard a lot of things that would be considered un-PC by the liberal elite, most of it was either due to a lack of knowledge or out of pure joking around. And even though I did hear slightly more racial epithets, it wasn't commonplace nor was it the sentiment of most people I met, especially those my age and even many mid-age adults.

The same however can't be said for Central neo-liberal Maryland. Someone mentioned that how certain blacks who stood out as stereotypical would complain about getting uninviting glares and stares - which is one thing. Well in the "liberal" part of Maryland, I have never in my life received so many "stares" along with other subtle signs of racial prejudice in my life (and this is while wearing the exact same preppy clothing as these whites and other non-blacks). Not to mention that it was while attending UMD that for the first time I was ever addressed as a n*gger...not n*gga, which has been said in non-negative way by my close friends when completely wasted [and I would counter w/ a racial joke of my own], but I was called a n*gger! Note that I was around during the time when a noose was hung on campus as well, which the student reaction from whites and other non-blacks ranged mostly from neutral to gleeful of the incident. I'm not saying that the Appalachian/Allegheny region is the most progressive, but the last thing these "liberals" from Central MD need to be doing is bashing people from the Western Panhandle about being racist rednecks (bashing Southern MD for their racism however is slightly more justified).

[Orwelleaut]

Wow!! That is very interesting. I'm glad to hear that you had positive experiences in Western PA. How one behaves is what we should be judged on, and it sounds like you felt that to be the case in Western PA.

Western PA and the surrounding sections of OH, WV, and MD are a unique region, as I am sure you are aware of. This section of our great country has always had a lot of ethnic diversity. At the same time, this region had always had more of a small town feel than most regions. The little towns, as well as the distinct neighborhoods and industrial boroughs of greater Pittsburgh, developed from day one with ethnic diversity as a feature of everyday life. Italians, Poles, Slovaks, Ukrainians, and people from every country in Europe would settle in a single town. A village of a couple hundred might have a Lutheran church, a Catholic church, a Russian Orthodox Church, or even a Synagogue. Over the years, the descendants of the original immigrants, from growing up together and spending their lives in close proximity, became more united by what town they were from than by things like being Greek or German. After a while, everyone in certain towns enjoyed Pierogies, for example, even if they weren't Polish. Suspicion, as a result, was of those you hadn't met before regardless of their race or ethnicity, not of someone based on that. Strange behaviors from strangers, I think, is what garners suspicion around here.

[westsideboy]

Group identity in these places is very different than the rest of the East Coast. I am sure there is presitage associated with living in Bethesda or Chevy Chase, but I think people from most of the 'burbs would identify pretty closely with one another as being from "the same place." Whether you end up living in Rockville, Gaithersburg, Columbia, Damasacus, etc. has more to do with commute times and income level than any real sense of a different identity.

In the mountains it is much different. Allegany County towns each have their own identity, their own churches, their own volunteer organizations, their own schools (formerly, most are consolidated now.) The George's Creek area of the county is the best example. In a 20 mile stretch you have Midland, Gilmore, Shaft, Ocean, Lonaconing, Knapps Valley, Klondike, Carlos, Detmold, Jackson, Barton, Pekin (Nikep), Moscow, Franklin, and Westernport. All of these places cling strongly to a sense of individiuality. Confusing (or looking confused) any of these little hamlets with each other is a quick way to be pegged as an outsider.

[Orwelleaut]

I remember driving through those towns along U.S. 220 well back in 1990-92. Only went down to Westernport and Luke once, but used to go over to Cresaptown alot. I thought about buying a pretty nice Ford Maverick coupe from a little used car place there in Cresaptown. Being a college student, though, I just didn't have the money, LOL!! The fella that ran the dealership must have known that I didn't have the money to buy the Maverick, so I'd have to say, looking back, that it was pretty nice of him to let me drive the car several times. He knew I was from "up 'ere at the college", so he probably would have been surprised if I had come in with 1200 in cash!!

The other place down that way that I have great memories of is Dan's Rock. Beautiful spot!!

Is Fred Warner's German Restaurant still in business in Cresaptown, westside? That was one excellent restaurant!!

[westsideboy]

No Warners closed sometime around the turn of the century. Building is still vacant as far as I know. Not too many people go "down the crick" unless they have to. It is off the beaten path. I still find places there I have never seen. Very interesting place.

Dan's Rock is still going strong although the 2 dozen 500 ft. windmills they want to put up there will significantly alter the experience of looking out over the mountainous terrain of 4 states. Harmless, well meaning tax shelter at best, long term rape of the land more accurate explanation.

[AeroGuyDC]

Originally Posted by myselfdotcom

Funny you mentioned that. Really Raleigh, Charlotte area the cost of living is really comparable to Maryland except the housing. In fact some of the things in NC is more expensive that MD....

I'm from NC now living in MD...please enlighten me on what exactly in MD is comparable to the cost of living in NC? lol You eliminated housing, and that's a fair assessment. But I can tell you right now I suffered sticker-shock just going to the grocery store!

[oneofthethree]

Originally Posted by The_Fairfaxian

While you're on that, I can definitely see the difference in behavior between those in the Appalachian/Allegheny region than that from "downstaters" from more liberal places. As a person of predominate African descent who is considered by society to be more "assimilated," I have noticed that people in that region aren't as racist as one would expect. This is from my experience while going to college in Pittsburgh; although it's not in the same state, the regional atmosphere is similar. During my experiences in Pittsburgh and throughout most of Western PA, I actually felt a real sense of ease and noticed that I didn't have to worry about the color of my skin (i.e. I wasn't negatively reminded of it by most of the inhabitants). Even though I heard a lot of things that would be considered un-PC by the liberal elite, most of it was either due to a lack of knowledge or out of pure joking around. And even though I did hear slightly more racial epithets, it wasn't commonplace nor was it the sentiment of most people I met, especially those my age and even many mid-age adults.

The same however can't be said for Central neo-liberal Maryland. Someone mentioned that how certain blacks who stood out as stereotypical would complain about getting uninviting glares and stares - which is one thing. Well in the "liberal" part of Maryland, I have never in my life received so many "stares" along with other subtle signs of racial prejudice in my life (and this is while wearing the exact same preppy clothing as these whites and other non-blacks). Not to mention that it was while attending UMD that for the first time I was ever addressed as a n*gger...not n*gga, which has been said in non-negative way by my close friends when completely wasted [and I would counter w/ a racial joke of my own], but I was called a n*gger! Note that I was around during the time when a noose was hung on campus as well, which the student reaction from whites and other non-blacks ranged mostly from neutral to gleeful of the incident. I'm not saying that the Appalachian/Allegheny region is the most progressive, but the last thing these "liberals" from Central MD need to be doing is bashing people from the Western Panhandle about being racist rednecks (bashing Southern MD for their racism however is slightly more justified).

Yeah, it happens in anne arundel county to. I have a friend who lives there. She has had white people pull up on her on two seperate occasions and yell n****r, go back to Africa. And I had a problem once around the aberdeen/havre de grace area. All i was doing was getting some gas and it was a very bad experience. But I have a friend from down south, from Fayetsville, North Carolina, and it is a lot worse down south, Maryland is nothing compared to that lol. My friend said he's heard plenty of the "N" word yelled at him, and a lot all the white people in his area still called black dudes "Boi".