Talbot County council votes to keep Confederate statue (Baltimore, Laurel: live in, suburban)

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

I never claimed or implied I was not part of category#1, just that your analysis was overly simplistic. I can add an alternative perspective to some other posters. A council decision also qualifies as a local decision.

Sometimes situations are simple, and nuance is a weapon used to cloud the issue.

It's pretty clear you would have objected to ANY local decision that keeps the statue up, be it a council vote or a referendum.

Unlike mobs who tear down statues, elected officials are accountable for their actions and if their decision does not meet the expectations of those they represent, the local decision will be to boot them.......as it should be.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

It's pretty clear you would have objected to ANY local decision that keeps the statue up...

That's finally getting through eh? Yes, that is exactly the position.
(yet again... NONE should have ever gone up. Anywhere. ALL need to come down. Everywhere.

On point it's the CORRECT and DECENT position and the one which will prevail even there.
The referendum nonsense you hide behind is just another delaying tactic... NOT governance.

[The Very Man Himself]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Sometimes situations are simple, and nuance is a weapon used to cloud the issue.

It's pretty clear you would have objected to ANY local decision that keeps the statue up, be it a council vote or a referendum.

Unlike mobs who tear down statues, elected officials are accountable for their actions and if their decision does not meet the expectations of those they represent, the local decision will be to boot them.......as it should be.

Of course, I'd have objected, I want to see the statue removed. For a guy who professes to have "no opinion" on the matter you seemed determined to oppose those who do have an opinion. Hypocritical or contradictory,take your pick.

It may have escaped your attention that the only decision the council took was to not take a decision on the issue, and pass the substantive matter to the electorate. So, your statement is internally contradictory.*

Whether the councillors retain*their*jobs or not, it will not be because they voted to either retain or remove the statue. I think you need to "game out" the possible scenarios.

While I don't condone protestors (mobs to you), tearing*down monuments, the consequences of their*actions are much less severe (to the inanimate objects) than the consequences suffered by real people, such as those killed and injured in Charlottesville, and elsewhere.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

Of course, I'd have objected, I want to see the statue removed. For a guy who professes to have "no opinion" on the matter you seemed determined to oppose those who do have an opinion. Hypocritical or contradictory,take your pick.

It may have escaped your attention that the only decision the council took was to not take a decision on the issue, and pass the substantive matter to the electorate. So, your statement is internally contradictory.*

Whether the councillors retain*their*jobs or not, it will not be because they voted to either retain or remove the statue. I think you need to "game out" the possible scenarios.

While I don't condone protestors (mobs to you), tearing*down monuments, the consequences of their*actions are much less severe (to the inanimate objects) than the consequences suffered by real people, such as those killed and injured in Charlottesville, and elsewhere.

Neither, my statements are consistent with my 13 year posting history here. Stick around awhile and you will see for yourself.

I am on the side of rural people making their own decisions, whether I personally agree with those decisions or not, rather than our communities constantly being dictated to by our suburban/transplant dominated state. You can deflect from this basic question of goverance as much as you want, but it isn't what I am here to discuss.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MrRational

That's finally getting through eh? Yes, that is exactly the position.
(yet again... NONE should have ever gone up. Anywhere. ALL need to come down. Everywhere.

On point it's the CORRECT and DECENT position and the one which will prevail even there.
The referendum nonsense you hide behind is just another delaying tactic... NOT governance.

You've been pretty up front with what you believe, other posters have been obscuring their only acceptable end game outcome with procedural arguments about the sausage making nature of governing.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

...with procedural arguments about the sausage making nature of governing.

The sausage making if it happens at all should only occur AFTER the statues are removed from public grounds
while the old ladies sort out which CSA cemetery has room for yet another one. (There is no shortage of such already around)

The old ladies can pay rent to the scrap dealer for storing it for the duration.
After X time (6 weeks?) it gets scrapped.

The ONLY question is about the circumstances of removal.
A proper rigging company or a mob. I really don't care which.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MrRational

The sausage making if it happens at all should only occur AFTER the statues are removed from public grounds
while the old ladies sort out which CSA cemetery has room for yet another one. (There is no shortage of such already around)

The old ladies can pay rent to the scrap dealer for storing it for the duration.
After X time (6 weeks?) it gets scrapped.

The ONLY question is about the circumstances of removal.
A proper rigging company or a mob. I really don't care which.

I appreciate the honesty. Maybe I will catch a glimpse of you in some mob photos from NC. Be sure to wear a crab hat, or something similar, that IDs you as a Marylander.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I appreciate the honesty.

Thanks. It's substantially the same sentiment I've had for close to forty years.
(My first adult trip into Richmond when I saw those statues on display ... all finally removed now. By riggers.)

Maybe I will catch a glimpse of you in some mob photos from NC.

Ha! You won't see me but you might see my well raised adult son in the crowd.

Wherever the 'governance' doesn't have the decency and fortitude to do it right. And now.
I'm just embarrassed that this describes any part of Maryland.

[Chief Sipwiaac]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

Of course, I'd have objected, I want to see the statue removed. For a guy who professes to have "no opinion" on the matter you seemed determined to oppose those who do have an opinion.

Yeah, I have to agree with this, it seems weird that someone who literally wants it torn down is so adamantly against other people wanting to tear it down. I understand your point that you want to give people autonomy over their communities, but it seems strange that you actively support them making a choice that you don't agree with. Also, if you want to give the people who you deem to not be "transplants" autonomy, there are a bunch of other demographics that you should section off from jurisdiction from the state. Why not give inner city Baltimore the right to do what they want? How about Salvadoran apartment complexes in PG county? If you take this train of thought to the extreme you'll indefinitely keep on sectioning off people who don't precisely fit the "transplant" type to the point where there is no more centralized governing body.

[The Very Man Himself]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Neither, my statements are consistent with my 13 year posting history here. Stick around awhile and you will see for yourself.

I am on the side of rural people making their own decisions, whether I personally agree with those decisions or not, rather than our communities constantly being dictated to by our suburban/transplant dominated state. You can deflect from this basic question of goverance as much as you want, but it isn't what I am here to discuss.

Length of time or volume of posting is not a substitute for quality posting. The fact that you've attempted to play the "seniority card" on me after just a few posts, exemplifies that, as does your false implication in your reply to Mr. Rational, that I've been attempting to obscure my motives.
I don't know anyone on the remove side attempting to obscure their motives, which appear obvious. Seems to me to be much more prevalent on the retain side, because of the fear of being labeled a racist.

So, you'd rather accept a bad decision on any issue, made by rural people, over a good decision made by suburban people. That reminds me of the expression "there are none so blind as those who will not see".

I understand your desire for local control, that's normal, but rural Md is not an independent*island, and it's clear you feel victimised by suburbanites. Anger is one of the most common attributes of victimhood. Angry people often express views and make decisions*they otherwise wouldn't, and later regret.