White Flight in Bowie?! (Laurel, Kensington: to rent, low crime, buying a home)

[lscalder]

I live in the nice,quiet area in PG county and I have no plans on moving to Montgomery County.
I love Upper Marlboro.

[trying2moveup]

Originally Posted by Moth

As would most of the sane population of the universe.

But I suspect most would also prefer a good part of MoCo over a good part of PG, on most days.

And the reasons for that would be . . .. . .??????
If good is good, why MoCo over PG.

This should be interesting. . . .

[Tom Lennox 70]

Bowie and Greenbelt are all filling up with illegal immigrants and are going downhill. I'm a minority and I don't think its necessary to be in a school that's "at least 10% black"...its not like minorities will be shunned. If anything, schools with fewer minorities are actually mroe integrated where the minorities integrate with the mainstream community rather than form their own cliques and self-segregate.

Maybe you can consider Waldorf in Charles County which is I think 30 minutes from DC and Alexandria.

[RoadTripGurl]

Yeah I agree about the education. The quality of the education is more important than anything. I used to have the same atittude, until my son got into a higher performing school and he started performing better than when we were in PG Schools. As a product of the PG County public school system, I must say there were too many distractions beyond the typical peer pressure, etc. It was hard being an advocate for my child and trying to represent every other child going through the same challenges/obstacles as mine. I am happy things are turning around, I just hope they improve 100% better soon for the sake of the children. The schools need to be performing better.

[trying2moveup]

Everywhere around here is filling up with illegal immigrants - everywhere. If you think not because you don't see it as obviously in some areas than in others, you are in for a surprise. EVERYWHERE is filling up with illegal and legal immigrants. That is because the government social programs to assist incoming immigrants - legal and illegal - are numerous around here and they are NOWHERE MORE NUMEROUS THAN IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY. Do a google search and find out more. Maryland is amongst the most liberal of states when it comes to government assistance programs and Casa di Maryland (which is primarily in MoCo if not exclusively) is on the top of the list of making Montgomery County an illegal immigrant sanctuary where penality of law does not apply in any area.

Where are the children of these peeps going to go to school - you got it, good ole Montgomery County. . . and they will spread upwards form southern MoCo into central and northern MoCo. Once that purple Metro line gets built- then its going to spread out to the western parts (i.e., Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Potomac) as well. The Eastern part is already an immigrant mecca.

So to the "Bowie and Greenbelt" poster, that seems to be in line with what is happening in Bowie and Greenbelt.

To everyone who comments about the "higher performing schools" -- I have seen this remark over and over again on this forum about how one's children performed so much better once out of PG schools (or Baltimore City schools or wherever schools). . . why is it that their performance level was so bad previous to that? Do you mean your child went from a D student in, say, PG schools to a B or A student in MoCo schools. Why was that D allowed to stand in the first place if - obviously - the ability to achieve was there. I mean, from what I read here from certain people PG schools are such a skate that it SHOULD work the other way around. . . you have an A in PG and go do a D in MoCo where everything is so much up to par (I'll come back to this in a minute. . .)

I agree that there are situations that occur everyday in schools where the students that behave and achieve are ignored at the behest of those who do not and are lacking in their performance. That is a fact. However, I know for my own children, and they are being taught this now by my husband and myself and our expectations of behavior in preschool, that if I EVER get a call from the school/teacher/principal/admin that is not on a positive note about their behavior or performance in school then their lives will cease to exist as they know it until they have turned that situation completely around. . . it 100% starts in the home - NO EXCUSES. It is not the school system's job to raise your child - no matter how much the liberal left wants to jam a million social programs down your throat to make it seem that way. These kids are somewhere for years before they hit HeadStart or Kindergarten and THAT IS WHERE THE EXPECTATIONS AND SETTING THE BAR NO MATTER WHO IS DOING CARTWHEELS AROUND YOU IN SCHOOL STARTS. So many people want to abdicate this responsibility because it is hard. And it IS HARD. And that is why parenting (parenting -= caring,involvement, listening, discipling. NOT buying whatever your kid wants, letting him/her do whatever she wants. . .BEING THEIR FRIEND ( a no, no, they have a million already and that is not YOUR rold) is truly the hardest job one will ever do (and love).

It's hard to advocate but it is our job as parents to do it no matter what, no matter how hard, no matter how tiring, just as it is to discipline and set a positive role model forth no matter how sick we are on a particular day, no matter how short our patience may be. ..

Now back to that A and D scenario. When I started teaching, I started in PG county in 1996. My roommate was also a first year teacher with me and she taught Kindergarten while I taught second grade. By the time we both left PG County four years later, she was teaching 1st and I was teaching fourth grade. We both starting working for MoCo. She went back to teaching Kindergarten. This was the year before Weast came aboard as superintendent of MoCo. She was completely and utterly appalled that basically her Kindergarten class was all about socialization (which in my mind is developmentally appropriate but you know how it is these days - if your kid can't read in Kindergarten then something is completely wrong. . .) because WHILE SHE WAS IN PG she was teaching reading and math basic concepts and it was NOT all about how to play and "get along." Well, one thing I have to say is that Weast came in and got rid of what amounted to extended day care for all the Kindergartners and got them on the academic track. Now I feel it has gone too far as basically Kindergarten is now first grade. But my point is. . .. not tooooo long ago MoCo was just as loosey goosey with their curriculum all across the board as many think PG is/was.

Another thing many people may not know is that MoCo recruits and hires many people - myself included - from PG on open contracts. Why do you think this is??? If PG sucks soooo badly, why would GRAND MOCO want their teachers. I came on in 2000. In 1999 the rumor was PG was going to sue MoCo because they were recruiting away so many teachers from the county. I know this because my principal was (gasp!) recruited and hired to open a brand new elementary school in MoCo and he could take a percentage of his staff with him. Then they cut that number because of that potential lawsuit.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that no one, and especially myself, know the whole picture when it comes to how these school systems work. There is much, much, MUCH MORE that goes on that the "average Joe parent" has no idea about. You have to get into the schools and get educated and involved (not circling on the periphery to make comments and try to dictate what should happen - if you really don't like what is going on, that is what the BOE is for) and THAT is what makes alot of difference in how a school is run and its performance no matter what county it is in.

[kjg1963]

I've never understood why people think that when "Johnny" gets a D in algebra in a PG Co. school, that its because the curriculum is subpar and the schools are failing him. Most of the time its the kids themselves that are the problem. After a certain age, the desire to learn diminishes. Most elementary schools in PG are comparable in performance as schools in other counties. It is the Middle and High Schools where things seem to deteriorate. I don't think this is the fault of the curriculum used by PG. PG is not making kids have a mediocre education. Its the lack of performance by a child that gives them a mediocre education. Why would a kid who receives Ds and Es year after year be placed in more challenging classes? If you are only learning the basics, its because that's all youv'e proven you can do.

On the other hand, PG offers many advanced placement courses for the students that want to be challenged and prove it by making the grades. My daughter is in the Science and Tech at Roosevelt. I'm glad I never had to take the courses she does. The difficulty of some of the classes makes me wonder how any kid graduates from that program. My son was in PG schools until 10th grade and then he moved to Carroll County with his father. He was well advanced (course of study, not intelligence) of the kids up there. He had always been a good student, but he ended up finishing 12th grade with straight A's. Not because he's a genius, but because the coursework was taught at a slower pace (to the point of boredom) and was not as challenging as he was used to.

School is what you make of it and, unfortunately, the students are letting themselves down.

[lscalder]

Originally Posted by trying2moveup

Everywhere around here is filling up with illegal immigrants - everywhere. If you think not because you don't see it as obviously in some areas than in others, you are in for a surprise. EVERYWHERE is filling up with illegal and legal immigrants. That is because the government social programs to assist incoming immigrants - legal and illegal - are numerous around here and they are NOWHERE MORE NUMEROUS THAN IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY. Do a google search and find out more. Maryland is amongst the most liberal of states when it comes to government assistance programs and Casa di Maryland (which is primarily in MoCo if not exclusively) is on the top of the list of making Montgomery County an illegal immigrant sanctuary where penality of law does not apply in any area.

Where are the children of these peeps going to go to school - you got it, good ole Montgomery County. . . and they will spread upwards form southern MoCo into central and northern MoCo. Once that purple Metro line gets built- then its going to spread out to the western parts (i.e., Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Potomac) as well. The Eastern part is already an immigrant mecca.

So to the "Bowie and Greenbelt" poster, that seems to be in line with what is happening in Bowie and Greenbelt.

To everyone who comments about the "higher performing schools" -- I have seen this remark over and over again on this forum about how one's children performed so much better once out of PG schools (or Baltimore City schools or wherever schools). . . why is it that their performance level was so bad previous to that? Do you mean your child went from a D student in, say, PG schools to a B or A student in MoCo schools. Why was that D allowed to stand in the first place if - obviously - the ability to achieve was there. I mean, from what I read here from certain people PG schools are such a skate that it SHOULD work the other way around. . . you have an A in PG and go do a D in MoCo where everything is so much up to par (I'll come back to this in a minute. . .)

I agree that there are situations that occur everyday in schools where the students that behave and achieve are ignored at the behest of those who do not and are lacking in their performance. That is a fact. However, I know for my own children, and they are being taught this now by my husband and myself and our expectations of behavior in preschool, that if I EVER get a call from the school/teacher/principal/admin that is not on a positive note about their behavior or performance in school then their lives will cease to exist as they know it until they have turned that situation completely around. . . it 100% starts in the home - NO EXCUSES. It is not the school system's job to raise your child - no matter how much the liberal left wants to jam a million social programs down your throat to make it seem that way. These kids are somewhere for years before they hit HeadStart or Kindergarten and THAT IS WHERE THE EXPECTATIONS AND SETTING THE BAR NO MATTER WHO IS DOING CARTWHEELS AROUND YOU IN SCHOOL STARTS. So many people want to abdicate this responsibility because it is hard. And it IS HARD. And that is why parenting (parenting -= caring,involvement, listening, discipling. NOT buying whatever your kid wants, letting him/her do whatever she wants. . .BEING THEIR FRIEND ( a no, no, they have a million already and that is not YOUR rold) is truly the hardest job one will ever do (and love).

It's hard to advocate but it is our job as parents to do it no matter what, no matter how hard, no matter how tiring, just as it is to discipline and set a positive role model forth no matter how sick we are on a particular day, no matter how short our patience may be. ..

Now back to that A and D scenario. When I started teaching, I started in PG county in 1996. My roommate was also a first year teacher with me and she taught Kindergarten while I taught second grade. By the time we both left PG County four years later, she was teaching 1st and I was teaching fourth grade. We both starting working for MoCo. She went back to teaching Kindergarten. This was the year before Weast came aboard as superintendent of MoCo. She was completely and utterly appalled that basically her Kindergarten class was all about socialization (which in my mind is developmentally appropriate but you know how it is these days - if your kid can't read in Kindergarten then something is completely wrong. . .) because WHILE SHE WAS IN PG she was teaching reading and math basic concepts and it was NOT all about how to play and "get along." Well, one thing I have to say is that Weast came in and got rid of what amounted to extended day care for all the Kindergartners and got them on the academic track. Now I feel it has gone too far as basically Kindergarten is now first grade. But my point is. . .. not tooooo long ago MoCo was just as loosey goosey with their curriculum all across the board as many think PG is/was.

Another thing many people may not know is that MoCo recruits and hires many people - myself included - from PG on open contracts. Why do you think this is??? If PG sucks soooo badly, why would GRAND MOCO want their teachers. I came on in 2000. In 1999 the rumor was PG was going to sue MoCo because they were recruiting away so many teachers from the county. I know this because my principal was (gasp!) recruited and hired to open a brand new elementary school in MoCo and he could take a percentage of his staff with him. Then they cut that number because of that potential lawsuit.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that no one, and especially myself, know the whole picture when it comes to how these school systems work. There is much, much, MUCH MORE that goes on that the "average Joe parent" has no idea about. You have to get into the schools and get educated and involved (not circling on the periphery to make comments and try to dictate what should happen - if you really don't like what is going on, that is what the BOE is for) and THAT is what makes alot of difference in how a school is run and its performance no matter what county it is in.

I enjoy reading your post. You speak the truth and I am so thankful that you have joined city data.

[Bigbluelandrover]

Tryingtomoveup,

I agree with your stance that the parents and kids have to give a damn to make any school system successful. Funny thing is that I remember a time when parents did not involve themselves as much as they do now. The parents that do care are considered annoying and pesky. It can’t work both ways, either you all want involvement or the hands off parent. I know last year with work and school my kids suffered. I cannot imagine what single moms, people that work 2 jobs, immigrants and illiterate parents do (a LOT of Americans are illiterate).
I saw a post of yours that had to be about a year old last night when I was looking for information on some neighborhoods and at that time you said the administration in PG was bad AND the schools there were bad. So now you have a change or heart and want to go back to PG. That is cool. PG is not an option for me and I wish I had never mentioned Moco.(because of commuting) I like the area I am in and yes my daughter goes to school with brats but she likes her teachers and she is doing well. My son likes his HS and his school is not run down. All of Silver Spring (which includes far north Cloverly, and Hampshire Estates communities) still have good schools.
The OP started out with the topic of WHITE FLIGHT which no one has addressed yet!. This has become another Moco-vs-PG BS thread because coming from the Midwest either Moco nor PG are all that for the $400k+ you have to pay to still live in a piece of crap house. Yeah I am going to be pretty darn picky as a buyer because it does not make since that PG residents pay higher property taxes than Moco.

[Bigbluelandrover]

And Another thing many people may not know is that MoCo recruits and hires many people - myself included - from PG on open contracts. Why do you think this is??? If PG sucks soooo badly, why would GRAND MOCO want their teachers. I came on in 2000. In 1999 the rumor was PG was going to sue MoCo because they were recruiting away so many teachers from the county. I know this because my principal was (gasp!) recruited and hired to open a brand new elementary school in MoCo and he could take a percentage of his staff with him. Then they cut that number because of that potential lawsuit.

Surburbian schools all over the country do this. It has nothing to do with PG in particular. The suburbian school gets to hire in a teacher with ex. 5 years of experience AND she already has her Masters, SO they do not have to invest in additional education hrs AND the school gets to log her years of experience and report that to the state fot rankings and testing purposes. In the meantime the urban schools like DC and PG suffer because studies have shown that newbie teachers have to stay in the field so that they can hit that stride and become a good teacher. Former education major here. My mother in law taught 40yrs in a VERY bad area so I have heard enough.

I have personal reasons (like almost getting raped on a school playground in the 1st grade) as to why I am so critical of "urban" schools. My bias would be that was if it were a bad school in the countryside of Charles County or PG..to me bad is more than some test score.

[Skapov]

Originally Posted by Bigbluelandrover

Tryingtomoveup,

I agree with your stance that the parents and kids have to give a damn to make any school system successful. Funny thing is that I remember a time when parents did not involve themselves as much as they do now. The parents that do care are considered annoying and pesky. It can’t work both ways, either you all want involvement or the hands off parent. I know last year with work and school my kids suffered. I cannot imagine what single moms, people that work 2 jobs, immigrants and illiterate parents do (a LOT of Americans are illiterate).
I saw a post of yours that had to be about a year old last night when I was looking for information on some neighborhoods and at that time you said the administration in PG was bad AND the schools there were bad. So now you have a change or heart and want to go back to PG. That is cool. PG is not an option for me and I wish I had never mentioned Moco.(because of commuting) I like the area I am in and yes my daughter goes to school with brats but she likes her teachers and she is doing well. My son likes his HS and his school is not run down. All of Silver Spring (which includes far north Cloverly, and Hampshire Estates communities) still have good schools.
The OP started out with the topic of WHITE FLIGHTwhich no one has addressed yet!. This has become another Moco-vs-PG BS thread because coming from the Midwest either Moco nor PG are all that for the $400k+ you have to pay to still live in a piece of crap house. Yeah I am going to be pretty darn picky as a buyer because it does not make since that PG residents pay higher property taxes than Moco.

That is true that no one really tackled the issue of White Flight, and being that we're an interracial couple, I highly value diversity in the true meaning of the word. Just as I do not want my children attending schools that are 95% white, it also bothers me to think of my children attending schools that are 95% black as are many of those in Prince Georges County. In Fairfax County you often get more of a mix, and many schools are 20% Asian and/or 20% Hispanic, and so despite having only 5% Black or so, you've got that diversity there. I am trying hard to convince myself to stay in Prince Georges and raise my family here, I am leaning strongly towards Bowie, but then people like co-workers give me stern warnings about potentially declining property values and say "well you had better hope you really WILL be happy with the schools, because should you change your mind in 5yrs, you may not be able to sell". My baby is still some years away from being school-aged, but what scares me is that the schools will deterioate if lower-income people takeover Bowie, and then I'll be stuck wishing I had chosen Fairfax County from the start.

Thank you all for the insight, but buying a home for the 1st time is pretty scary, and they say LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION, so I just want to get this thing right.