Safe and descent cities in Montogomery county (Baltimore, Silver Spring: crime rate, house)

[imi orsós]

hy my name Imi from Hugary-Nagyatád city Mns adres: oimike1000@hotmail.com

[cpterp]

Despite what some are saying, most of Montgomery County is overall generally safe, although that seems to be a very relative word here. Just stay away from certain spots of Gaithersburg and Silver Spring, and if you want "ultimate safety" move to Potomac, Bethesda, or Chevy Chase (if you can afford it), or go to a more rural (another relative word) or outlying area such as Poolesville, Damacus, or Clarksburg.

I will admit though that the county does have an idiotic policy (this coming from a liberal) of requiring low-income housing in practically every development, as some others mentioned already, which is basically asking for crime.

[Mrs. 14th & You]

Originally Posted by cpterp

I will admit though that the county does have an idiotic policy (this coming from a liberal) of requiring low-income housing in practically every development, as some others mentioned already, which is basically asking for crime.

My statement has little to do with the topic at hand, but there are some bad assumptions being made here that I can not let stand.

As someone who has studied the issue of mixed-income housing in DC and been part of numerous salon-style discussions, it is not an idiotic policy. Warehousing the poor all together in sub-standard housing drives up crime. In this metropolitan statistical area, the median income is $99k/yr. We do not have enough housing that is "affordable" (no more than 1/3 of your monthly gross pay after debt servicing) for people making 80% of the median income. Many of our young professionals with no criminal backgrounds can not afford market rate housing.

Mont. Co. does require that developers either include low-income housing units in their plans or pay a fee to the government. This fee is supposed to help pay for other developments. Because of attitudes like those expressed here, many developers have opted to pay the fee rather than build the units. The result is that we have housing shortages. We also have several places in the country where two and three families are crammed into single family homes, which is often not the best situation for the children involved. If you want firefighters and teachers in your neighborhood, you'd do well to support affordable housing.

[tercel95]

Originally Posted by Mrs. 14th & You

My statement has little to do with the topic at hand, but there are some bad assumptions being made here that I can not let stand.

As someone who has studied the issue of mixed-income housing in DC and been part of numerous salon-style discussions, it is not an idiotic policy. Warehousing the poor all together in sub-standard housing drives up crime. In this metropolitan statistical area, the median income is $99k/yr. We do not have enough housing that is "affordable" (no more than 1/3 of your monthly gross pay after debt servicing) for people making 80% of the median income. Many of our young professionals with no criminal backgrounds can not afford market rate housing.

Mont. Co. does require that developers either include low-income housing units in their plans or pay a fee to the government. This fee is supposed to help pay for other developments. Because of attitudes like those expressed here, many developers have opted to pay the fee rather than build the units. The result is that we have housing shortages. We also have several places in the country where two and three families are crammed into single family homes, which is often not the best situation for the children involved. If you want firefighters and teachers in your neighborhood, you'd do well to support affordable housing.

I hear what you are saying about teachers and firefighters living in the area but you assume that people should be "entitled" to live in a certain area...

I was on that side when I was living in MD, I moved out at 18 and while making what I considered a decent salary I was forced to live in a crappy 1 bedroom apartment... But thats the breaks when I make more money I can live in a nicer area...

I spent a large portion of my childhood in Olney... While it may not be true 100% of the time the low income housing put in definitely brought the area down... Why should people be entitled to live there? People who moved to Olney years ago wanted to get away from the crime of the city, and now that most of Montgomery county is saturated with crime there is nowhere left for them to go...

I know that low-income does not neccesarily equal crime but a lot of times it does and people have to open their eyes and see that...

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by Mrs. 14th & You

My statement has little to do with the topic at hand, but there are some bad assumptions being made here that I can not let stand.

As someone who has studied the issue of mixed-income housing in DC and been part of numerous salon-style discussions, it is not an idiotic policy. Warehousing the poor all together in sub-standard housing drives up crime. In this metropolitan statistical area, the median income is $99k/yr. We do not have enough housing that is "affordable" (no more than 1/3 of your monthly gross pay after debt servicing) for people making 80% of the median income. Many of our young professionals with no criminal backgrounds can not afford market rate housing.

Mont. Co. does require that developers either include low-income housing units in their plans or pay a fee to the government. This fee is supposed to help pay for other developments. Because of attitudes like those expressed here, many developers have opted to pay the fee rather than build the units. The result is that we have housing shortages. We also have several places in the country where two and three families are crammed into single family homes, which is often not the best situation for the children involved. If you want firefighters and teachers in your neighborhood, you'd do well to support affordable housing.

I agree with what your saying and I wish it didn't cost an arm and a leg to live in Montgomery, but the people living in low-income housing in MoCo aren't "young professionals," they are transplants from SE DC.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by cpterp

the people living in low-income housing in MoCo aren't "young professionals," they are transplants from SE DC.

Well, first off, the insinuation being made here--that "transplants from SE DC" aren't wanted/don't belong in Montgomery County--is a rather unattractive sentiment. At the downtown law firm where I am currently employed, I personally work alongside several individuals who reside in southeast DC--not that you would ever know unless you asked them.

Secondly, as someone who lived and worked in Montgomery County for years, I can tell you that the notion that "young professionals" don't live in subsidized housing is patently untrue. Virtually half of the administrative staff in the professional firm I worked for who lived in MoCo lived in some form of county subsidized housing. Now, whether any of these individuals were "transplants from SE DC" I don't know--I never thought to inquire of their housing history.

This is precisely the type of thinking we need to avoid. And time and again it has been shown that the warehousing of poverty is the answer to nothing. The problems in MoCo reside not with the County's regulations that stipulate that residential developments contain a certain percentage of low-income housing, the problem is that too many developers simply "buy out" of the provision.

One final point: I now live in the Logan Circle neighborhood of DC, which includes many $1 million+ homes and is one of the most sought-after neighborhoods in the region, and witness far more property crime here than I ever experienced during all the years I lived in Gaithersburg.

[Mrs. 14th & You]

Originally Posted by cpterp

I agree with what your saying and I wish it didn't cost an arm and a leg to live in Montgomery, but the people living in low-income housing in MoCo aren't "young professionals," they are transplants from SE DC.

I grew up in Potomac, attended private school all my life, and graduated from college with a business degree. The salary for my first job was a third of area median income. This is well below the 50% AMI required for much subsidized housing. I was young and without kids, so I made it work. Even so, five years out of college, I still hadn't cleared 50% of AMI. Now that I'm in grad school, if it weren't for my spouse's income, I'd still qualify for subsidized housing.

Folks are right that no one is necessarily entitled to live in a certain area. Yet, you are in denial if you think that simply not offering subsidized housing keeps all the poor people out of Montgomery County.

If you think that traffic on 270 sucks now, wait until all of the social workers, secretaries, teachers, and retail salespeople have to commute from out-of-county to serve you. The vast majority of the working middle class are not criminals and are people who help to make your area diverse and vibrant.

[cpterp]

Okay, to Mr. and Mrs. "14th & You" I wrote that off the top of my head after a half a second of thought. I also think I was venting frustration, and calling the program "idiotic" was way too harsh. Let me first say that I am not an elitist, and I disagree with earlier posters who say that MoCo is virtually overun with crime (as you can see by my previous posts). There is a crime element in a few communities (something that is impossible to avoid with densely populated urban/suburban), and I do agree with previous posters that required low-income housing is a plausible culprit. I live in Germantown (which is an excellent CNN/Money top 100 community with relatively little crime), and I've seen and heard things that would support this.

The reason why Mont. Co. requires low-income housing, is to prevent the devlopment of wealthy, exclusive enclaves (which Potomac and Bethesda practically are already), and to encourage mixed income living. I agree with the general idea, but you can't ignore the obvious negative side-effects. As I said before, even with the low-income housing it's still super expensive to live in county. It's terrible that public servants can't afford to live in the county in which they work. The thing is that if you offer large amounts of low-income/subsidized housing, the crime rate will be affected all things held equal (it's simpple economics and sociology). The question then is "Is it worth it?" To tell the truth...I honestly don't know. I would have to look into specifics (locations, what exactly constitutes "low-income") and related statistics.

[tercel95]

I agree that "warehousing the poor" is not really a solution to anything but if you can't afford to live in a place like Olney that is the breaks... I just disagree with the sentiment that you should be entitled to live wherever you want... People that live in places like Olney, Bethesda, and Potomac worked hard to get there, and while I'm sure that they wouldn't mind young professionals moving in you have to admit that it often does bring less than desirable residents in... As I said I moved out when I was 18 and lived in one of the crappier areas of Southern MD because that was all I could afford and I accepted that... I know that it will be many years before I could afford to live in a place like Olney...

To Cpterp we disagree on this all of the time but allow me to explain my viewpoint... While I don't neccesarily think the Montgomery county is overrun with crime I like to apply the rule of proximity... In MO county there just aren't many places you can live where you are not right down the street from a rough area... Olney for instance seems like a really nice area but its right down the street from Aspen Hill, Wheaton and Silver Spring all of which I consider rough areas... There is no magic fence that keeps all of the crime out... I was a bit of a rough kid when I was growing up so I can attest to crime in the area...

Also a "safe place" to live is a relative term... There might be someone from rural Utah that moves to Suitland after being told its safe and absolutely flip out... Or you can take someone from SE DC and move them into suitland and they would think its great...

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by tercel95

I just disagree with the sentiment that you should be entitled to live wherever you want.

I don't believe that is the sentiment being expressed. Every city and locale in existence will have richer areas and poorer areas, of that fact there is no dispute. However, we're not talking about this at a neighborhood level; rather we're talking about an entire county with nearly a million residents. That encompasses a significant number of people. And if the cost of housing in the county becomes so high that only the affluent can afford to live there, the quality of life for everyone is depreciated.