Prince George's County (Baltimore, Bowie, College Park: loan, felony, home)

[liliblu]

The other side of the coin being a conservative or "libertarian" Sowell? This explains so much.

[fishfister]

Originally Posted by lscalder

Down grading someone's race does not help. Why not up lift the lost youth instead of name calling. Name calling is for children, THis reminds me of what Oprah did.She open a school in a country where most have already wrote off and most would point fingers but she see they are lost and need help. Now she could just called them black millitant children and leave it at that but would that help.
truth hurts; Would you feel better if a white child bullied your child instead of a black child. For me instead of your race and if you do bully then I might consider you a millitant child but I would not just start calling black children millitant. WHen my son start school maybe a white child instead of a black child might bully him then do i say per truth data only black children are bullies and white child are not. Hell no. This is the problem with America no matter how blacks try no matter how educated we get, no matter how much money or wealth we might have. We will always hear those words.
The same for Barack Obama it hurts me when I see this man who is well educated,who have a wonderful familiy, who just want the same American dream as another white man but yet to many American he is just that Black man who no matter what he do or say even if he is the better candidate have a less chance of winning why? Because he is a black man first. The media forgets or people forget that he is educated,wealthy,have a wonderful family,raising wonderful children,have never commit a crime but yet he is not good enough.

Truthhurts: You love to point fingers and call other names such as Black millitant but the truth is no matter how educated you are, no matter where you live or how big or small your house is. No matter how you dress if its always business suits or whatever it is. You will still be seen as another ***** and thats it. I remember reading a post on the forum where a poster mention How much he/she hate seeing these black families on TV. The poster mention the Rev Run familiy and other black families who have thier own show He said all blacks are all the same regardless of how much money they have. Here is a family who are raising wonderful children but yet its not good enough so I see why alot of these inner city children careless. They feel as if no matter what they do in life or how they try to separate themselves from the other misbehave children they will all be judge the exact same. WHy is it that white children can be themselves but Black children have to change so we can be accept by whites. Do white chage for us hell no. Are whites better then us by what you write Truthhurts it seems you believe so.

Yow! I was going to refrain from this thread forever more but Truth told the truth. Me, the white guy, has been hinting around this at times without being so direct. I objected to his posts of $$$$ because it doesn't matter if those like Iscalder continue typing in ebonics while justifying her every action by her $150K salary at 23 years of age. Do you want a pin or a collar to stick it on?
White people are in the same f***ing boat as you are honey and we are all without paddles. Stop your militant racial crap. It's not OK no matter who you are. Statistics say a black kid is going to bully or kill your kid, read them. A white kid may never have that close of contact with him, especially with your attitude.
I have an American Staffordshire terrier dog, wrongly classified as a pit-bull by the anal county council. I got him in 1996 before the moron Ike Gordine introduced the bill for BSL. My dog is a show dog, very well trained and is friendly with everyone in my neighborhood. I have an alarm system on my vehicle as well as my house/shed because the teenage rats in my area steal and B&E. Which is more is more of a nuisance and dangerous? If you can't train a dog you can't raise a kid and vice versa.
I am glad all of my neighbors - black - are of my age and their kids are grown and gone. I am quite sure they echo my sentiment.
Truth, I don't see you as another *****. I don't know what ***** is but if Iscalder is dancing around "N" there are people of your own race that will before I. Apparently, she does.

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by liliblu

The other side of the coin being a conservative or "libertarian" Sowell? This explains so much.

Greetings are you a conservative and of which party?

[fishfister]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

We are agree on this point Fish. Schooling is a two part agenda and in fact i believe the most important component in PGC is the parent piece. Unlike inner city areas that are rought with terrible funding PGC has the funding, but is still lacking the parental involvement piece.

Just a bit of background i moved from a predomintely affluent area with high performing schools to PGC. My mother was very active in the PTA in the other school district and was totally shocked at the lack of interest most parents within the county showed in the PGC PTA. I'll never forget how she would constantly complain about being the only black parent to show up for Parent Teacher nights.

Now, while many think this is a "black issue" it is more of an economic issue, that ties into the economic dynamics of most black families in PGC. Parents, that are educated, are usually more likely to be involved in the education of their children. Now, clearly that's not always true, but more often than not. Parents that are uneducated are less likely to be invovled in their childrens academic lives, while again that's not 100% true it is much more likely. To note many of the children were working class and some from very poor families both black and white (the majority obviously being black). Most of the parents that showed up were the parents that were from the more affluent areas and at that time most of them happend to be white. I also noticed that in high school many of the more affluent kids attended Private Schools, so the high schools were packed full of a majority poor and working class children and if you were affluent and did not get into ERHS Science and Tech program you were most likely in a private high school.

Now in reference to what you're saying I tend to agree. The black poor and lower middle class, which is the majority of PGC do not seem to value education and sadly to say since there children make up the majority of the Public School Students that awful attitude seems to rub off on a lot of the weaker willed smaller majority of middle and upper middle class students that attend the public schools.

I guess the question people have been asking is how do you fix that culture and make them understand that their responsible. I mean the folly is that these same parents are the one's that will call a teacher racist when their child does receive a grade he/she deserves, but at the same token expect the school system to be the only one providing an active educational experience.

I think they should make PTA meetings mandatory and a parent must attend at least 80% for theirto pass on to the next grade. They should also redistrict the schools and build more of them. PGC needs to attempt to get the same quality of certified teachers Montgomery and other counties have. They should also stop busing and use the additional tax payer dollars to attract those better qualified teachers.

I also think PGC should perhaps allow competition amongst its public schools via its private schools. They also could form county wide public school partnerships with major fortune 500 companies, because its a majority black county they could force a lot of companies to provide training to high school students to avoid being labeld "racist" and uncaring(Use the Jesse Jackson tactics to help better the education). They could also provide mandatory pre-school and head start programs for all children. I'd also advise for year round schooling from grades 1-8, so that these students are not extremely far behind once high school starts. Most of what i've mentioned are things the county government can do to incentivise parents to become more active, but in the end its a choice and parents need to make the right choices.

I also think there is a culture problem that needs to be addressed. For instance the getting good grades is "acting white" stuff. It seems that this pseudo non authentic black culture comes to light around 5-8 grades and these children start laching on to all of these negative ideas that they believe describes "black culture" and indentifies them within society. I think a lot of the "militant" parents help keep this "redneck culture" going amongst blacks.

Truth, one's race nor economic class has anything to do with how children are trained as children and hopefully continue to hold to those teachings as they grow older. It is how it is instilled in them and whether or not they have the self discipline to carry that with them for the rest of their lives. I mentioned my dog before - I taught him hand signals at a very young age. At age 11 he still knows them.
There are very poor families on any piece of land in this country who instill values into their children that the rich kids never learn. This is emphasized by the "spoiled brat" syndrome we see in public or on TV. As far as PTA meetings, my folks were always there. Every parent should do so. Those that claim "I have a life" need to realize their children ARE their lives.

My father was a training instructor in the Air Force therefore, I did not grow up in an affluent atmosphere. He was rather strict and I appreciate that now. I see now where others did not have that rigidity in their early years. Discipline should be thought of as education and not punishment. I remember corporal punishment in the schools when I was young. Yes, I got my share of spankings but never felt "dissed". I knew I screwed up and got caught.

If one never learns self discipline one will never make it through higher education. I was a subsystems engineer for many years in the space field with some college - for programming and writing, a lot of technical school and plenty of NASA and JHU schooling. I have the equivalent to a BS through work experience and can work anywhere in my field of expertise. My folks put that self discipline into my siblings and I.

[liliblu]

Originally Posted by TuborgP

Greetings are you a conservative and of which party?

I'm not politically conservative. But you probably guessed that already.

Do you really take Thomas Sowell seriously?

[liliblu]

Truth I forgot you referenced Thomas Sowell when refering to "militant blacks". I remembered after TurboP mentioned him in his recent post. I am afraid I blocked out what you wrote before. I have never agreed with Sowell's writings but I understand your mind set now.

I just wanted to add that this quote is one of the many reasons I find Sowell a joke " Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill: "My theory is that Clarence's problem arose precisely because he did not sexually harass Anita Hill."

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by liliblu

Truth I forgot you referenced Thomas Sowell when refering to "militant blacks". I remembered after TurboP mentioned him in his recent post. I am afraid I blocked out what you wrote before. I have never agreed with Sowell's writings but I understand your mind set now.

I just wanted to add that this quote is one of the many reasons I find Sowell a joke " Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill: "My theory is that Clarence's problem arose precisely because he did not sexually harass Anita Hill."

I think Sowell is a credible economist, I do however feel his status in someways has been elevated because he is a Black Conservative. He does have merit as being part of legitimate range of economic thought. I would concur with your statement that Clarence's problem arose because he did not sexually harass Anita Hill. I am not sure your exact interpretation but I will concur with your statement. I consider myself to be a fiscal moderate/conservative and a social moderate. I certainly rank Colin Powell and Obama way ahead of Jackson and Sharpton.

[truthhurts]

Originally Posted by fishfister

Yow! I was going to refrain from this thread forever more but Truth told the truth. Me, the white guy, has been hinting around this at times without being so direct. I objected to his posts of $$$$ because it doesn't matter if those like Iscalder continue typing in ebonics while justifying her every action by her $150K salary at 23 years of age. Do you want a pin or a collar to stick it on?
White people are in the same f***ing boat as you are honey and we are all without paddles. Stop your militant racial crap. It's not OK no matter who you are. Statistics say a black kid is going to bully or kill your kid, read them. A white kid may never have that close of contact with him, especially with your attitude.
I have an American Staffordshire terrier dog, wrongly classified as a pit-bull by the anal county council. I got him in 1996 before the moron Ike Gordine introduced the bill for BSL. My dog is a show dog, very well trained and is friendly with everyone in my neighborhood. I have an alarm system on my vehicle as well as my house/shed because the teenage rats in my area steal and B&E. Which is more is more of a nuisance and dangerous? If you can't train a dog you can't raise a kid and vice versa.
I am glad all of my neighbors - black - are of my age and their kids are grown and gone. I am quite sure they echo my sentiment.
Truth, I don't see you as another *****. I don't know what ***** is but if Iscalder is dancing around "N" there are people of your own race that will before I. Apparently, she does.

Fist, here's my problem with you. You seem to want to lump Iscalder in with the black upper class. I can tell you from experience she would not even be consider part of the black upper class by other black people. The social black upper class and the economic black upper class are completely two different things. For instance Allen Iverson and Jay Z are in the black economic upper class, but would never be considerd part of the social black upper class values group. While there are a large portion of blacks in both. Iscalder is certainly not a member of that group. Being a black male who's a fourth generation college graduate i can assure she carries with her lower class black values not even remotely associated with black upper class values, so stop attempting to use her as a guage to put down the black upper class, which is exactly what you're doing. This is like me saying because Rosanne Barr, Britney Spears, and Linsay Lohan are rich they are part of the white upper class and therefore based on their actions i'm going to gross generalize the white upper class. While they are part of the white economic upper class they are most certainly not part of the white upper class socially. Social standing is what really determines the value system. Now that is not to say there are not blacks that move from poverty into the social upper class, but that's because they accept our value system and play by our rules.

I can tell from experience, that most black families that are in both the social and economic upper class highly value education and are probably some of the smartest most educated people you'll meet. They range from being extremely liberal to being extremely conservative, but ebonics or redneck speech is not part of their vocabulary nor is allowing their young children to listen rap music at the age of 2. Please do not confuse a poor or middle class black that has worked hard to make it to the level, but still lacks any of the social values of the black upper class. If you're using Iscalder as a great representation or measuring stick I could go through a list as long as a football field to show she not even remotely representative of most blacks that make over 150k and consider themselves upper class.

Now, i'm sure many will react with how snuddy and snobby bs, but this was merely to prove a point nothing more nothing less. Yes, there are blacks in PG County who live in very nice neighborhoods, that have a bad values system, but they are by no means the norm of families that live in those neighborhoods, so my point was simply to call fish out on attempting to use the anamolies like Iscalder as the overall representation of that community. That is dirty dishonest and wreaks of racism. Similiar to even with money "they all must be alike."

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

Fist, here's my problem with you. You seem to want to lump Iscalder in with the black upper class. I can tell you from experience she would not even be consider part of the black upper class by other black people. The social black upper class and the economic black upper class are completely two different things. For instance Allen Iverson and Jay Z are in the black economic upper class, but would never be considerd part of the social black upper class values group. While there are a large portion of blacks in both. Iscalder is certainly not a member of that group. Being a black male who's a fourth generation college graduate i can assure she carries with her lower class black values not even remotely associated with black upper class values, so stop attempting to use her as a guage to put down the black upper class, which is exactly what you're doing. This is like me saying because Rosanne Barr, Britney Spears, and Linsay Lohan are rich they are part of the white upper class and therefore based on their actions i'm going to gross generalize the white upper class. While they are part of the white economic upper class they are most certainly not part of the white upper class socially. Social standing is what really determines the value system. Now that is not to say there are not blacks that move from poverty into the social upper class, but that's because they accept our value system and play by our rules.

I can tell from experience, that most black families that are in both the social and economic upper class highly value education and are probably some of the smartest most educated people you'll meet. They range from being extremely liberal to being extremely conservative, but ebonics or redneck speech is not part of their vocabulary nor is allowing their young children to listen rap music at the age of 2. Please do not confuse a poor or middle class black that has worked hard to make it to the level, but still lacks any of the social values of the black upper class. If you're using Iscalder as a great representation or measuring stick I could go through a list as long as a football field to show she not even remotely representative of most blacks that make over 150k and consider themselves upper class.

Now, i'm sure many will react with how snuddy and snobby bs, but this was merely to prove a point nothing more nothing less. Yes, there are blacks in PG County who live in very nice neighborhoods, that have a bad values system, but they are by no means the norm of families that live in those neighborhoods, so my point was simply to call fish out on attempting to use the anamolies like Iscalder as the overall representation of that community. That is dirty dishonest and wreaks of racism. Similiar to even with money "they all must be alike."

Hats off to you Truth. I consider us both to be smart but you beat me on this one. Darn if I could figure her out.

[truthhurts]

Originally Posted by TuborgP

Hats off to you Truth. I consider us both to be smart but you beat me on this one. Darn if I could figure her out.

Turborg, you know i have nothing against either Fish or Iscalder. It is not a personal thing. I just think they have extreme view either way. They tend to not stick to the facts.

I'm not trying to put her down. I'm saying she is successful, but i'll stress a 23 that makes 150k a year is much different than a 33 year old that makes 150k a year.

I think as she gets older she'll also realize a mother that is 23 years of age is much different than a mother that is 33 years of age.

However, with Fish i'm not sure how old he is, but he's just so bitter and in some cases rightfully so, but he would rather lump us all in one basket and paint us red and call it a day. However, it is just not that simple. What one family experiences in a county with almost 1 million people is going to be totally different than what another family experiences and he cannot seem to get himself pas that reality.

It's like just because you live in a crime infested hell hole does not mean every last person in the county lives in a crime infested hell hole. Example Homeland is a wealthy upscale affluent neighborhood in the city of Baltimore, that has no crime and no real homicide rate, but if you go 3 blocks down the street there's a murder a minute.

In closing every now and then i find myself agreeing with some of what they say, but overall they are far too extreme and militant for me.

I guess next i'll have to start a thread to explain what i mean by militant.

Big props on the Dr. Sowell post. I only wish more minorities went against the status quo and utilized their right to free choice and free thought. The only way to attain true progress is through free thought and challenging old ideas with new one's. The problem is it has become a business and there's too much to loose for those maintaing the old ideas, but knowing that there are conservatives and moderates like you and I that just happen to be miniorities is showing there is change coming. If true change had arrived in PGC Micheal Steele would be representing the state in Congress.